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There's a couple of Feats in Ultimate Magic which seem to cover close to the exact same ground as a couple of other Feats in the APG...
Extra Cantrips or Orisons (UM page 150) Vs Expanded Arcana (APG page 159)
and...
Spontaneous Metafocus (UM page 157) Vs Preferred Spell (APG page 167)
In each case these Feats are so close, is there any good reason both are needed? Or am I missing something obvious here?
Extra Cantrips and Orisons appears completely redundant.
Granted, Spontaneous Metafocus provides half of what Preferred Spell provides, at an easier prerequisite for spontaneous casters (and the other half - the ability to cast the spell spontaneously - is wasted on them), but still, doesn't that mean Preferred Spell is twice as good a Feat (for prepared casters) as Spontaneous Metafocus, with just a little higher prerequisites?
This has been already pointed out and no answer has been given, AFAIK.
Cool... wouldn't happen to have a thread-link for me?
No sorry :(
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But don't the prepared spellcasters get all their cantrips or orisons at first level anyway (okay, barring a few opposition school cantrips for Wizards, but that's a few pitiful gp to put right)..? Not sure if my 'bubble' has been 'burst'... but if anyone can think up a legitimate reason for that Feat to exist I'd be interested (otherwise I wouldn't have asked...).
Hate to burst your bubble, but Extra Cantrips or Orisons isn't actually redundant. It may have the exact same function as Expanded Arcana... but a a prepared spellcaster doesn't have access to said feat, so ECoO is the only option.
Does not work that way, regretfully - Extra Cantrips or Orisons adds 2 known 0th level spells. Which is of little use to Wizard who can add them to his spellbook from a scroll (there is quite common reading of all-cantrips-in-spellbook as all-cantrips-in-the-core-rules-in-spellbook-everything-beyond-core-learn-no rmally) but still has to prepare within daily spell slot. And number of those is fixed.
Preferred Spell is for prepared casters, Spontaneous Metafocus is for spontaneous castrs. Not redundant, just for different types of characters.
Extra Cantrips or Orisons (UM page 150) Vs Expanded Arcana (APG page 159)
In each case these Feats are so close, is there any good reason both are needed? Or am I missing something obvious here?
Extra Cantrips and Orisons appears completely redundant.
Sorcerer's, Bards, etc can't take Expanded Arcana...so they have Extra Cantrips and Orisons.
Though reading Expanded Arcana I don't know who can actualy use it...
Extra Cantrips or Orisons (UM page 150) Vs Expanded Arcana (APG page 159)
In each case these Feats are so close, is there any good reason both are needed? Or am I missing something obvious here?
Extra Cantrips and Orisons appears completely redundant.
Sorcerer's, Bards, etc can't take Expanded Arcana...so they have Extra Cantrips and Orisons.
Though reading Expanded Arcana I don't know who can actualy use it...
Umm... Sorcerers, bards, and the like are the only ones who can take Expanded Arcana.
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Preferred Spell is for prepared casters, Spontaneous Metafocus is for spontaneous castrs. Not redundant, just for different types of characters.
Which is fine and all... but Prefered Spell is twice the Feat Spontaneous Metafocus is - Preferred Spell not only allows a prepared spellcaster to cast a spell spontaneously, but throws in a Spontaneous Metafocus Feat for that self-same spell for free. How can that be balanced?
Maybe if Spontaneous Metafocus also allowed you to 'recharge' the spell you select using a pearl of power, as well as its usual effect, then things would be a little more even?
Preferred Spell is for prepared casters, Spontaneous Metafocus is for spontaneous castrs. Not redundant, just for different types of characters.Which is fine and all... but Prefered Spell is twice the Feat Spontaneous Metafocus is - Preferred Spell not only allows a prepared spellcaster to cast a spell spontaneously, but throws in a Spontaneous Metafocus Feat for that self-same spell for free. How can that be balanced?
Maybe if Spontaneous Metafocus also allowed you to 'recharge' the spell you select using a pearl of power, as well as its usual effect, then things would be a little more even?
It's balanced because it a) only works for one spell, b)it's only a small taste of what spontaneous casters can do and c) as you yourself said, it has higher prerequisites, which means it's harder and takes a longer time to get.