Qi |
Well I've got a "pantheon" i guess of gods.
Basically you have one god for each of the four elements (Earth Air, fire water)
four gods of each of the complimentary elements (combining two elements that don't directly oppose each other.) Magnum, Lighting, Ice, Plant
2 for opposing elements, Mist and Erosion
2 for the conflicting elements Light and Darkness
1 for the balance element.. Chaos.
I've got quite of bit of it in my head.
the problem i see comes from not knowing where this adventure is going, and what directions players might want to direct play. After all, our characters are only level 1, so things could change a heck of a lot.
Do we really want to shut ourselves off from all the possibilities that exist with the standard pantheon? With the current system in place we have the benefit of books of demons, devils, angels; of classes, prestige classes; locations, magic items, spells, etc -- all of which become non-sensical. changing this aspect, to me, is a substantial modification to the pathfinder universe.
i'm certainly open to modifications, but it seems to me like something like that would be best reserved for a campaign where changing the gods is central to the plot.
If we're doing it just to mix things up, my vote is to keep them because we will be gutting a ton of useful stuff in exchange for very little (or nothing ?) by way of benefit.
Patcher |
Ævux wrote:Well I've got a "pantheon" i guess of gods.
Basically you have one god for each of the four elements (Earth Air, fire water)
four gods of each of the complimentary elements (combining two elements that don't directly oppose each other.) Magnum, Lighting, Ice, Plant
2 for opposing elements, Mist and Erosion
2 for the conflicting elements Light and Darkness
1 for the balance element.. Chaos.
I've got quite of bit of it in my head.
the problem i see comes from not knowing where this adventure is going, and what directions players might want to direct play. After all, our characters are only level 1, so things could change a heck of a lot.
Do we really want to shut ourselves off from all the possibilities that exist with the standard pantheon? With the current system in place we have the benefit of books of demons, devils, angels; of classes, prestige classes; locations, magic items, spells, etc -- all of which become non-sensical. changing this aspect, to me, is a substantial modification to the pathfinder universe.
True, but what aspect is directly tied to the Pathfinder Pantheon? Removing the pantheon does not remove spells, demons, devils, angels, classes, prestige classes, items... it would only change the fluff. I can see your argument, but at the same time I don't see the ties to the actual Pantheon, that could just as easily be removed without massive consequences.
Or am I missing something? We could always add pantheons in the worst case scenario and just have fifteen of them for different parts of the world - much like in older times with Norse pantheons, greek pantheons, ect.
If it really is a problem for you, though, we can always run with the basic pathfinder Pantheon, though this wouldn't be the Pathfinder world.
Qi |
Qi wrote:We'll see what happens, really. Problem with having a pantheon is that it eventually begs the question of "why aren't the gods doing anything when the world is collapsing?" and such. I for one am tempted to have divine powers be granted through willpower.about the pantheon, i suggest we have a traditional pantheon of the standard Pathfinder gods. It seems like a ton of work to create our own, and there doesn't seem to be a reason to tweak them. the fact that we have a cleric makes it complex to create our own.
my two cents
yeah, a basic problem of evil issue. Perhaps we are puppets being used by one or some of the Gods to prevent it from happening.
The easiest answer to this question is that some gods are trying to destroy it, and other might be trying to prevent it. This problem of evil issue is only a real problem in a monotheistic setting where there is a single all-powerful entity that as considered benevolent.
but it is your campaign, of course -- do whatever you wish. I am just trying to point out the sheer amount of material we lose and put it in context of what we stand to gain.
Qi |
Qi wrote:Ævux wrote:Well I've got a "pantheon" i guess of gods.
Basically you have one god for each of the four elements (Earth Air, fire water)
four gods of each of the complimentary elements (combining two elements that don't directly oppose each other.) Magnum, Lighting, Ice, Plant
2 for opposing elements, Mist and Erosion
2 for the conflicting elements Light and Darkness
1 for the balance element.. Chaos.
I've got quite of bit of it in my head.
the problem i see comes from not knowing where this adventure is going, and what directions players might want to direct play. After all, our characters are only level 1, so things could change a heck of a lot.
Do we really want to shut ourselves off from all the possibilities that exist with the standard pantheon? With the current system in place we have the benefit of books of demons, devils, angels; of classes, prestige classes; locations, magic items, spells, etc -- all of which become non-sensical. changing this aspect, to me, is a substantial modification to the pathfinder universe.
True, but what aspect is directly tied to the Pathfinder Pantheon? Removing the pantheon does not remove spells, demons, devils, angels, classes, prestige classes, items... it would only change the fluff. I can see your argument, but at the same time I don't see the ties to the actual Pantheon, that could just as easily be removed without massive consequences.
Or am I missing something? We could always add pantheons in the worst case scenario and just have fifteen of them for different parts of the world - much like in older times with Norse pantheons, greek pantheons, ect.
If it really is a problem for you, though, we can always run with the basic pathfinder Pantheon, though this wouldn't be the Pathfinder world.
sounds good to me - if nothing is changed except the names of the gods and a description of what they are like, but everything else remains, then cool.
We were throwing around possibility of having no gods at all, also, which seemed very problematic to me as well.
I was imagining losing Paladins, having the alignments become nonsensical, losing all angels, demons, devils, the sense of Holy versus Evil, etc. . .
But this is your world, and I'm happy to play in it however you build it
Patcher |
Ginormous tree
I suppose I don't quite see what material we lose by removing a pantheon - apart from deities that can interfere with the world. We'd have to redo some fluff, certainly.
I suppose what we could do is have each plot crystal correspond to a deity in the Pathfinder pantheon (or some other pantheon like Norse or Egypt or Greek or...whatever we go with) - to give a kind of tie-in. Of course, this is meta-knowledge.
PArt of the reason why I'm running improv homebrew is to make up stuff on the spot - and going along with a pre-existing Pantheon does restrict things (but also makes it more difficult - I'm aware). Which is why I'm being so ... hm. Difficult, heh.
EDIT: Responding to your more concise points. Concept of good versus evil is part of fantasy and in essence you are the good guys but considered evil by the world. Paladins would be champions of justice and good, which doesn't really require a deity as much as conviction and belief in the abstract concept (or that's how I'd imagine a deity-less paladin);
Angels, demons and devils could easily become their own "races" so to speak, ancient civilizations and such. I agree that without deities the flavour, so to speak, does get lost slightly with what one would consider an angel, or a demon - in return, they'd be more individual. This could work well, if done well, otherwise it would be awful.
Alignments are sorta addressed; it would take away from the lawful and chaotic axis, at least, yet the basic premise is good and evil, and being in the unfortunate spot of being good but considered evil.
Holy versus Unholy/evil, that I can agree would be lost, yet I never got quite the feel of that from the Pathfinder pantheon in the first place. It plays so much on the grey morality from what I've read that only two gods seem to be perfectly nestled into pure good and evil, and that's Shelyn and Rovagug - while holy and unholy are either that, or a different concept that I would consider a bit too much like "righteousness" and "just cause", which have no objective definition.
Of course, this is all my opinion. I do love the Pathfinder pantheon, I just wanted to get away from Golarion for a homebrew campaign.
Qi |
Qi wrote:Ginormous tree
I suppose I don't quite see what material we lose by removing a pantheon - apart from deities that can interfere with the world. We'd have to redo some fluff, certainly.
I suppose what we could do is have each plot crystal correspond to a deity in the Pathfinder pantheon (or some other pantheon like Norse or Egypt or Greek or...whatever we go with) - to give a kind of tie-in. Of course, this is meta-knowledge.
PArt of the reason why I'm running improv homebrew is to make up stuff on the spot - and going along with a pre-existing Pantheon does restrict things (but also makes it more difficult - I'm aware). Which is why I'm being so ... hm. Difficult, heh.
I see your point - sound great. My concerns have been addressed, and I don't think it will be a problem.
Patcher |
Patcher wrote:I see your point - sound great. My concerns have been addressed, and I don't think it will be a problem.Qi wrote:Ginormous tree
I suppose I don't quite see what material we lose by removing a pantheon - apart from deities that can interfere with the world. We'd have to redo some fluff, certainly.
I suppose what we could do is have each plot crystal correspond to a deity in the Pathfinder pantheon (or some other pantheon like Norse or Egypt or Greek or...whatever we go with) - to give a kind of tie-in. Of course, this is meta-knowledge.
PArt of the reason why I'm running improv homebrew is to make up stuff on the spot - and going along with a pre-existing Pantheon does restrict things (but also makes it more difficult - I'm aware). Which is why I'm being so ... hm. Difficult, heh.
I gave some more concise musings on my thoughts earlier - though I think tying deities to the plot crystals would be easier, while at the same time giving freedom. Could also call them "spirits" instead.
Lucca Dante |
Hm- I'd have to have a Spirit or deity or alter my backstory (albeit minority). 'cause, to have a church to be an inquisitor of, you generally have to have something to worship.
For roleplaying reasons, will people be including their personalities and backstory notes under their aliases? To make the 'knowing each other previously part' a bit easier to role-play at first.
Lucca Dante |
As for how I know the others, I was thinking that I might share a dorm with Coross and Skender. Lucca came to the University because he's trying to track down the source of the destruction that threatened his sanity, and sharing a dorm with two 'insane' people would certainly bring that to his mind- and then there's that various other people also have had run-ins with whatever's going wrong or have been affected by it. Nosy by nature, he'd investigate, and so strike up acquaintances. (Of course, this means that I have to remember the important parts of other people's backstories. I'll manage).
As for the campaign trait, I think that could be his contact/allegiance with the entity that he came in contact with due to the fiasco with the crystal or crystal shard or taint or whatever, which the GM would control. There wouldn't be concrete bonuses; just whatever the DM deems appropriate in a given situation. I was thinking of this entity as a sort of outsider that wants the crystals destroyed- of course, it'd have its own agenda besides. I'd sort of developed a personality while thinking about it;
Lucca is only just exploring the possibilities that his association with the entity could open up; he may take levels in oracle or something to reflect his growing cooperation with it. The more he levels up, the more this could become like possession- it nearly was at first- and this would have some interesting roleplaying opportunities. Maybe they'll even strike up something like a partnership at high levels, as the outsider further influences Lucca's identity and capabilities. Right now it's just a voice in his head, and only when it thinks such communication isn't overly risky. The outsider is a a trickster, and the only thing that Lucca would be sure of at this point, and after they learn about the crystals, is that it wants him to go destroy them. It would need a name. Blatant unoriginality, but Lucca's given it the name "Loki". And as Lucca can't possibly know of the Norse pantheon, he can't be blamed for such a lame idea :)
In summary, Lucca is being influenced (and talked to) by an outsider he came in contact with during some event in his backstory, linked to the crystals. Somehow.
There's... a lot of insanity in this group.
Yucale |
And this Outsider could also be the father that left me and my mother. A few memory modifications would do the trick.
I think mine is the least likely, although the combination of all of these would provide a reason for all of us to have some sort of an affinity to each other.
Wouldn't that make you a half something-or-other?
Skender Ruggova |
Skender Ruggova wrote:Wouldn't that make you a half something-or-other?And this Outsider could also be the father that left me and my mother. A few memory modifications would do the trick.
I think mine is the least likely, although the combination of all of these would provide a reason for all of us to have some sort of an affinity to each other.
Didn't think about that. >.> I need to think these things through more.
Yucale |
Yucale wrote:Didn't think about that. >.> I need to think these things through more.Skender Ruggova wrote:Wouldn't that make you a half something-or-other?And this Outsider could also be the father that left me and my mother. A few memory modifications would do the trick.
I think mine is the least likely, although the combination of all of these would provide a reason for all of us to have some sort of an affinity to each other.
But your father could be possessed, influenced, or something, by the outsider. Sort of like Lucca is.
DM Stompinator |
Zachary McDonald |
Sorry I haven't posted in a while. Work and whatnot.
Cliche-wise, the Brooding Hero will often be friends with a small creature, often cute, creature.
So if you would like, since we are both strange people, we could actually be friends.
I like this idea. Since you are the teacher of a required class (unless I am totally confused) that could be where we met, and we clicked because we are both so different from normal people. As for other tie-ins, I'm kinda stuck for ideas.
I gave some more concise musings on my thoughts earlier - though I think tying deities to the plot crystals would be easier, while at the same time giving freedom. Could also call them "spirits" instead.
If each crystal is linked to a diety, I do dread the day when I have to get around to destroying the crystal of my own deity.
Anyway, about the campaign trait, I'm thinking, because I would be studying demons to better understand my own powers, maybe +2 on Knowledge (religion) checks to identify strengths and weaknesses of specific demons. That work?
harmor |
I've been reading all your posts and you guys are posting feverishly. I work full-time and can only dedicate an hour or so a day to the campaign.
If that's ok then and you're still willing to add a 7th member then I would like to make a Human Cleric - a Divine Researcher in the Arcane Arts. Domains Knowledge and Artifice (Construct Subdomain from the APG).
Clerics don't need a deity to function in Pathfinder. So having a 'like minded being' (aka "spirit"), is all that is necessary and could work in this world.
Relation to Ævux - Darche Schneider (Felpurr Alchemist) - a fellow researcher at the academy. He and I bumped in the hallway when we noticed a small sample of the crystals we were carrying started to "interact". We took each other aside and have discussed the origins for the past few years. Darche introduced me to Frum Cruss, his gnome friend.
Relation to Edgar Lamoureux - Skender Ruggova (Human Soulknife) - we crossed paths when he injured himself. While he was under my I couldn't help notice he had a small crystal in his possessions. We since have discussed our research.
Saint Caleth - Coross Kelson (Human Magus) - I being a researcher in both Religious and Arcane arts, Coross is a favored student of mine. A few months ago the topic of crystals came up. After class though Coross and I discussed further in the subject until I let slip about a fact only he would know about the crystals. Since then we have been in constant communication sharing what we have learned though our different fields of research.
Qi - Frum Cruss (Gnome Rogue) (Alchemical Prodigy Trait) - Originally introduced by Darche, whom he originally sought and discussed the crystals with. Frum now confides in me with the Religious aspects of the crystals. That and he's seems to be accident prone - I seem to keep finding him in the infirmary where I spend my hours when not in class or researching on a variety of other subjects.
Shane Gifford - Zachary McDonald(Tiefling Sorcerer) - Arcane student interested in being a clerical acolyte (since he expressed an interest in multi-classing to cleric). We discuss the arcane and religious interaction the crystals have.
Yucala - Lucca (Human Inquisitor) - we crossed paths when someone stole one of my books with notes about the crystal. Lucca tracked down the thief only after reading my notes on the subject. We have since been in contact at the Academy.
=================
Campaign Trait: Accomplished Bookworm
Category: Campaign
Requirements: Int 15, 1 rank Profession: Librarian
You are an accomplished researcher. As such you have the innate ability to research extract facts other may have missed when using books and libraries.
Benefit: You increase the circumstance bonus gained from books and libraries by 2. Additionally the time it takes you to benefit from a book or library is halved (minimum 1 full round).
Normal: 1d4 full rounds to search a book to gain a +2 circumstance bonus
==============
Male Human (Taldan) Cleric 1
LN Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +0; Senses Perception +3
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 10, touch 10, flat-footed 10
hp 8 (1d8)
Fort +2, Ref +0, Will +5
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 30 ft.
Spell-Like Abilities Artificer's Touch (6/day), Lore Keeper (At will)
Cleric Spells Known (CL 1, 0 melee touch, 0 ranged touch):
1 (2/day) Comprehend Languages, Bless, Command (DC 14)
0 (at will) Stabilize, Read Magic, Detect Magic
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 14
Base Atk +0; CMB +0; CMD 10
Feats Scribe Scroll, Selective Channeling
Traits Caretaker, Focused Mind
Skills Heal +8, Knowledge: Arcana +7, Knowledge: History +7, Knowledge: Religion +7, Knowledge: The Planes +7, Profession: Librarian +7, Spellcraft +7
Languages Common, Draconic, Terran, Undercommon
SQ Aura (Ex), Channel Positive Energy 1d6 (5/day) (DC 12) (Su), Cleric Domain: Construct, Cleric Domain: Knowledge, Knowledge Variant Channeling (±1 Sacred), Spontaneous Casting
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Artificer's Touch (1d6+0) (6/day) (Sp) - 0/6
Channel Positive Energy 1d6 (5/day) (DC 12) (Su) - 0/5
--------------------
SPECIAL ABILITIES
--------------------
Artificer's Touch (1d6+0) (6/day) (Sp) Melee touch attack deals 1d6+0 damage to objects or constructs, bypassing 1 hardness.
Aura (Ex) The Cleric has an aura corresponding to his deity's alignment.
Channel Positive Energy 1d6 (5/day) (DC 12) (Su) A good cleric can channel positive energy to heal the living and injure the undead; an evil cleric can channel negative energy to injure the living and heal the undead.
Cleric Domain: Construct Associated Domain: Artifice
Cleric Domain: Knowledge Granted Powers: You are a scholar and a sage of legends. In addition, you treat all Knowledge skills as class skills.
Focused Mind +2 to Concentration checks
Knowledge Variant Channeling (±1 Sacred) Knowledge & Perception bonus/Intelligence damage
Lore Keeper (At will) (Sp) By touch, learn about a creature with a Knowledge check result of 19.
Selective Channeling Exclude targets from the area of your Channel Energy.
Spontaneous Casting The Cleric can convert stored spells into Cure or Inflict spells.
--------------------
Rafael Ler'it is a researcher and under-professor at the academy. At 28 he is an accomplished librarian in religious, arcane, history, and the planes. He stumbled upon the crystals while exploring the ruins of a temple. He has since been enthralled with crystals, so much so that his divine connection has been altered.
Hero Lab® and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.
harmor |
Update on the Campaign Trait from: Accomplished Bookworm.
Accomplished Bookworm
Category: Social
Requirements: Int 15
You are an accomplished researcher. As such you have the innate ability to extract facts other may have missed when using books and libraries.
Benefit: You gain an additional +2 trait bonus whenever you gain a circumstance bonus from using books and libraries, as well as to the skill Profession (Librarian). Additionally the time it takes you to benefit from a book or library is halved (minimum 1 full round).
Normal: 1d4 full rounds to search a book to gain a +2 circumstance bonus.
Patcher |
You guys are absolutely nuts - I go to sleep and find twenty posts!?
Well, I have hit a veritable gold mine in regards of enthuse, so I shan't complain.
I noticed that a lot of you seem to possess some crystal (my mind is not quite here yet) - if all of you have a small crystal shard, I know exactly how to do a couple of things - and it would give you another reason to be together.
@Harmor, I am loving your dedication here and even if you can only do an hour a day I still want you in this seven-man party.
I'll come up with campaign traits now - not quite in Harmor's format (because right now I'm a lazy, sleepy bum), but you'll get the gist.
Lucca:
...possessed?: A force drives you forward for some inexplicable reason, and it tugs on different aspects of your mind and body. Seemingly at random. During particular circumstances (DM's discretion), you randomly gain a +1 trait bonus to either: attack roll, damage roll, AC, fort saves, will saves, reflex saves or spell DCs. In addition, you gain a +1 trait bonus to Knowledge (Planes) checks, and this skill is always a class skill for you.
I know it sounds powerful, but it'll be random (most likely only against boss monsters or in times of great peril).
Skender and Coross:
Brothers of Blades: Some people are drawn to the song of battle. Others detest it, proclaim it as an evil. For you, it's a sensation, a thrill - it's nothing to do with bloodthirst, only the enjoyment of a dance of steel that brings you on your toes. And it is better shared with somebody whose skill with the blade you trust. When flanking with a friend, you gain a +1 trait bonus to damage rolls. When standing side by side, you gain a +1 trait bonus to AC and reflex saves.
This could be very powerful, but at the same time you'll never reap the benefits of both at the same time - either you're flanking or you're defending. It is a strong trait, though. If too strong, we may drop the AC bonus.
I may give you all additional traits later on, depending on what happens - an example would be between Coross and Lucca (blade and outsider thing). But that'll come in time.
Zachary:
Odd Studies: Always curious of your own blood, you've worked hard on controlling your own blood and identifying its origins. While the results were not quite what you expected or hoped for, you reaped an impressive amount of knowledge from these studies. You gain a +1 trait bonus to Knowledge (The Planes) and Knowledge (Religion) checks. This bonus increases to +2 when identifying monsters with these checks.
Does that work?
Which leaves us with... Ævux. And I'll bring Flum's trait up a notch so it's as strong. Harmor, if you feel your trait is also weak in compare we'll buff yours as well. I feel campaign traits can be a little stronger. YMMV.
Ævux:
Alchemical Aberration: You are a creation - a creation with sentience, emotions and free will. Yet the power of alchemy runs through your veins, a taint or remnant from the experiments that your mind no longer remembers. As the only one of your kind, to your knowledge, you have an innate understanding of the mathematics of alchemy and the arcane. Once per day, any extract you prepare may be prepared at +1 caster level. You also gain a +1 trait bonus on Craft (Alchemy) and Knowledge (Arcane) checks.
Does that work?
Flum:
Alchemical Prodigy: For all intents and purposes, mundane alchemy has always been a joy, a simplicity that you've enjoyed. Yet you've pushed your alchemical boundries beyond the scope of the layman and found that some (un)healthy experimentation has reaped wondrous results. Whenever you use Craft (Alchemy) checks to create items, you may go beyond the normal scope of creation (with permit from the DM). You also gain a +1 trait bonus to Craft (Alchemy) checks, and a +5 trait bonus to Perception checks to identify the effects of a potion or alchemical substance.
I lessened the bonus slightly but gave you more benefits. I don't think it's too strong, but again, YMMV.
Any thoughts? If the fluff feels wrong, feel free to change it - I am mainly concerned about the benefits and if they are too strong for some of you.
Zachary McDonald |
Odd Studies: Always curious of your own blood, you've worked hard on controlling your own blood and identifying its origins. While the results were not quite what you expected or hoped for, you reaped an impressive amount of knowledge from these studies. You gain a +1 trait bonus to Knowledge (The Planes) and Knowledge (Religion) checks. This bonus increases to +2 when identifying monsters with these checks.
Does that work?
This works perfectly. I'll adjust the character and change the link on the profile appropriately.
Also, I filled out a backstory. It's on the profile, but too big to also put in my character sheet. Just FYI.
Qi |
alchemical prodigy sounds great. I'll adjust my skill # and other related details.
By way of more backstory, how about this:
Frum has been tasked with researching the possibility of bonding various metals and minerals to metal in a similar way as silver is commonly bonded to blades.
The university was recently given a large grant from an unknown source, and in particular, the alchemy department was given better equipment. The condition was that this research be a regular pursuit of the research wing.
Frum has started to imagine a type of orb-like device that would be made of steel, but bonded with these different elements in different places, in different concentrations, with a crystal housed inside. If the mathematics were worked out the energy could be harnessed, although Frum is still fuzzy on what might happen.
I won't be able to post again, most likely, until this evening.
Skender Ruggova |
Relation to Edgar Lamoureux - Skender Ruggova (Human Soulknife) - we crossed paths when he injured himself. While he was under my I couldn't help notice he had a small crystal in his possessions. We since have discussed our research.
I suppose this crystal you speak of could be a gem that was given to my mother, from my father, that I stole before I took off to enroll in this University. It could be my only link to my father, and a possible (if this path is established) mental link to the entity that was possessing him.
Zachary McDonald |
I noticed that a lot of you seem to possess some crystal (my mind is not quite here yet) - if all of you have a small crystal shard, I know exactly how to do a couple of things - and it would give you another reason to be together.
Hrm, not sure how I could have a crystal. I would either have to receive it at the academy somehow, or have that be the source of my demonic taint. As far as the second option goes, what would likely happen is that I have one of these crystals growing inside me without knowing it, fueling my magic. It really would depend on why we have these crystals, and what they do.