Has anyone here tried using something like the card method above?
I'm considering making different methods depending on the degree of MAD for the class. For example, a wizard needs high Int, and reasonable Con and Dex, and can dump Str, Wis, and Cha into the trash if he wants. A monk, on the other hand, needs pretty much everything except Int and Cha, and if he dumps Int too far, he's losing one of his major class features (skill points).
So if you're rolling 4d6, drop lowest, and arranging to taste, different classes would generate a different number of stats:
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There is a rule, if i remember that if all ability modifiers total +3 or less, the player gets to scrap those rolls and roll anew. And as i said, they are allowed a reroll of a single stat....Most characters in my games have combined ability bonuses of at least +10 - +14.
Of course i will not force a player to play a character with four sevens one five and a ten. That would be sadism.
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Hm, i hate it when all my players are equal in power. It kinda kills things to me to see equal stats all over the characters sheets, just placed in different spots.I prefer rolling because it creates diversity, unlike point buy, where there are less options. And if somebody ends up with a sub-otpimal characters, well c'est la vie. Not all of us are born equal i'm afraid. The world would be a terribly dull place if all people were equaly competent in their fields don't you agree?
And it kills me when a player is clearly superior to another.
Classes are pretty much balanced, and for the stronger ones, the DM can always make their life harder to compensate. I don't want to be the Robin to my Batman friends. I want to be the sword that cuts ennemies in half while my pal is making death rain from above, and the cutie blondie is charming the ugly orc to drop his weapons while Henry is preparing himself to stealth-slice the hell out of it's throat.I love point-buy because it allows you to create exactly what you imagine before you come to "roll" your character, and to make it efficient without ever being flawless. There are lots of options, and the player can decide how to apply them. I don't play to be a sub-optimal pawn like in real life, I play to be a hero from the good stories, with great strengths and dramatic failures. We aren't born equal, since we are different characters from different backgrounds, with different stats and roleplays - certainly "better" than NPCs by one or two "stats points", but still, in the norm.
We are heroes, we are - or better, become, competent in our field. Stats are only our predisposition to greatness. Some are more competent, but some are also less. My "level 15" fighter isn't as charismatic and lovely that this "level 4" bard, but I can live the legends he uses to inspire courage and charm ladies.
I don't play Metro&Work. I "write" inspiring, memorable, breathtaking, nice and sad stories of love, hate, war, fighting, fairies, dragons and kingdoms by living and roleplaying in a fantasy world where I can be a credible hero, all the while having fun with friends around a table and a pizza.
And this, gentlemen, is why I prefer point-buy.
Classes are pretty much balanced
In the same way that Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit are balanced.
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Classes are pretty much balancedIn the same way that Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit are balanced.
If Angel Summonner and BMX Bandit were at my DM's table, Angel Summonner would sometimes cry about his carreer choice.
And the "classes being balanced" (hint : I know they aren't) wasn't really the subject. ;3
Just as a comparison of relative power and the variance of dice rolling:
If you take, for example, 4d6drop1 and map that onto point purchase, you will get an average of around 18.9 points with a std dev of 11.3. Which means that ~68% (one standard deviation) of characters will fall somewhere between 7.6 pts and 30.2 pts. With the rest falling outside that.
It depends on how you treat (the very real possibility of) scores between 3 and 6 for dice rolling. For the above calculation, I just continued the pattern downwards:
3 => -14
4 => -11
5 => -8
6 => -6
7 => -4
8 => -2
...
3d6drop0 avg = 3.3056, std dev = 10.7541
4d6drop1 avg = 18.9028, std dev = 11.2911
5d6drop2 avg = 30.6211, std dev = 11.6690
you'd get slightly different results for using a different mapping (or throwing out all scores below 7).
4d6 drop low 6 times. Roll 3 sets and choose the one you like, assigning as you like. I find it ends with players having between 22-35 point buy, though the distrobution is "worse" than if they had 20, and thier primary stats are usually lower.
I find that complaints about stat discrepancy between 1 player and annother are usually irrelevant. Usually you wont see much difference between the effectiveness of the high and low point characters.
That would be the one I use as well.
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"I wanted to know what is the best method of ability score generation that allows players to feel heroic but won't skew my organization of encounters."My primary concern is what method will create characters that don't require me to tweak any further than what the basic encounter construction requires in the book with XP and CR for monsters. Clearly low ability score characters should be challenged differently than high ability score characters. I want to know what method works best for me creating encounters as a GM.
Well, the method I use is 25 point-buy, but with only specific distributions allowed. Usually these:
16, 14, 14, 13, 12, 10
16, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8
They then distriburte those scores as they see fit. Groups used to point-buy probably won't even complain, since it is 25 point buy.
That allows players to feel appropriately heroic and allows MAD character classes without skewing the top two or three Ability scores any differently than they would be in optimized 15 point-buy, and thus allows standard encounter design. It also keeps all the characters fairly equal without encouraging min-maxing and loads of 7s in Charisma and such.
We like the randomness and used the 4D6 method with the allowance that you could attempt to roll again one time, but you had to keep that rerolled score. Generally, this has worked out fine as everyone averages to something similar to a 20 point buy.
However, in our last character generation session, one guy rolled this: 18, 17, 17, 15, 14, 11
No lie. I wrote it down because I couldn't believe it. I even checked his dice to make sure he wasn't cheating (completely unnecessary because they were the same dice everyone else used, but it made me feel better). I've never seen so many sixes in my life. When he rolled that 18, he rolled all sixes and yelled, "Yahtzee!" The worst part was that everyone else rolled well below average.
Needless to say, his Paladin is an absolute beast with a greatsword. But I have to admit, it has created an interesting role playing dynamic. Still, I think that might be what convinces everyone to switch to the point buy.
For our current campaign we...
Roll 4d6, re-rolling all 1s and drop the lowest.
Roll 7 stats and drop the lowest.
Whoever out of our group got the highest combined number by adding up their 6 stats determined what we had to work with. I believe it was 88. Everyone had the same stat totals to start.
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If Angel Summonner and BMX Bandit were at my DM's table, Angel Summonner would sometimes cry about his carreer choice.Let me guess. By making the campaign about the BMX Championships, which are held in a country that has strict 'no summoning' laws.
Mmmh... actually, by using, you know, subtilty instead of "world banning rules of championship".
For example, no item creation at 50% price. It's full 100%. So, no cheese on WBL, only more versatility. But you can instead convert existing magic items into a raw magical webbing that costs a part of the item's base price depending on your level and craft check, and use this webbing as a material for another object. Sometimes it gives glowing pink items when you mix two necromantics magical auras. Or cries and whispering. The former is stranger.Ennemies are well aware that a wizard is dangerous. Readied archers are a favorite, as is any antimagic field, silence/deafening effects, dramatic storm concentration checks, poison checks, flying monk cannonballs, thrown rocks/tree, the sundered component pouch/divine symbol (sometimes associated with the readied action for more lulz), the Step Up feat with Disruptive, counterspells and Witch hunters. I don't know any player at our table who ever felt perfectly safe with their spellcaster, whatever the one they played, and they had to invest heavily in feats and items just to be able to overcome basic obstacles. But they didn't get screwed more than anyone else. Just enough to not make them feel like Batman while everyone else felt like Robin.
Mmmh... actually, by using, you know, subtilty instead of "world banning rules of championship".
For example, no item creation at 50% price. It's full 100%. So, no cheese on WBL, only more versatility.
If you hand out a lot of gold as opposed to treasure that might work, but if you hand out more magic item this idea fails. I am selling my stuff at half price to buy something at full price. The math just dows not work out.
Enemies are well aware that a wizard is dangerous. Readied archers are a favorite, as is any antimagic field, silence/deafening effects, dramatic storm concentration checks, poison checks, flying monk cannonballs, thrown rocks/tree, the sundered component pouch/divine symbol (sometimes associated with the readied action for more lulz), the Step Up feat with Disruptive, counterspells and Witch hunters. I don't know any player at our table who ever felt perfectly safe with their spellcaster, whatever the one they played, and they had to invest heavily in feats and items just to be able to overcome basic obstacles. But they didn't get screwed more than anyone else. Just enough to not make them feel like Batman while everyone else felt like Robin.
The archers have to win initiative to interrupt the spell. They also lose a turn if the wizard does not cast if they can ready. Even if they get the readied attack they still lose the full round action, and casters will just go invisible more often.
Antimagic field is a personal spell. Silence is taken care of with a rod which most good players have anyway. The storms don't seem so subtle to me, and concetration checks get a lot easier the higher the level is. Poison requires the caster to be hit most of the which is what the caster is trying to avoid. If you can hit him then he is already in trouble. Counterspells also eat up ready actions and they require the same spell. The only way to make that viable is metagaming most of the time.I have never seen the caster/noncaster thing come into play anyway until high levels. Normally there is a good player/not so good player issue.
edit:clarification and grammar
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If you hand out a lot of gold as opposed to treasure that might work, but if you hand out more magic item this idea fails. I am selling my stuff at half price to buy something at full price. The math just dows not work out.
Most of the time, we get lots of precious conventional items. Lower items are kept/recycled/traded, and major items are bought full price by important NPCs or organizations. We don't have magic wall-marts where we can sell and buy everything, but it always balances with itself, and becomes mechanically the same than getting lots of items sold 50% then the gold used to craft at 50% price.
The archers have to win initiative to interrupt the spell. They also lose a turn if the wizard does not cast if they can ready. Even if they get the readied attack they still lose the full round action, and casters will just go invisible more often.
Antimagic field is a personal spell. Silence is taken care of with a rod which most good players have anyway. The storms don't seem so subtle to me, and concetration checks get a lot easier the higher the level is. Poison requires the caster to be hit most of the which is what the caster is trying to avoid. If you can hit him then he is already in trouble. Counterspells also eat up ready actions and they require the same spell. The only way to make that viable is metagaming most of the time.
I have never seen the caster/noncaster thing come into...
Yes, you're right. And I'll not debunk or add exceptions or situational details to everything you said since you would still be right.
Though, see my previous stance on balance between classes, just after the "hint:" part.
That would be the one I use as well.4d6 drop low 6 times. Roll 3 sets and choose the one you like, assigning as you like. I find it ends with players having between 22-35 point buy, though the distrobution is "worse" than if they had 20, and thier primary stats are usually lower.
I find that complaints about stat discrepancy between 1 player and annother are usually irrelevant. Usually you wont see much difference between the effectiveness of the high and low point characters.
The fact that mdt uses this method too has me all but certain it must be the best option. :)
Yesterday my group and I met together for preliminary planning. I decided to go with 25 point buy with a caveat of no ability score could be above 16 before racial modifiers. The group is more experienced than I and were happy with the notion. To touch on what I mentioned on restricting silver and the bane, holy, axiomatic and disruptive enchantments, I plan to do so because the entire campaign is focused on enemies weak against these qualities. I'm not completely removing these qualities, merely intending to make them more valuable by restricting them. Not every character is going to have a beautiful, shiny silver sword to combat the darkness.
Weapons automatically overcome different DR types as they get improved.
I never liked bane anyway since it is only good against a specific creature type.
I like this method best!
That's kind of cool...
I'm not super-sure that purchase creates the most balance. Purchase, particularly if your table likes to dump stats, virtually guarantees a 18 or 20 in your primary stat, which benefits some classes substantially more than others:
The 20-STR fighter is going to hit all the damn time, and hit hard.
The 20-Wis cleric gets...1 extra spell/day and higher saves.
Point buys really hit MAD (multiple-ability dependent) classes like, IMO, the cleric, by rewarding SAD (single-ability dependent) classes. If the cleric rolled an 18 for WIS, he/she has a chance of having decent STR, CON, etc.
Your table should talk about opinions on dump-statting before you make characters with a purchase system. If the fighter rolled a 7, I have no problem with him putting it in CHR. But the purchase systems tell him he can take a 17-STR to an 18 by dropping his CHR from 10 to 7, which tends to make me unhappy.
Rolling can produce odd results, but with a little GM fiat can do quite well. I personally prefer an organic style similar to that mentioned by others (Min2007?), but I haven't played an adventure path so I can't tell you how it would play out there.
Edit: Alas, didn't see the OP had made his call already...
Just for grins and giggles I rolled 3d6 in order and got these results; 8,16,14,7,10,12. That's and equivalent 11pt buy-in. Know what? Right now mt 25pb Ranger is looking really special. lol
In the future, I plan on using the above stats in a game. PF gives ample opportunity to raise stats over time, so I'm not worried. This guy isn't gonna be the team leader, rather he's the team pad-foot. He'll make a great Rogue. I won't even sweat it when someone rolls an equivalent 25pb array.
Just for grins and giggles I rolled 3d6 in order and got these results; 8,16,14,7,10,12. That's and equivalent 11pt buy-in. Know what? Right now mt 25pb Ranger is looking really special. lol
In the future, I plan on using the above stats in a game. PF gives ample opportunity to raise stats over time, so I'm not worried. This guy isn't gonna be the team leader, rather he's the team pad-foot. He'll make a great Rogue. I won't even sweat it when someone rolls an equivalent 25pb array.
I would play that character. A finnesse rogue would do decently well with those stats. I would probably go elf to mitigate the 7 int and boost up the 16 dex. Or go halfling and play up the low str-int combo but fairly hearty and charismatic. I've seen, and played with, worse sets of stats.
3d6drop0 avg = 3.3056, std dev = 10.7541
4d6drop1 avg = 18.9028, std dev = 11.2911
5d6drop2 avg = 30.6211, std dev = 11.6690
2d6+6 avg = 25.6667, std dev = 10.5926
So 2d6+6 is around Epic point purchase (with quite a bit of variance as usual for dice).
I would play that character. A finnesse rogue would do decently well with those stats. I would probably go elf to mitigate the 7 int and boost up the 16 dex. Or go halfling and play up the low str-int combo but fairly hearty and charismatic. I've seen, and played with, worse sets of stats.
There's a guy in my group who traded a character with a total of +3 mods (rolled 3d6 in order) for a character with a total of -3 or -4. He played a 4-STR halfling paladin, and had a grand time. He is also my proof that while all character optimize, some optimize in the opposite direction.
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I've come to enjoy the Aquerra Stat Draft system.
Roll up enough stats in seven categories to cover each PC: STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA, and Wild. If you have 5 PCs, you will have 5 STR scores, 5 DEX scores, and so on.
Then, the players, in turn, choose single scores. After the first round, each player will have a single ability score. A Wild score may be placed in any ability, but the other scores are fixed. The order of picks in the second round is first pick goes to the lowest score picked in the first round, and so on, to the highest pick in the first round picking last. Continue each round in this fashion, using total stat bonus to date as a tie-breaker, with people picking later in the previous round picking earlier in the next round as a second tiebreaker.
This way, all PCs are generated from the same pool, there is still randomness, and the players are incented to work together (or compete) to form the characters they wish.
3d6drop0 avg = 3.3056, std dev = 10.7541
4d6drop1 avg = 18.9028, std dev = 11.2911
5d6drop2 avg = 30.6211, std dev = 11.6690
2d6+6 avg = 25.6667, std dev = 10.5926
Out of curiosity, are you claiming these "averages" are the average point purchase result? I'm very curious to see how you figured them.
Dave
I gave grid a few spins. That really puts the kibosh on players that have a concept they want to play in mind before rolling.
3d6drop0 avg = 3.3056, std dev = 10.7541
4d6drop1 avg = 18.9028, std dev = 11.2911
5d6drop2 avg = 30.6211, std dev = 11.6690
2d6+6 avg = 25.6667, std dev = 10.5926
So 2d6+6 is around Epic point purchase (with quite a bit of variance as usual for dice).
Yeah what do those numbers mean? When I ran the numbers a long time ago I got 10.5 as the average stat on 3d6 and 12 point something on 4d6 drop lowest. And just eyeballing it it looks like 2d6+6 should have a 13 average stat.
3d6drop0 avg = 3.3056, std dev = 10.7541
4d6drop1 avg = 18.9028, std dev = 11.2911
5d6drop2 avg = 30.6211, std dev = 11.6690
2d6+6 avg = 25.6667, std dev = 10.5926
So 2d6+6 is around Epic point purchase (with quite a bit of variance as usual for dice).
Yeah what do those numbers mean? When I ran the numbers a long time ago I got 10.5 as the average stat on 3d6 and 12 point something on 4d6 drop lowest. And just eyeballing it it looks like 2d6+6 should have a 13 average stat.
He is giving the average pointbuy value that results from that type of rolling. So he is saying 4d6 drop 1 will result in ~19 point buy on average, but the standard deviation will be 11 points.
I'm not sure I trust his numbers. The only one I have seen calculated before is 4d6 drop low, and people argued over the result being anywhere from 18 to 22, and I have never seen the standard dev calculated for it. The disagreement on the average was caused by people arguing over how much values under 7 should be treated.
3d6drop0 avg = 3.3056, std dev = 10.7541
4d6drop1 avg = 18.9028, std dev = 11.2911
5d6drop2 avg = 30.6211, std dev = 11.6690
2d6+6 avg = 25.6667, std dev = 10.5926
So 2d6+6 is around Epic point purchase (with quite a bit of variance as usual for dice).
Yeah what do those numbers mean? When I ran the numbers a long time ago I got 10.5 as the average stat on 3d6 and 12 point something on 4d6 drop lowest. And just eyeballing it it looks like 2d6+6 should have a 13 average stat.
Build Points, average Build Points.
Thanks I get it now... mostly.
You can plug in the point value for each stat instead of the stat itself and then you get the average point buy value instead of the average stat... but care to explain how you get a standard deviation and what that means?
I never took statistics. :(
Thanks I get it now... mostly.
You can plug in the point value for each stat instead of the stat itself and then you get the average point buy value instead of the average stat... but care to explain how you get a standard deviation and what that means?I never took statistics. :(
Standard deviation is a way of measuring how tightly grouped values will be to the average. ~65% of values will be within 1 standard deviation, ~95% within 2, and 98% within 3, and you can calculate more if you care.
4d6drop1 avg = 18.9028, std dev = 11.2911
gonna round this to 19 and 11 for simplicity
What this says is ~64% of the time you will get a value between 8 and 30, ~95% of the time you will get between -3 and 41, annd 5% of the time you will get outside that.
This assumes that you have a smooth curve and even chance to get high and low. There is a problem with using it on rolls where you drop the low is that you don't have an even curve and it is skewed, so standard dev is not a perfect measurement on this, but its good enough without getting into more statistical measurements.
edit: those % are if I remember my statistics correctly. Its been a couple years.
I'm not sure I trust his numbers. The only one I have seen calculated before is 4d6 drop low, and people argued over the result being anywhere from 18 to 22, and I have never seen the standard dev calculated for it. The disagreement on the average was caused by people arguing over how much values under 7 should be treated.
That's an excellent observation. I'm also curious if this is calculated using the "statistics" that commonly are used, or if this is actually an expectation.
Edit: Caineach is also correct that std devs work that way for Gaussian (bell) curves, and though a lot of people (those with Ph.D.'s included) tend to expect them to work similarly for all variables, Caineach is correct that they don't work for skewed distributions.
That's an excellent observation. I'm also curious if this is calculated using the "statistics" that commonly are used, or if this is actually an expectation.
Edit: Caineach is also correct that std devs work that way for Gaussian (bell) curves, and though a lot of people (those with Ph.D.'s included) tend to expect them to work similarly for all variables, Caineach is correct that they don't work for skewed distributions.
I understand about the bell-curve aspect of std dev. The curves are skewed a bit, but it should still give a number in the right ballpark. For a GM just trying to gauge power levels, 19 +/- 11 point buy is good enough. I probably shouldn't have given 4 places past the decimal, implying that it was actually accurate to that level.
Here is the histogram of raw scores for 4d6 drop 1, with translation to point buy:
count, score -> point buy value
1 3 -> -14
4 4 -> -11
10 5 -> -8
21 6 -> -6
38 7 -> -4
62 8 -> -2
91 9 -> -1
122 10 -> 0
148 11 -> 1
167 12 -> 2
172 13 -> 3
160 14 -> 5
131 15 -> 7
94 16 -> 10
54 17 -> 13
21 18 -> 17
average raw score of 12.2445, with average point buy per score of 3.1504. Multiply by 6 scores to get 18.9 total average pt buy.
You can always substitute how you would handle below 7 scores to get your own interpretation. 18 to 22 are reasonable variations.
Needless to say, his Paladin is an absolute beast with a greatsword. But I have to admit, it has created an interesting role playing dynamic. Still, I think that might be what convinces everyone to switch to the point buy.
That's how I did it.
In our first campaign, one guy managed to get two 18s and assorted stuff (I don't remember the rest, but it wasn't bad).
For the second game, I tried to convince the DM to move to point buy. I argued, I made a great case about its advantages. I pointed out that it would mean no overpowered characters (don't want *me* with overpowered stats, do you?) I almost begged. And then I did beg, if I recalled correctly.
Wouldn't hear of it.
So we rolled.
Guess what?
I had the two 18s combined with other nice rolls. Again, I don't recall the rest. Doesn't really matter, really. (It was Stargate with d20Modern as rule set, I played a soldier with 18 dex and 18 con and a big, big gun).
Campaign after that, we used point buy :D
I'm a fan of 36 point buy.
The other two options I've used is
4d6, reroll 1's and 2's, if you get 4x6's then you can keep the 24. Drop the lowest die if you don't roll all 6's.
And 8+d12
For health I prefer max, but will settle for max-4+d4 or half+1 (4, 5, 6, 7) depending on how "tough" I want the campaigns. If I allow a flat roll for health, I will allow them to choose between the roll and half+1.
In my games I prefer the players to be "Heroes of the world" or at least potential heroes, it's up to their actions and motivations as to whether or not they accomplish anything. And I don't like their luck being a possible handicap. If I allow "luck" into rolls, it's whether or not they get something awesome. :)
I've always hated point buy since inevitably the rediculously uncharismatic cleric tries to dominate the role-playing. Also, point buy takes away the randomness of character conception. Sometimes your an adonis, and sometimes you're a clutz with a big club. But in either case you're still mad about that fire.
Currently I make my players roll 3d6+2 7 times and drop the lowest. Nobody has ever ended up with less than +8 total modifier...and that was me when I relinquished control to play for a minute :(
I've never been a fan of stats/skills being trumped by roleplay. Someone could work out the most elaborate speech of how they plan to act out a diplomatic scene with someone.. I may forego the roll and give them a "modifier" based on their roleplay but that would add to their skill. If the resulting check was not high enough to pass the check, I may require a roll to "surpass" the roleplay through luck or some other circumstance. In this case, it would basically allow them the ability to roll higher then their roleplay would allow but not getting a benefit from roleplaying if they succeed. If they fail, even if they roll a 1, I will fall back to how well they roleplayed.
If someone has 2 ranks in diplomacy and a 6 charisma, I don't care how awesome the speech you gave is, the guy that has 18 charisma and 12 ranks in diplomacy can take a 10 and still be better off. That's the reward of statting your character that way.
My current DM's have been doing most diplomacy/intimidate/bluff checks based on what you say and how well you roleplay it.. I'm sorry, while that is somewhat important to the game it does not break archetypal stat/skill blocks that you set for your character.
Whenever a roleplay situation comes up for certain things like battle, etc.. allowing careful planning and whatnot. I modify stuff like that based on Knowledge (History) or Bardic Knowledge checks.. for battle tactics/strategy. Good plans suggested by a player could easily result in me allowing them a "You take a 15-20 on check" depending on how awesome the plan is, with their skills allowing them that much better of an edge.
Just a personal opinion I guess. :P
It's a good opinion. Some players roleplay well via natural speaking talent. But there's no melee benefit for the RL weightlifter that's playing with a STR of 6.
"Descibe how you break the door."
Silly.
Best game I've ever played in, everyone wrote a character and passed it left when they were done.
Wait, no, best was a Third Day of Thunder Rokugan game. But that one above was second.
It's a good opinion. Some players roleplay well via natural speaking talent. But there's no melee benefit for the RL weightlifter that's playing with a STR of 6.
"Descibe how you break the door."
Silly.
Best game I've ever played in, everyone wrote a character and passed it left when they were done.
Wait, no, best was a Third Day of Thunder Rokugan game. But that one above was second.
Interesting ways to break the door, developing an improved fulcrum utilizing a crow bar, a metal chain, your party members.. possible assistance via counterweights/pulleys.. lots of options to open doors beyond "I smack it with my head."
All options that I posted above are subject to DM discretion. As any rule in the book should be. The DM is there to make the game fun for everybody and to offer an interesting challenge for the players. Unfortunately from the stories I hear and read, that doesn't always seem the case.
It's a good opinion. Some players roleplay well via natural speaking talent. But there's no melee benefit for the RL weightlifter that's playing with a STR of 6.
"Descibe how you break the door."
Silly.
Best game I've ever played in, everyone wrote a character and passed it left when they were done.
Wait, no, best was a Third Day of Thunder Rokugan game. But that one above was second.
Interesting ways to break the door, developing an improved fulcrum utilizing a crow bar, a metal chain, your party members.. possible assistance via counterweights/pulleys.. lots of options to open doors beyond "I smack it with my head."
All options that I posted above are subject to DM discretion. As any rule in the book should be. The DM is there to make the game fun for everybody and to offer an interesting challenge for the players. Unfortunately from the stories I hear and read, that doesn't always seem the case.
All of that is great. Unless you skimped on INT so that you AC was better.
All's I'm saying is, if you're hunchbacked or LD then play it. Don't ignore the stats just because you aren't rolling them. Otherwise, why not just play a video game?
Didn't say I was ignoring stats, I just said that I reward people for creativity and resourcefulness. If someone isn't normally strong enough to break through a door normally, but they're intelligent and capable of doing other tasks that when combined would give them a good chance of breaking through the door, I either give them a bonus to their roll or allow them to roll a different stat with a good enough reason. There are always options out there for characters that think outside of the box.
I specifically said that I was against ignoring stats/skills all together. You were the one that brought up the door example. :P
Didn't say I was ignoring stats, I just said that I reward people for creativity and resourcefulness. If someone isn't normally strong enough to break through a door normally, but they're intelligent and capable of doing other tasks that when combined would give them a good chance of breaking through the door, I either give them a bonus to their roll or allow them to roll a different stat with a good enough reason. There are always options out there for characters that think outside of the box.
I specifically said that I was against ignoring stats/skills all together. You were the one that brought up the door example. :P
I'm just saying that if you allocated it, then play it.
I can't throw lightning, but my character can. I can develop an intricate pully system...but my poor invalid character, sadly, cannot, thanks to an IQ of 80.
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I'm going to be GMing my first Pathfinder campaign and I wanted to know what is the best method of ability score generation that allows players to feel heroic but won't skew my organization of encounters. I'm not sure which tier of point-buy would be best or if I should just have my players roll or give them preset variables.
Go the full 25 and make 'em feel good. It won't skew anything.
Personally, we do 28 point buy, but we add Appearance as a seventh stat.
I really like the method that starts all stats at 8.You then roll 7d6 and assign the dice to which stat you like, using the whole of the sum of each individual die. Eg if you roll 6,5,4,3,2,1,4 and you wanted 18 Str you could add the 6 and 4 to your Str 8. Then add the 5,3,2 and 1 rolls to the other stats. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I think an overall Stat bonus of +6 should get you through most situations just fine. I like my heroes to have flaws, it just makes the game more interesting and forces players to act as a team.
Point Buy is best for group harmony. I currently play in a 3.5 that started with '4d6-lowest/arrange as needed', but the average effective point value to start was still about 25. I rolled the equivalent of a 53 point character right in front of everyone. As we are still under level 6, stats are staggeringly important. Last fight, one of the mages suddenly realized that I had more HP than the rest of the party. Guess who got front duty from then on.
Then again, stats aren't everything: the baddest mage had a single 17 in her casting stat (Now 20 with the human +2 and the level 4 +1). Do Not Cross an 18yo that does Calculus in her head.
Try this:
Card-based Ability Score GenerationYou need six cards, numbered from 4 to 9, of one suit (for our example, Spades), and the same six number cards from a second suit (Hearts).
Method 1 - All Random
Shuffle all the Spades and lay them face down in a row of six. Each of these corresponds to an ability score in order: Strength, Constitution, Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma.
Shuffle all the Hearts and lay them face down on the six, one on each. Flip each pair face up and add the totals for each. These are your ability scores.
This method will produce arrays that are completely random but will tend to be more 'fair' than pure rolling.
Method 2 - Partial Random Hidden
Shuffle all the Spades and lay them face down in a row of six per method 1.
Place the Hearts face up where you choose, then flip the Spades face up and add the totals in order. These are your ability scores.
This method grants some control over your final result, as you can use the Hearts to prioritise your ability scores. Random chance may still throw a spanner in the works and give you something unexpected.
Method 3 - Partial Random Visible
Shuffle all the spades and lay them face up in a row of six.
Place the Hearts face up where you choose, per method 2.
This method grants the most control, as you can see where the first six of cards have fallen and plan around them when placing the second six.
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Has anyone here tried using something like the card method above?
I haven't used those methods, though they look like something I would like to try.
I do use cards. Generally 18 cards divided into 6 stats.
1- rqandomly divide 18 cards (whatever 18 cards the DM wants), 3 per stat, in order
2- add up each stat
3- add 1 to a stat and 6 (max 18)to another stat
3.5(optional) switch any 2 stats
4- adjust for race
This gets you the random/organic-ness of rolling, but keeps the fairness of point buy (without the cookie cutter sameness).
The 1 is to make an odd stat even.
The 6 can make a moderate stat good (or a poor stat moderate), if you really want to play a specific class/concept.