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Just read Fury of Firestorm, LSH, and Legion Lost. I liked the first two, even with all the bad press that Firestorm has gotten. Legion Lost was not that great in my mind, I had no idea what was going on, the art was not the best, and unlike LSH they did not clue me in on who anyone was. Timber Wolf is the only character I knew and the last time I checked he was more bestial looking.
Interesting thoughts, A Man In Black.
So after the whole 52 debut, my only two must haves were Batwoman and Justice League Dark. If my finances pick up, I might reconsider Batgirl and Birds of Prey, but they'll have to improve first.
As for the whole Catwoman and Starfire thing...
I didn't have the same reaction to Catwoman as others, because when I tried picking it up in the past, I was turned off by the then gratuitous artwork (Balent's work comes immediately to mind). I mostly liked what they did with her in Gotham City Sirens, but I wasn't invested in it.
Starfire, on the other hand, was my first memorable female superhero. My first exposure was a stack of used Wolfman & Perez Titans. "The Judas Contract" storyline was epic to my pre-teen mind. That Kory/Starfire is the one I was attached to. She was sexy and gorgeous, yes, but she was sweet, smart (if naive about Earth culture), a respectable warrior, and had an actual personality. The reboot Kory/Starfire has less personality than a paper centerfold or a Real Doll.
It's sad to see the old Kory gone, but I could accept that. If they want to shut out all the girls and women customers, that's DC's business decision to make. It's also DC's right to just consider these female characters as cheesecake (or cotton candy in the new Starfire's case). But for the DC writers responsible to hold up the new Starfire or Catwoman (or Amanda Waller) as a model of "modern female empowerment"...?! W T F ? !
So after the whole 52 debut, my only two must haves were Batwoman and Justice League Dark. If my finances pick up, I might reconsider Batgirl and Birds of Prey, but they'll have to improve first.
As for the whole Catwoman and Starfire thing...
I didn't have the same reaction to Catwoman as others, because when I tried picking it up in the past, I was turned off by the then gratuitous artwork (Balent's work comes immediately to mind). I mostly liked what they did with her in Gotham City Sirens, but I wasn't invested in it.
Starfire, on the other hand, was my first memorable female superhero. My first exposure was a stack of used Wolfman & Perez Titans. "The Judas Contract" storyline was epic to my pre-teen mind. That Kory/Starfire is the one I was attached to. She was sexy and gorgeous, yes, but she was sweet, smart (if naive about Earth culture), a respectable warrior, and had an actual personality. The reboot Kory/Starfire has less personality than a paper centerfold or a Real Doll.
It's sad to see the old Kory gone, but I could accept that. If they want to shut out all the girls and women customers, that's DC's business decision to make. It's also DC's right to just consider these female characters as cheesecake (or cotton candy in the new Starfire's case). But for the DC writers responsible to hold up the new Starfire or Catwoman (or Amanda Waller) as a model of "modern female empowerment"...?! W T F ? !
Unfortunately I have yet to come across either comic. When I do I will post my thoughts in response to your query upthread.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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This just in. Crisis (pick one) never happened.
http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/
He must mean Final Crisis... Oh wait, if that never happened then Why did Dick take up the Cowl?
So it must be infinate Crisis. Oh wait, the multiverse never needed to be recreated.
So he must mean COIE, but Don Hall died doing something there, and Barry and...
Oh he must mean "Hi, we're DC and we have no frakking clue waht we're doing! Look over there! Starfire represents our fans! Taken for granted, and having the memory of a gold fish!"
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This just in. Crisis (pick one) never happened.
http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/
Okay, after reading down a little bit, I noticed that Supergirl is rated T like Detective Comics and red Hood and the Outlaws. I can see why the last two books are rated that, but after Reading Supergirl a couple of times, including a few times with my daughters age 6 and 4, I cannot see why Supergirl has that rating. Does anyone know why it got this rating, maybe something that is coming up in the future?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Okay, after reading down a little bit, I noticed that Supergirl is rated T like Detective Comics and red Hood and the Outlaws. I can see why the last two books are rated that, but after Reading Supergirl a couple of times, including a few times with my daughters age 6 and 4, I cannot see why Supergirl has that rating. Does anyone know why it got this rating, maybe something that is coming up in the future?This just in. Crisis (pick one) never happened.
http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/
She's an alien. So per DC logic a) She must know all aliens (Hal Jordan's "Let's take this thing my ring can't scan to superman. He'll know what it is!") and b) She'll want to sleep with any male, because, y'know, that's what female aliens do. ;-)
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She's an alien. So per DC logic a) She must know all aliens (Hal Jordan's "Let's take this thing my ring can't scan to superman. He'll know what it is!") and b) She'll want to sleep with any male, because, y'know, that's what female aliens do. ;-)Okay, after reading down a little bit, I noticed that Supergirl is rated T like Detective Comics and red Hood and the Outlaws. I can see why the last two books are rated that, but after Reading Supergirl a couple of times, including a few times with my daughters age 6 and 4, I cannot see why Supergirl has that rating. Does anyone know why it got this rating, maybe something that is coming up in the future?This just in. Crisis (pick one) never happened.
http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/
Makes sense. :) Now what is the deal with Wonder Woman? That has to be some of the crappiest artwork I have seen and why does it seem like every woman in the DC universe except the ones in the Flash run around in a perpetual state of being half undressed?
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I thought it was because superheroes only have their powers while showing off their skivvies? I mean, how many years has it been up until now that Superman was running around in the red BVD's?
Now it's Supergirl's turn for the red power panties, I guess.
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The sad truth is that comics with main characters who are fully dressed women don't tend to sell.
Dare I ask but have they had any to try? I am trying to think, at least on DC's side, but I can't think of one.
Wonder Woman has been in short shorts for years.
Power girls cleavage is legendary.
Supergirls short skirts are well known.
Zantana and Black Canary have spectacular fishnets on.
AHA I have one. Oracle! Not only did she sell well but was a kick ass character. Too bad that they blew it and totally revamped the character.
Ah well it is not a reboot and when they undo flashpoint well she can always go back to being in a wheelchair. Damn if she remembers it, that would suck.
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The sad truth is that comics with main characters who are fully dressed women don't tend to sell.Dare I ask but have they had any to try? I am trying to think, at least on DC's side, but I can't think of one.
Wonder Woman has been in short shorts for years.
Power girls cleavage is legendary.
Supergirls short skirts are well known.
Zantana and Black Canary have spectacular fishnets on.AHA I have one. Oracle! Not only did she sell well but was a kick ass character. Too bad that they blew it and totally revamped the character.
Ah well it is not a reboot and when they undo flashpoint well she can always go back to being in a wheelchair. Damn if she remembers it, that would suck.
Both Batgirl and Batwoman had (and have) full costumes.
Skin tight and glossy!
So, I just finished reading the new books. Overall, lots of suprises for me. I haven't read much mainstream in the past eight years, and I was expecting more of a "reboot" or "restart". I was lost with many of the story lines. Friends explained much of the backstories for me, but it still did not mesh with what I "thought" was being advertised.
Beyond that though, much of the continuity between books really bothered me. I wasn't certain if I was reading flashbacks or flashforwards or artists/scriptors were not really giving a darn about the characters from one book to another.
Biggest dissapointment. Captain Atom. Felt like I was reading a version of Solar.
Biggest shock. Aquaman. Never really cared much for the character, but dang... I may actually start collecting this one. I enjoyed it the most of all the 52.
Biggest Huh!?! Starfire. Never was much of a Teen Titan person, but this definitely wasn't the Starfire I remembered. ( I think I remember the version Ambrosia Slaad discusses)
Most nostalgic. Blackhawks. This was a title my stepdad collected as a kid. He gave me his old issues when I was about ten. ( over thirty some years ago) I appreciate the Hawks being updated for modern times. And I think it could become a really good storyline dependin' on what they do with it, but it won't be a title for me. :(
Best Title: Legion Lost. Title worked perfectly. I was lost. Also, in Legion of Superheroes, they reference Legion Lost for a bit of info. Read both, still no clue.
Anywho, I really was hoping to step back into the DC universe with this "reboot". But it did not feel like a reboot at all. Just felt like a new season and writers are back to being uncertain on Supe's powerlevels.
Greg
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You guys should read Voodoo.
I read it. I may go back to look at the pictures, but I do not think I will ever read it again.
Greg
That bad huh?
That bad huh?
It starts as a comic that is devoted to skin shots over story. Not saying that is a bad or good thing, just not what I am looking for at this time.
Greg
You guys should read Voodoo.
Will pick it up later.
I was expecting more of a "reboot" or "restart". I was lost with many of the story lines. Friends explained much of the backstories for me, but it still did not mesh with what I "thought" was being advertised.
I agree with the above. Although I am enjoying the "new 52" and my intrest in comics has been rekindled, the degree of "reboot" seem soft to me.
I was expecting more of a clean slate with opportunities to revisit the titles as thought they were brand new. Create one new DCU based on all the good and bad learned over the last several decades.The previous stories and developments are still there to read and enjoy, and the new mythos would start in 2011 instead of 1940.
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Except they were never going to do that. They would have to ditch all the characters who derive from their history with other characters, some of whom are popular and iconic in their own right. The various ex-Robins and other Bat-characters being the most obvious examples.
And since they weren't going to start with a clean slate, now even old readers have no idea what part of a character's background actually still exist, leaving everyone with the confusion that supposedly keeps new readers from picking up comics.
That thought had crossed my mind. A few characters like Catwoman could have a title and just not have meet the bat yet. The various Robins would not exsist, or be characters that are someone that was never Robin. Naw, makes my head hurt.
Now we've got a young Batman that never aged, but sidekicks that are now adults. Haa haa. Gota just go with it . . .|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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We already have a reboot thread you can add to.I've been playing around with a 'how I'd reboot Wonder woman' for some time in my head, just started writing it out. I'll put my random notes in a seperate thread
D'oh, forgot about that!
You guys should read Voodoo.
Yea, almost boarder line porn. But hey, Ron Marz is writing it.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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That thought had crossed my mind. A few characters like Catwoman could have a title and just not have meet the bat yet. The various Robins would not exsist, or be characters that are someone that was never Robin. Naw, makes my head hurt.
Now we've got a young Batman that never aged, but sidekicks that are now adults. Haa haa. Gota just go with it . . .
Thing is, it might have worked with out Jason.
Years -three through zero. Bruce Wayne travels the world training. Ra's Al Ghul, sensing the potential in Bruce, manipulates Talia into sleeping with him, producing Damien.
Year one. Batman solo.
Year two. Dick Grayson puts on the tights.
Year three. Dick becomes more his own man, Batman goes solo.
Year four. Dick becomes Nightwing. Lonely Place for Dying happens.
Year five. Bruce goes undercover* Dick takes up the mantle. Damien (artificially aged to 12-13) appears. Dick takes Damien as Robin, Tim goes solo as Red Robin**
Year six. Present. Bruce returns, takes up the cowl again, takes Damien under his wing. Dick becomes Nightwing.
There, Bat history compressed into 5 years. (plus training).
Heck, I could even pull Jason in using an old Teen Titans storyline modified slightly. Make Jason a Deathstroke plan to infiltrate the Titans by making a Dick Grayson imposter. (ala Deathwing) he gives up this idea, or it fails, casting the brainwashed youth out. He takes the names of the first two criminals he kills as his own. "Jason" and "Todd" If he served as Robin with Batman for a while it even puts him there. Sure this removes/modifies The Judas Contract, but if you're going to reboot, you may as well get rid of the 40+ year old having sex with the 13 year old bits.
*
**
Edit: That's one thing that got me about Catwoman. The 'controversial' last few panels imply that Selena doesn't know who is behind the cowl, but boinks him anyway. (Not to mention this means that a) Batman has sex with random criminals or b) It wasn't Batman, just some guy she paid to dress up like him.)
That's quite a leap, mm.
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I know, I have DC figured out. Batman will realize that there is no way all these events could have happened in such a relatively short time span. Now knowing that something has happened to time itself and that things have sped up for him, he goes to Barry Allen to help figure it out and thereby re-re-boots the world back!!
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I read it. It and Grifter made me wonder if one of the requirements of the reboot was to screw up every Wildstorm character that they rebooted except stormwatch.You guys should read Voodoo.
I'm not sure I agree that two thin stories are equivalent to "screwing up" the characters. Grifter looks like maybe a Kherubim version of Voodoo's Daemonite, which while a change I'm not sure screws him up.
I thought both books were weak for various reasons, but I don't think they broke the characters. Why do you think so?
Read a few more.
I liked Justice League Dark, and Teen Titans (Lobdell sucks but I like the hunted metahuman kind of reboot). I also liked Superman and didn't think it was too wordy. With Superman I felt like I got my money's worth even though I'm not sure about WTF they are doing with continuity. I know it's pre- Clark/Lois but the Daily Planet has been bought etc.
I'll give it a few more issues.
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I read it. It and Grifter made me wonder if one of the requirements of the reboot was to screw up every Wildstorm character that they rebooted except stormwatch.You guys should read Voodoo.
I'm not sure I agree that two thin stories are equivalent to "screwing up" the characters. Grifter looks like maybe a Kherubim version of Voodoo's Daemonite, which while a change I'm not sure screws him up.
I thought both books were weak for various reasons, but I don't think they broke the characters. Why do you think so?
I don't know that they exactly broke the characters, but these to and the Teen Titans stray the furthest from the previous incarnations of the characters. Most of the other books I have read have either stayed true to the previous incarnation of their characters, or as with Superman, you can see how they are building a background to take the character where we knew him before. With Grifter and Voodoo I just do not get that feeling. Instead I get the feeling that they are going to pay lip service to the previous incarnations but really just create something new out of whole cloth. I am not ready to give up on either series yet, but right now I need something more than what they have given us to keep me there for long.
Read a few more.
I liked Justice League Dark, and Teen Titans (Lobdell sucks but I like the hunted metahuman kind of reboot). I also liked Superman and didn't think it was too wordy. With Superman I felt like I got my money's worth even though I'm not sure about WTF they are doing with continuity. I know it's pre- Clark/Lois but the Daily Planet has been bought etc.I'll give it a few more issues.
The current set up in Superman is almost directly back in the 1980's WGBN/GBS era, where Lois is a television personality, Clark does his best to fit in to the world of Television broadcasting, but keeps slipping back to his printed-word roots, and Jimmy Olsen is somewhere between super-competent secondary character and comic relief sidekick.
It pretty clearly spells out what era the executive staff feels was the "best", from my vantage point. I'm willing to give it a chance, despite my being (overall) disappointed with the offerings thus far.
HOLY CRAP, but I enjoyed Justice League International #2. I have to get my hands on #1.
I picked up JLI thinking it would be marginal at best. Now it's one of my favorite titles. Go JLI.
Also, it seem our red glowing trench wearing lady has taken a vacation from all the #2's so far. I wonder it she's just going to f a d e a w a y . . .