I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a rusty pocket knife than allow 3.5 material to mess with the perfection that is PF.
I didn't know that PF was "perfect", and the people complaining about the Antagonize feat don't know it either. ;)
I don't even want to try to imagine what a caster looks like between the two editions.
The spells in 3.5 are more powerful than in Paizo so you have to selective with the Spell Compendium, but you had to be careful in 3.5 also. I have done it, but it was not bad because I was careful.
edit:Strangely enough I had some guy try to tell me the druid is stronger than in 3.5. If he runs a game I will ask him can I "downgrade." :)
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I don't even want to try to imagine what a caster looks like between the two editions.The spells in 3.5 are more powerful than in Paizo so you have to selective with the Spell Compendium, but you had to be careful in 3.5 also. I have done it, but it was not bad because I was careful.
edit:Strangely enough I had some guy try to tell me the druid is stronger than in 3.5. If he runs a game I will ask him can I "downgrade." :)
It's the 3.5 spells +Pathfinder classes. Because 3.5 expected you to spend feats for the stuff you just get in Pathfinder. There's also the larger hit die to consider.
I actually think some of the spell lists are better in Pathfinder, specifically the paladin's spell list, I haven't played some of the other caster classes (I despise book keeping, if it's more than an hour of work to build a character, I'm not likely to play that class again, and will probably be looking for another class immediately), but I am willing to bet some of them came out better in Pathfinder.
Mostly looking at Bard, as I had a recent experience where my entire (although mostly useless anyway) group got steam-rolled, not once, but twice in the same session by two different bards.
Edit: Quasi-related. I did have one GM let me bring in a pathfinder character once, keep in mind this is a gm who likes to power game and compete with his players (he wasn't always like this, once upon a time it wasn't about beating each other, this is why I accepted, I hadn't known he had turned into a complete jerk), he has some exceedingly complicated rules for character creation (2e honor, family class, and psionics, plus some of his own stuff that happens to look a hell of a lot like BESM d20, several options out of 3.5 complete arcana, including gestalt, and finally several rolls out of the very defunct Arduin Grimoire, which he wings into being functional in 3.5. Yes, it's that bad.), but it let me build concepts I couldn't otherwise build, because no one would run a game like that.
I built a Half-Celestial Aasimar Paladin/Rogue, because hey 5/8ths god right? Evasion, never at a loss for magical weapons, I could deal with traps, and smite people into the next century. Suffice to say, I was thrown out in the second session (which I didn't attend, because the GM didn't deem to tell me about it) because despite all the horrific things available in 3.5, my concept character was "broken". I will never figure out why or how.
Funny though, he has a half a page, in his mess of rules, stating specifically "NO PATHFINDER!", to this very day I laugh, knowing that I got that rule put in place, and that it isn't the only one.
stuff about PF
As to the paladin he probably did not read the rules for Pathfinder and thought it would be like the 3.5 paladin. That one gave GM's nightmares at first since many people had a hard time adapting to it.
I would have love to have seen his reaction to smite. That would have been priceless.|
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stuff about PFAs to the paladin he probably did not read the rules for Pathfinder and thought it would be like the 3.5 paladin. That one gave GM's nightmares at first since many people had a hard time adapting to it.
I would have love to have seen his reaction to smite. That would have been priceless.
Never got to use it, first session was roleplay heavy, I made a DC 30 save (one of the retarded things from the Arduin Grimoire is apparently a 25 baseline charisma, and I put every racial bonus I could into the stat), because I rolled really good. There was some other stuff here and there, that I never even got to tell him about, because I didn't have it yet.... or show off, like having +20 in every Knowledge skill, (one of his custom things was dirt cheap, gave +10 to knowledge skill rolls, I think it was the education feat, a really high int, and 1 skill point into every skill), or smite, or anything really.
What really kills me about it all, is that I told him what I was capable of, what I was doing, how I was doing it, and why. I never do anything without showing my GM, because I want to make sure I'm correct, and more importantly that it isn't going to be one of those points they flip on.
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That's a DM that makes me sad, Kais. :(
He used to not be so bad, he was always bad, but I got to do stuff I'd never been allowed to do before. When he first came up it wasn't about trying to defeat each other. I'm not entirely sure what it was about, but it wasn't trying to defeat each other....I think. My goal was to change the world, get rid of his incredibly obnoxious taxes he put on all the magic items, but he left before I got high enough level to fight cities properly.
The first sign I got that he was a complete douchebag, was when he came back, and said "your character from last time is dead, the cave collapsed and killed him". This was mind-boggling, I had a planeshift snap-stick as I was calling them. Basically it's a single-use item that casts a spell for you, if you knew where to break them, were the right alignment, and had the right skill (in this case, I used sewing, to be somewhat ironic). I wasn't even given a chance to save the character.
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I'm sure that once Pathfinder has been out for a few more years and has more support material available, people will complain about how unbalanced it can be too if a player uses a particular build based on combining material from multiple splatbooks.
I think it will take Pathfinder longer to reach that point than it took 3.5 simply because Paizo isn't pumping out as much material, but I'm sure that it will happen within a decade or so - it simply isn't possible to build something as complex as an RPG without introducing some bugs here and there. That's why every GM has the awesome power of Rule 0 at their fingertips ;)
Mind you, Paizo's quality control is higher than that of WotC towards the end of the 3.5 era - the fact that Paizo conducts public playtests of major rules elements ensures that they are thoroughly vetted by the community before they go to print. Plus some hard lessons from the d20 boom years have been learned. A lot of the 3PP material coming out for Pathfinder is better than the 'official' material released in the twilight of the 3.5 era
I use some things I converted from 3.5 Core and 3PP.
Classes : Scout, Warmage, Hexblade, Warlock, Pit fighter, Acrobat.
Gear : Most of MIC, gear from the environmental books.
Spells : From the Spell Compendium, but it's spell by spell basis.
However, with my latest game, I'm going PF primarily (CRB, APG, GMG, BI, BII, UM). 95% of the things in the world will be PF core rules. However, I'm reserving the right to bring in some spells and equipment, but most of the equipment from MIC that I bring in will be specifically placed magic items, or modified versions.
Well I technically do because I'm DMing Curse of the Crimson Throne, however I will have to convert items like change gloves of dexterity to a belt of dexterity and so on.
Also using monsters from 3.x materials to surprise players, including WotC stuff like Mindflayers or other powerful magic users that could either be well hidden in Golarian (either hidden in the darklands or on another part of Golarion unmapped) or perhaps some kind of rift between dimensions to end up there.
There are also tons of interesting monsters from other monster manuels as well that could be used as something from a hidden forest or ruins like weird constructs never seen for thousands of years or some kind of hidden fey. Most of this can be done with Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary, which Paizo still use as shown in their APs.
There is a Dread Wight monk, a member of the whispering way showing that they are still using templates from Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary.
Beyond monsters and templates, that's it. I don't allow feats or other things from 3.x sources.
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edit:Strangely enough I had some guy try to tell me the druid is stronger than in 3.5. If he runs a game I will ask him can I "downgrade." :)
Obviously, he never had 3.5 druids turn into cave bears at level 7 and get 24 con and 30 something strenthg and keep their mental stats, and with simple addition of naturall spell, be unstoppable monsters.
I run a Planescape campaign. I use the 2nd edition background, the PF rules (PH, B1 and APG) and also some of the 3.5 books :
- planar handbook (spells, prestige classes, swordling & bariaur race only)
- manual of the planes
- book of exalted deeds
- fiendish codex 1 & 2
- stormwrack
... and of course, I use slaadi, ghereleth (Fiend Folio), rilmani (Fiend Folio) and several other planar monsters.
Absolutely we use 3.5e material in our games. We didn't stay with Pathfinder to ignore that juicy 3.5e compatibility. That being said, some specific material that wasn't allowed while playing 3.5e remains banned. Point is: nothing has changed.
Edit: I forgot - I make heavy use out of the Magic Item Compendium, as core magic items are always overpriced and uninteresting, and everything just becomes about the "big six," whereas the MIC gives me a ton of really flavorful, fun items that characters of all levels, particularly the 1-6 range that I prefer, can actually benefit from and use.
Can't believe I forgot to put that in my post. I too use the MIC quite a bit. Mostly for custom weapons that I tailor to the PCs after a few sessions, and they either find them as treasure, or they are given to them as gifts from important NPCs.
I also use the various Monster Manuals. Thinking of doing a campaign someday based around the Spawn of Tiamat. :p
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I do access some of 3.5's materials from time to time. Usually PrC's for my BBEGs. Though, I still tend to to go, Spellthief/Wizard/Spellwarp Sniper and then add Arcane Trickster.
For spells and feats though, it's a case by case for me. Just depending on what the character concept and the skill of the player.
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Yup. I'm running Eberron under Pathfinder at the FLGS, and I'm allowing most of the Eberron books as sources with some conversion(Most of the length of that doc is listing the pathfinderized skill req's for feats.)
If someone wanted to use something from a 3.5 book that wasn't on that list I would always consider it (so long as it wasn't from a Mongoose book.)
We talk about it, and occasionally an item will pop up from 3.5 (I gave out a Ring of Communication for plot reasons in a game I'm running). Occasionally a feat or spell will get discussed, and either disallowed or ok'd and swiftly forgotten about in favor of a PFRPG option. It's funny, we picked up Pathfinder to be able to continue to use all of the 3.x stuff we like, but now all of those books are gathering dust and we don't come to the table with books that were published for anything but PFRPG.
i've converted a few spells over from 3.5, and I still use a lot of the material from Lieber Mortis, the Aberrations book, and the source books on the Nine Hells and the Abyss.
that's about it tho. quite frankly, the pathfinder stuff that's currently out works pretty well for just about everything I and my players might want to do.
I use 3.5 material with PF, that's kinda the point after all heh. It's not that hard to convert things any way.
We allow 3.5 stuff, even the occasional 3.0 item makes it in. We play pf because it's backwards compatable, and generally more balanced than 3.5. Of course the two games we currently have going are a home brew world and eberron. That said I think we run a fairly permissive game for a couple reasons. 1 its supposed to be fun, 2 no matter how cheesy that fighter build is, it still doesn't beat 9th level spells, and 3 there's really only 2 players with powergaming tendencies. One of them is awful at it, and the other (myself) makes a concious effort to scale back any horrid idea that comes up.
I'm actually suprised at how many people seem to ban older material outright. We've all invested in books over the years, why let that stuff gather dust when you could use it?
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Currently I am running CoT with no 3.5 allowed. This is just because I wanted my first Pathfinder game to be Pathfinder only so i could form an opinion of the system based on it's own merits. The next game I run will likely allow 3.5 material with DM approval. {and psionics, lots and lots of psionics.}
The real problem with the 3.5 stuff was the core rules failure to rein in addons firmly. Allowing EVERYTHING is as a bad an idea as refusing to use any 3.5 material.
Besides, I'm a lazy bum, unwilling to reinvent the wheel just because it's not Pf.
Obviously, he never had 3.5 druids turn into cave bears at level 7 and get 24 con and 30 something strenthg and keep their mental stats, and with simple addition of naturall spell, be unstoppable monsters.
edit:Strangely enough I had some guy try to tell me the druid is stronger than in 3.5. If he runs a game I will ask him can I "downgrade." :)
If he ever runs a game I want in. I built a 3.5 druid for the first time ever and I understood what Codzilla meant at that point. Normally my first attempt at a class sucks, but not the druid. We then switch to pathfinder before I got to try the 3.5 druid out and I was like this thing sucks, but I was up to challenge, and I realized it did not suck I just had to get used to the changes.
Actually I would probably scour the internet for a build to show him first instead of being a jerk just to prove a point, even though I want to see that condescending smirk wiped from his face. I am too lazy to build something, just to prove a point, and not use it.
I use a few things here & there. Some feats, some spells, some classes. I look to see if it covered by the existing PF material first. I also like some of the rule books, like Stormwrack. There is quite a bit of 3pp stuf I use for campaign flavor, too.
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As a DM, I might use a 3.5 adventure, setting or monster here or there if the situation called for it. (It hasn't so far, I bailed on my Eberron conversion first session in. I've since been too in love with Golarion to consider running any other setting.)
As for Players using 3.5 materials? Hell no.
I do! I convert it to Pathfinder before it goes into print, but I still put things from 3.5 sourcebooks like Advanced Bestiary, Book of Fiends, and the Tome of Horrors into Pathfinder books. (In fact, one of the many reasons we wanted the game to stay compatible with 3.5 was because I wanted to keep using 3.5 3rd party books like those in Adventure Paths and the like.)
Am I the only one who lol'd a little at this? I'm not sure it still counts as 3.5 when the Editor-in-Chief converts it to Pathfinder. At that point, I think it's pretty much official Pathfinder material then.
Hell yeah, on a limited basis:
The weapon style feats from CW:
High Sword, Low axe
Three Mountains
etc.
Leap Attack is allowed.
Shock Trooper is Banned.
From PHB2:
Melee Weapon Mastery
Melee Weapon Supremacy
Slashing Flurry
Two Weapon Pounce
Rolibars Gambit
and all the Combat form feats are allowed.
TO9S:
the manuvere/stance feats are allowed
(but follow the 1/2 initiatior rule)
Spell Comp is allowed, in fact, encouraged for rangers and bards, paladins due to a lack of good core spell variety
(Avasculate is banned)
NO 3.5 Prcs or Classes
NO 3.5 DMM or Metamagic
are we seeing a pattern here.
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I use 3.X with my Pathfinder Games. I decided to keep the players crunch out like Classes, spells, magic items, etc I do use my bestiary books and I have pulled idea from Monster Manuals I - V, Fiend Folio, Fiendish Codex I & II, and Lords of Madness(such a great book).
I also ran a brief Scarred Lands(anyone even remember it?) games using Pathfinder Rules. It had a rich background. I didn't really used the crunch aspect of Scarred Lands more the fluff of Ghelspad and I did use some of the monsters from the Creature Collections.
Yes we allow 3.5 material on a case-by-case basis. There are some concepts/rules that PF hasn't or can't(legally) use, mostly feats, magic items and PRC.
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I allow it all; always have: every book for 3.5, official or not, including Pathfinder. My only rule? Players must have the source material at the gaming table; oh, and, nothing illegal is ever allowed; never!
I call it my evil DM curveball. Yes, how i love throwing them at my gamers.
The Mighty Thoth-Amon leaves his mental signature.
I will on a case-by-case basis, but I don't think my players have even cracked open their 3.5 books in over a year.
-The Beast
Pathfinder for the basic rules, homebrewed stuff of mine and 3.5 material as approved by me. I never felt the need to use "everything" for 3.5 whether WotC of 3PP. Being selective and modifying as needed does it for me.
I can understand the allure of going "strictly PF", but there are too many good things out there to ignore completely. And I like my own stuff :)
DO YOU USE 3.5 MATERIAL IN PF?
Yes, I do. After all, one of the main reasons I moved to Pathfinder after my short trip through 4e was that I would get to use my 3.5 library.
I use the exact same approach I used back in 3.5: I determine which books would fit with the kind of campaign I'm running (no Frostburn in my Katapesh campaign, for instance), and then tell the players that if they find something in them they'd like, they can present it to me to see if I allow it, forbid it, or allow it with some changes. And it works wonders.
Currently we're using stuff from The Complete Book of Eldritch Might and the Libris Mortis, and probably will allow stuff from the Manual of the Planes later on when it fits. And save for a couple of small changes, it's all great.
I'm currently running Curse of the Crimson Throne converted to Pathfinder. It's my first Pathfinder game, so starting out (we're only two sessions in) I'm not allowing anything but Pathfinder. After I get a volume or two into the campaign though I will probably open it up.
That being said, I'll be limiting what is available. I'll allow classes from different 3.5 sources as long as they can balance reasonably easy and aren't made redundant with what Pathfinder already has available. Feats and spells will be judged on a case by case situation. With spells the magic using players will have to research each one (as they wouldn't be readily available in the campaign setting otherwise). Magic items from 3.5 material may crop up as as treasure, but will be limited in town for purchase. I'm not a big fan of Prestige Classes, so these will be limited. Monsters are pretty much the only thing that I will use unlimited (just making the tweaks as/if needed). I have a wide swath of 3.5 books, and I'm willing to use the "generic" non campaign specific ones as resources. The campaign setting books however will be limited, and anything used from them by the players need to have a very good reason (from the players) as to why it has appeared, or how it functions, in Golarion.
On a case by case basis. There was a lot of really good 3.5 material and I'm not going to throw away hundreds of dollars' worth of books just because parts of them got updated.
i use the feats from the complete series, some books (heroes of battle and horror, ravenloft feats and spells, spell compendium, eberron houses... also tome of magic and combat, any weapon and armor book, some conan and diablo, starwars campaign rules) i use anything to make the adventure epc, and funny (scary one cause im a horror setting dm, i still waiting the ustalav setting to fit my campaign in there)
My gaming group as a general rule uses 3.5 stuff from the Complete Series, the Spell and Magic Item Compendiums (Compendii?) and the Tome of Battle.
Admittedly this allows some really silly cheese into our games, but we voulentarily avoid the worst of that sort of thing
If I start running a PF game again, I'd probably consider most 3.5 equipment, feats or spells on a case-by-case basis. For example, I have no problem with a fighter who wants to pick Superior Unarmed Strike to be a non-monk martial artist like a wrestler or a pankratist.
the Spell and Magic Item Compendiums (Compendii?)
"Compendia" seems most elegant, although my research indicates that both it and "compendiums" are correct.
For my campaigns, I allow pretty much all WotC 3.5 material. I bought those books, I'm damn well going to get mileage out of them! That, and I'm crazy like that.
However, I do ask players to inform me of what they are taking so that I can tweak the rules to update them to PF standards. I don't mind my players going crazy with options, because I love doing so with my NPCs. :)
I allow 3.5 material subject to approval by the GM. Frankly, I will allow most things, but I haven't had any requests. All players are happy exploring Pathfinder options for the time being.
So actual 3.5 content currently in our homebrew campaign is limited to monsters that I use to keep players on their toes.
EDIT: I also use some spells out of the BoVD for that "you just did WHAT?" responses that are memorable. The one that tears off the hand of the target which then begins attacking the PC is a personal favorite. The first time I used that one was a classic... Ah good times! Players still talk about it.