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| 7 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
So my search-Fu turned up a couple of references, but I didn't find anything official. It appears to me that the Qinggong Monk either can stack with all other Monk archetypes or can only use the base class. It depends on how you read the section about selecting powers. Do you have to have all class abilities available to be selected from, or if another archetype replaces that power does that just take it off the list of things the Qinggong monk can swap out?
For example at level 11 the Drunken Master archetype replaces Diamond Body with Drunken Courage. Does this mean that the Qinggong Monk can't select a ki power at level 11, or does that mean that Qinggong is not a valid choice in the first place since Diamond Body has been replaced by another Archetype?
Since you CAN select a power but are not required to, I personally lean towards it just taking the replaced abilities "off the menu" for the Qinggong Monk, but has anyone seen anything official?
In order to take an archetype that ability it replace must be available. That is why you can't take two archtypes that replace the same ability, but you can take two that don't.
If by official you mean FAQ or errata no, but when archetypes first came out the double archetype thing was deemed legal by a dev under the above circumstances. I will look for the post again later.
So my search-Fu turned up a couple of references, but I didn't find anything official. It appears to me that the Qinggong Monk either can stack with all other Monk archetypes or can only use the base class. It depends on how you read the section about selecting powers. Do you have to have all class abilities available to be selected from, or if another archetype replaces that power does that just take it off the list of things the Qinggong monk can swap out?
For example at level 11 the Drunken Master archetype replaces Diamond Body with Drunken Courage. Does this mean that the Qinggong Monk can't select a ki power at level 11, or does that mean that Qinggong is not a valid choice in the first place since Diamond Body has been replaced by another Archetype?
Since you CAN select a power but are not required to, I personally lean towards it just taking the replaced abilities "off the menu" for the Qinggong Monk, but has anyone seen anything official?
I think you can't swap abilities the other archetype swaps. I wish they used the word "MAY" select a power.
I don't know... CAN you? lol *Elementary school flashbacks*
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In order to stack multiple archetypes, each archetype must replace different powers.
Since the entry for the qinggong monk uses the word "can", each power is addressed on an individual basis.
In this circumstance, the qinggong archetype would not be able to replace any of the class features that the second archetype replaced, but would be able to change any other legal class feature.
+1 this is how I read it too.
Which is awesome because it means there is finally an archetype that can stack with Zen Archer!
:D
hate to necro and I do apologize but was this ruling ever made official via either FAQ or errata? Nothink is listed in the FAQ link for UM (where Qinggong monk appears) but not all FAQs seem to reach the list ... I'm looking at you "FAQ That Time Forgot"
Is the Qinggong monk archetype actually viable to mix with pretty much every other monk archetype?
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There has still been no official word on this. All you have is the numerous threads from various parties that fall into one of two camps. Since the rules for archetypes state "A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the core class as another alternate class feature", it comes down to whether making those class features optional counts as "altering" them.
There has still been no official word on this. All you have is the numerous threads from various parties that fall into one of two camps. Since the rules for archetypes state "A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the core class as another alternate class feature", it comes down to whether making those class features optional counts as "altering" them.
And since I said something about this in the other thread where it was off topic, I'll say it here too.
I don't think "whether making those class features optional counts as 'altering' them" is fair phrasing.
QM doesn't make those class features anything, it gives you the option to replace or not replace certain class features.
It is optional which class feature to take, but the class features themselves are not given a blanket alteration to append "optional" to them. The 'optional' comes from an archetype special, not altered class features.
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There has still been no official word on this. All you have is the numerous threads from various parties that fall into one of two camps. Since the rules for archetypes state "A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the core class as another alternate class feature", it comes down to whether making those class features optional counts as "altering" them.And since I said something about this in the other thread where it was off topic, I'll say it here too.
I don't think "whether making those class features optional counts as 'altering' them" is fair phrasing.
QM doesn't make those class features anything, it gives you the option to replace or not replace certain class features.
It is optional which class feature to take, but the class features themselves are not given a blanket alteration to append "optional" to them. The 'optional' comes from an archetype special, not altered class features.
I used to have a card that allowed me to get an apple. Then the store let me know that my card could instead be used for an apple, a pear, or an orange. They altered the way that my card works.
Now replace "card" with class feature and "apple" and the various other fruits with the name of said class feature and it's Qinggong alternatives. See how that works?
There has still been no official word on this. All you have is the numerous threads from various parties that fall into one of two camps. Since the rules for archetypes state "A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the core class as another alternate class feature", it comes down to whether making those class features optional counts as "altering" them.And since I said something about this in the other thread where it was off topic, I'll say it here too.
I don't think "whether making those class features optional counts as 'altering' them" is fair phrasing.
QM doesn't make those class features anything, it gives you the option to replace or not replace certain class features.
It is optional which class feature to take, but the class features themselves are not given a blanket alteration to append "optional" to them. The 'optional' comes from an archetype special, not altered class features.
I used to have a card that allowed me to get an apple. Then the store let me know that my card could instead be used for an apple, a pear, or an orange. They altered the way that my card works.
Now replace "card" with class feature and "apple" and the various other fruits with the name of said class feature and it's Qinggong alternatives. See how that works?
I had a dog. It barked when people came to the door.
That's just about as related to the topic.
Your analogy doesn't even have a referent for the archetype.
I used to have a card that allowed me to get an apple. Then the store let me know that my card could instead be used for an apple, a pear, or an orange. They altered the way that my card works.
Now replace "card" with class feature and "apple" and the various other fruits with the name of said class feature and it's Qinggong alternatives. See how that works?
BUT you still have the option of using the card to buy only apples. Thats the difference between altering the archetype and altering the singular class ability. You can still use said card to buy apples in the exact same way as before, aka unaltered. So Basically to bring it back to Pathfinder, you altered the monk class to allow for other options but the options do not need to be taken, leaving the options not chosen exactly the same way they were.