I was wondering if the Scroll Sword/Shield can be used for TWF? It seems really silly to shield bash with a scroll but it looks like it can be done.
Anyone else up for a TWF EK Scrollmaster?
I am very much thinking the same thing.
Shield slam with a scroll --
To quote the late Captain Hook:
I like it! I like it! I LOVE it!
I am very much thinking the same thing.
Shield slam with a scroll --
To quote the late Captain Hook:
I like it! I like it! I LOVE it!
Just put a couple of true strike scrolls on your person, tactically hidden of course, and you're golden.
I've not seen the class, but from all the hype it's going to be a cool class.
However, I can't get the visual out of my head of an old man dual wielding rolled up newspapers slapping people in the face. It's quite comical.
I've not seen the class, but from all the hype it's going to be a cool class.
However, I can't get the visual out of my head of an old man dual wielding rolled up newspapers slapping people in the face. It's quite comical.
The key is saying, "BAD! BAD BOY! NO BISCUIT FOR YOU!" while doing it.
Imagine two of them fighting each other: Scrolls lighting up left and right as they activate while two fierce Wizard Warriors go at it in a fight with the fate of the Multiverse on the line. Scroll shreds litter the field of battle as the two unmatched intellects dodge and parry the others' scrolls and spells. Two men, nay, demigods entered this fight. One will leave victorious; his enemy's scrolls the symbol of his victory.
Seems a cool concept, but the wizard has bad base attack, hp and defenses to be in direct combat.
This alternate class feature reminds me of Sheena Fuyibayashi from Tales of Symphonia XD.
Seems a cool concept, but the wizard has bad base attack, hp and defenses to be in direct combat.
This alternate class feature reminds me of Sheena Fuyibayashi from Tales of Symphonia XD.
Eldritch Knight. Fighter 1/Wizard 9 (i'd go 10 for the use your caster level and stats for scrolls)/ EK 10 (9) Gives you a BAB of...15? Not looking at it so I might be off.
Edit: Take Magical Knack for a trait and you don't even lose the 2 CL from multiclassing. Also your hp would be 11d10+9d6+(20xcon mod). Defenses? You're a wizard. figure it out.
"A scrollmaster cannot wield two scrollblades at the same time."
"A scrollmaster cannot wield two scrollblades at the same time."
But they can bash with their scrollshield, or use the scrollblade and a regular weapon.
"A scrollmaster cannot wield two scrollblades at the same time."
That's a good mechanic to add. I haven't actually read the class since I do not have the book yet. :-(
However, the comment was intended for comic relief.
"A scrollmaster cannot wield two scrollblades at the same time."That's a good mechanic to add. I haven't actually read the class since I do not have the book yet. :-(
Fortunately, it's in the description of the ability, not something I added just now. :)
Seems a cool concept, but the wizard has bad base attack, hp and defenses to be in direct combat.
This alternate class feature reminds me of Sheena Fuyibayashi from Tales of Symphonia XD.
Rita Mordio from Tales of Vesperia for me. She literally used scrolls (and ribbons) as weapons, slashing people with them as she fought.
-The Beast
Having recently read the Scrollmaster over at d20pfsrd, I submit that you should transpose the "T" and the "W" in your title.
My first impression on the abilities and flavor of this class is that it's ridiculous, even for a game where 10-ton lizards fly and breathe fire, and people can teleport and shoot fireballs.
"A scrollmaster cannot wield two scrollblades at the same time."
Wasn't planning on wielding 2 of em, was planning on shield bashing with it. Btw, SKR, will Shield Slam (and/or any other shield feats) apply to the scroll shield?
Having recently read the Scrollmaster over at d20pfsrd, I submit that you should transpose the "T" and the "W" in your title.
My first impression on the abilities and flavor of this class is that it's ridiculous, even for a game where 10-ton lizards fly and breathe fire, and people can teleport and shoot fireballs.
You have obviously never watched Read Or Die (AKA RoD). If yo uhad, it wouldn't seem all that silly. It's basically magically enhancing the paper to turn it into a weapon.
Having recently read the Scrollmaster over at d20pfsrd, I submit that you should transpose the "T" and the "W" in your title.
My first impression on the abilities and flavor of this class is that it's ridiculous, even for a game where 10-ton lizards fly and breathe fire, and people can teleport and shoot fireballs.
Really? Why do you say that? I mean you can be a 3 foot tall person summoning lightning while telling your pet Grizzly Bear to attack an amorphous blob but this is too cheesy?
the description of the option mentiones that the scroll wizard often has one scroll in each hand. So he doesn't use one as either weapon or shield.
Now it says that he can't dual wield them, however he can use it as weapon and shield, and a shield as a weapon. (argument might be, specific beats general on that last point)
I must admit that it would be easy to convince most GM's that the restriction is meant to prohibit to gain the magic bonus on offense twice. Thus allow shieldbashing.
Also I can't see the harm in it, because most people wouldn't enchant their scrolls with additional offensive material.
Sooner or later a FAQ entry would be nice in my humble opinion.
The scrollshield acts like a shield. Why wouldn't you be able to shield bash with it?
Adding to the Cheddar: Spiked Scroll Shield :D
p.s. I know it can't be done!
The scrollshield acts like a shield. Why wouldn't you be able to shield bash with it?
Why not allow bashing to be on the list of relevant abilities to be put on it once you're able to make scrolls of a high enough level?
took me a while to understand the why, but I think I got it now.
Shield Bash Attack is an entry at the description of the equipment Shield, Light; Wooden or Steel.
The scrollshield however repeats that it's wooden (one entry under the shield equipment) but it doesn't repeat the shield bash, so it can't bash.
Or was the explanation as simple as : It doesn't make sense if you picture it?
Another simpler question would be:
can I further enchant my scrolls as weapon/shield?
most likely not, as it only acts like a weapon in the hands of the scroll wizard.
So a shield-bash with a mundane shield is often not that useful anyhow :)
took me a while to understand the why, but I think I got it now.
Shield Bash Attack is an entry at the description of the equipment Shield, Light; Wooden or Steel.
The scrollshield however repeats that it's wooden (one entry under the shield equipment) but it doesn't repeat the shield bash, so it can't bash.
Or was the explanation as simple as : It doesn't make sense if you picture it?Another simpler question would be:
can I further enchant my scrolls as weapon/shield?
most likely not, as it only acts like a weapon in the hands of the scroll wizard.
So a shield-bash with a mundane shield is often not that useful anyhow :)
True, but the scroll shield gets more abilities and a higher enhancement bonus as you make higher level scrolls. And SKR already said you CAN shield bash with it. it's like 4 posts up.
oh damn, I misread the post. I feel pretty silly right now.
Dual-wielding scrolls (not scroll-blades tough) Wizard away!
oh damn, I misread the post. I feel pretty silly right now.
Dual-wielding scrolls (not scroll-blades tough) Wizard away!
And the weird part is, while your blade deteriorates from attacking, your shield does not when you shield bash. So, you're actually better off bashing with the shield.
I'm personally going to houserule that you lose an hp on the shield when you shield bash with it.
I was just reading this over, And I was a little Puzzled.
With a Scoll that has any spell level less than 4 on it having only 1 HP, What makes it worth using such a high cost item as a one use weapon? It's not like you can use the attack action with the scroll to deliver Spells, and It even says that The damage to the Scroll can't be Repaired in any way.
I Understand that It's paper that you're swinging around, But to destory the scroll even if you Miss is insane.
after reading and rereading the blurb, It occured to me that the wording makes it seem as if you can still cast spells of a destroyed spellblade. Do you guys think this is the case? If not, could you Please shed some light on this, as I Love the idea for the mechanic, but am Hating the execution.
I was just reading this over, And I was a little Puzzled.
With a Scoll that has any spell level less than 4 on it having only 1 HP, What makes it worth using such a high cost item as a one use weapon? It's not like you can use the attack action with the scroll to deliver Spells, and It even says that The damage to the Scroll can't be Repaired in any way.
I Understand that It's paper that you're swinging around, But to destory the scroll even if you Miss is insane.
after reading and rereading the blurb, It occured to me that the wording makes it seem as if you can still cast spells of a destroyed spellblade. Do you guys think this is the case? If not, could you Please shed some light on this, as I Love the idea for the mechanic, but am Hating the execution.
Activating this ability is a free action. A scroll blade
only retains its abilities in the hands of the scrollmaster.
The scroll blade has hardness 0 and hit points equal
to the highest-level wizard spell on the scroll. Each
successful hit by the scroll blade reduces its hit points
by 1; this damage cannot be repaired, but does not affect
casting from the scroll. When its hit points reach 0, the
scroll is destroyed.
That should clear it up.
Activating this ability is a free action. A scroll blade
only retains its abilities in the hands of the scrollmaster.
The scroll blade has hardness 0 and hit points equal
to the highest-level wizard spell on the scroll. Each
successful hit by the scroll blade reduces its hit points
by 1; this damage cannot be repaired, but does not affect
casting from the scroll. When its hit points reach 0, the
scroll is destroyed.
*sigh* 250gp for a one off weapon, That's just sad.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/images/oots0058.gif
That's what I thought of immediately when I read the Scrollmaster.
*sigh* 250gp for a one off weapon, That's just sad.
Activating this ability is a free action. A scroll blade
only retains its abilities in the hands of the scrollmaster.
The scroll blade has hardness 0 and hit points equal
to the highest-level wizard spell on the scroll. Each
successful hit by the scroll blade reduces its hit points
by 1; this damage cannot be repaired, but does not affect
casting from the scroll. When its hit points reach 0, the
scroll is destroyed.
Not really.
First off, 250gp isn't the cost for any scroll. :)
ON a serious note though, if you have a 4th level scroll, you can get 3 attacks with it before you cast whatever is on it. If it's 4th level or higher (and you're 3rd level or higher), you can boost it with things like Flaming or Shocking. It's also a +1/2 level enhancement weapon, which means that it overcomes DR/Magic when used. It's a situational thing, but if you're planning on carrying a bunch of scrolls, then it's got a lot of things going for it, especially since you're going to use it when you're cornered.
Fortunately, it's in the description of the ability, not something I added just now. :)"A scrollmaster cannot wield two scrollblades at the same time."That's a good mechanic to add. I haven't actually read the class since I do not have the book yet. :-(
I don't have the book yet. ;-(
Scrollmaster seems to be screaming for any feat, arcane discovery and other resources that reduces cost of writing own scrolls.
He would also benefit from feat/discovery that allowed him to scribe multiple scrolls per day (similar to Witch's ability to brew multiple potions per day in her cauldron) and, for all those Anime fans, feat that allowed him to use scroll like a whip (maybe 5 feet of range per level of spell contained on a scroll).
Scrollmaster seems to be screaming for any feat, arcane discovery and other resources that reduces cost of writing own scrolls.
He would also benefit from feat/discovery that allowed him to scribe multiple scrolls per day (similar to Witch's ability to brew multiple potions per day in her cauldron) and, for all those Anime fans, feat that allowed him to use scroll like a whip (maybe 5 feet of range per level of spell contained on a scroll).
You mean, like Lunge? :)
You mean, like Lunge? :)Scrollmaster seems to be screaming for any feat, arcane discovery and other resources that reduces cost of writing own scrolls.
He would also benefit from feat/discovery that allowed him to scribe multiple scrolls per day (similar to Witch's ability to brew multiple potions per day in her cauldron) and, for all those Anime fans, feat that allowed him to use scroll like a whip (maybe 5 feet of range per level of spell contained on a scroll).
Too short. Think of the long, long, flowing, scrolls whipping at enemies at serious range.
Also, spell that would turn scroll-blade into dancing scroll-blade (and scroll-whip into dancing scroll-whip) overriding the limitation of scroll-blade becoming inert after leaving scrollmaster's hand.
At 3rd level, a scrollcaster can reduce a scroll's enhancement bonus by 1 to treat it as a reach weapon.
*sigh* 250gp for a one off weapon, That's just sad.
Activating this ability is a free action. A scroll blade
only retains its abilities in the hands of the scrollmaster.
The scroll blade has hardness 0 and hit points equal
to the highest-level wizard spell on the scroll. Each
successful hit by the scroll blade reduces its hit points
by 1; this damage cannot be repaired, but does not affect
casting from the scroll. When its hit points reach 0, the
scroll is destroyed.
Not really.
First off, 250gp isn't the cost for any scroll. :)
ON a serious note though, if you have a 4th level scroll, you can get 3 attacks with it before you cast whatever is on it. If it's 4th level or higher (and you're 3rd level or higher), you can boost it with things like Flaming or Shocking. It's also a +1/2 level enhancement weapon, which means that it overcomes DR/Magic when used. It's a situational thing, but if you're planning on carrying a bunch of scrolls, then it's got a lot of things going for it, especially since you're going to use it when you're cornered.
Pfffft. Use it when cornered? Hell I've got a 20 lvl character planned out to Sword and Board those little scrolls. Has the same hp (depending on CON mod) as a 20 Cleric, 15 BAB, and 14 feats to use :)
He's Buck McChesney and he likes to f%%% you up.
Honestly, I like the concept, but I think it would have been better if the scroll got a saving throw each time it was used. DC 15, with the check being 1d20 + Max Spell Level. If it succeeds, it is undamaged, if it fails it takes 1 hp of damage. This would make the scrolls more durable, and allow the 0 level scrolls to work without being destroyed with each attack (possibly).
The scrollshield acts like a shield. Why wouldn't you be able to shield bash with it?
I imagine the same 'reason' you couldn't dual-wield scrollblades?
The scrollshield acts like a shield. Why wouldn't you be able to shield bash with it?I imagine the same 'reason' you couldn't dual-wield scrollblades?
Except that the archetype doesn't say "A scrollmaster can't shield bash with a scroll shield."
It does say "A scrollmaster cannot wield two scrollblades at the same time."And it does say "A scrollmaster can use a scrollblade in one hand and a scroll shield in the other."
So the "reason" you can't dual-wield two scrollblades is "the archetype specifically says you can't."
There is no specific restriction against using a scroll shield to shield bash, thus my question of, "why wouldn't you be able to use the scroll shield, which acts like a small wooden shield, if there isn't a specific rule saying you can't use it to shield bash?"
In general, I'm in favor of "it says it works as if it were a light wooden shield, therefore you and the rules treat it as if it were a light wooden shield," rather than "I know we said it works as if it were a light wooden shield, but that's really only for AC and hand-use purposes, and effects that target or effect shields shouldn't work on it because it's not REALLY a shield." Thus, you can shield bash with it (because it's a shield), cast magic vestment on it (because it's a shield), and so on. That's about as un-arbitrary as you can get.
The scrollshield acts like a shield. Why wouldn't you be able to shield bash with it?I imagine the same 'reason' you couldn't dual-wield scrollblades?
Except that the archetype doesn't say "A scrollmaster can't shield bash with a scroll shield."
It does say "A scrollmaster cannot wield two scrollblades at the same time."
And it does say "A scrollmaster can use a scrollblade in one hand and a scroll shield in the other."So the "reason" you can't dual-wield two scrollblades is "the archetype specifically says you can't."
..What? I don't even..
I would presume, as a developer, you could have provided a more substantial explanation or enlightenment into the reason that one CAN'T wield two scrollblades at the same time other than "because it says." OF COURSE IT SAYS. That's how you guys wrote it. The question is, why? The why inherently goes into answering the question of why one can shield bash but not two-weapon fight?
In general, I'm in favor of "it says it works as if it were a light wooden shield, therefore you and the rules treat it as if it were a light wooden shield," rather than "I know we said it works as if it were a light wooden shield, but that's really only for AC and hand-use purposes, and effects that target or effect shields shouldn't work on it because it's not REALLY a shield."
You could say wielding a scrollshield gives a +X shield bonus. Like a Ring of Force Shield. Or Shield. Or Shield of Faith. Or whatever. Moreover, a buckler is a shield that one cannot shield bash with. Yet it is still a shield.
Honestly, I like the concept, but I think it would have been better if the scroll got a saving throw each time it was used. DC 15, with the check being 1d20 + Max Spell Level. If it succeeds, it is undamaged, if it fails it takes 1 hp of damage. This would make the scrolls more durable, and allow the 0 level scrolls to work without being destroyed with each attack (possibly).
I fear this risks to slow down the game.
The scrollshield acts like a shield. Why wouldn't you be able to shield bash with it?I imagine the same 'reason' you couldn't dual-wield scrollblades?
Except that the archetype doesn't say "A scrollmaster can't shield bash with a scroll shield."
It does say "A scrollmaster cannot wield two scrollblades at the same time."
And it does say "A scrollmaster can use a scrollblade in one hand and a scroll shield in the other."So the "reason" you can't dual-wield two scrollblades is "the archetype specifically says you can't."
There is no specific restriction against using a scroll shield to shield bash, thus my question of, "why wouldn't you be able to use the scroll shield, which acts like a small wooden shield, if there isn't a specific rule saying you can't use it to shield bash?"In general, I'm in favor of "it says it works as if it were a light wooden shield, therefore you and the rules treat it as if it were a light wooden shield," rather than "I know we said it works as if it were a light wooden shield, but that's really only for AC and hand-use purposes, and effects that target or effect shields shouldn't work on it because it's not REALLY a shield." Thus, you can shield bash with it (because it's a shield), cast magic vestment on it (because it's a shield), and so on. That's about as un-arbitrary as you can get.
So why did bashing get left off the list of available enchantments you can add to the scroll shield?
Honestly, I like the concept, but I think it would have been better if the scroll got a saving throw each time it was used. DC 15, with the check being 1d20 + Max Spell Level. If it succeeds, it is undamaged, if it fails it takes 1 hp of damage. This would make the scrolls more durable, and allow the 0 level scrolls to work without being destroyed with each attack (possibly).I fear this risks to slow down the game.
Yes, but as it is currently, the concept is either hideously expensive over time (now that I've had the time to do some math), or else you can't use it at all at lower levels (since at lower levels you can only afford cantrip or 1st level scrolls, both of which are destroyed on their first use. With no way to repair the scrolls, you're basically looking at very very expensive ammunition.
It remains a wizard. Essentially is a wizard with an occasional cool special move. I supposed is not conceived to be spammed or so.
It remains a wizard. Essentially is a wizard with an occasional cool special move. I supposed is not conceived to be spammed or so.
It remains a wizard, but you are giving up your arcane bond/familiar and a bonus feat. All for something that is an occasional cool special move. Whereas the familiar is useful all the time, or the bond item which can be used to cast emergency spells. Again, I'm not saying it's awful, just that it is an expensive concept.
It remains a wizard. Essentially is a wizard with an occasional cool special move. I supposed is not conceived to be spammed or so.It remains a wizard, but you are giving up your arcane bond/familiar and a bonus feat. All for something that is an occasional cool special move. Whereas the familiar is useful all the time, or the bond item which can be used to cast emergency spells. Again, I'm not saying it's awful, just that it is an expensive concept.
Dunno - seems that barring few exceptions, a lot of UM options go in this route. Dragonless dragon shaman, paladin oaths...
The advantage here is that true strike and who knows other combos can make this occasionally awesome. I see your point, 'though.