Quick question about 'Detect Magic' as it seems to have made any adventure I run an exercise in gathering magic items as soon as rooms are entered/searched.
Some of the members of the party I am GMing currently continually use 'Detect Magic' to locate any and all magic items anywhere.
I find that it has made having magic items in dungeons a tad boring as the PCs automatically have them - and walk out with everything rather than have the chance of happening across an item that happens to be magical and have more power.
An example, that irritated me at the time - room description states that the chest (containing a magic item/potion) cannot be seen without a Perception check DC20 as it is hidden behind a thick veil of cobwebs - bard fails perception check - cannot see chest. So, then casts detect magic and 'must then see the magic auras emanating from the chest that he cannot see' and proceeds to find it and empty it, rather than any other members of the party searching and actually finding the chest via a successful roll.
It makes a mockery of getting my PCs to search areas for items as all this player does it cast detect magic rather than search.
Is this correct - I'm still new to GMing and would appreciate any advice on how to handle this or clarification if this should be the case.
Thanks,
Paul
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First off, I'd say that this is an appropriate use of Detect Magic in this case.
However, Detect Magic isn't the be-all and end-all of detection. First off, it requires concentration, so keeping Detect Magic up requires your standard action every round.
Secondly, they probably missed the coin pouch on the other side of the room, since there was nothing magic in it. Don't forget you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket.
Thridly, you can make a character go mad with lingering auras. The detector will pick up a magical aura for something that isn't there anymore.
Finally, remember that the detection is blocked by 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt. So, you can't use Detect Magic to locate decently-buried treasure, or items in a lead-lined container, or on the other side of the stone wall. It also only has a range of 60 feet, which might not be enough in some cases.
Hiding magic items in relatively plain view doesn't really work. However, there are plenty of things you can do to make sure that Perception matters for searching, and there remains a good market for nonmagical tricks and traps for this reason.
A magic trap on mundane (even masterwork) items will still radiate magic. So do cursed items. Items that they aren't going to use or want will still radiate magic. These all should be used very sparingly but should help reduce your problems.
Also, part of the game is about gathering magic items. They still need to determine what the items do. They will still need to use their skills and other magic to figure things out. They have invested spells and skill ranks for this purpose. Let them have it, but not all the time.
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Thridly, you can make a character go mad with lingering auras. The detector will pick up a magical aura for something that isn't there anymore.Finally, remember that the detection is blocked by 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt. So, you can't use Detect Magic to locate decently-buried treasure, or items in a lead-lined container, or on the other side of the stone wall. It also only has a range of 60 feet, which might not be enough in some cases.
Hiding magic items in relatively plain view doesn't really work. However, there are plenty of things you can do to make sure that Perception matters for searching, and there remains a good market for nonmagical tricks and traps for this reason.
Really keep these factors in mind. This used to bother me. Then I was like WTF there has to be a way to 'stop' this! So I went and read the spell again...so again just keep in mind the limitations!
Also if you place any cursed items in your campaign make sure you are aware of the rules on identifing them as well. Just recently I used the Cloak of Immolation from the APG. It was awesome!
player: Cloak of Protection! Awesome I put it on!
dm: Roll a d6
player: ummm, ok..4
dm: You take 4 fire damage as the cloak combusts!
other party members: wtf!
dm: rd two, roll a d6 again
player: ahhhh
It was hilarious the kept creating water on top of him to extinguish the flames! They thought it was extinguished at first, continued the adventure. Enough time elapsed for the cloak to dry out...and bam combustion again! lol.
Quick question about 'Detect Magic' as it seems to have made any adventure I run an exercise in gathering magic items as soon as rooms are entered/searched.
Some of the members of the party I am GMing currently continually use 'Detect Magic' to locate any and all magic items anywhere.
I find that it has made having magic items in dungeons a tad boring as the PCs automatically have them - and walk out with everything rather than have the chance of happening across an item that happens to be magical and have more power.
An example, that irritated me at the time - room description states that the chest (containing a magic item/potion) cannot be seen without a Perception check DC20 as it is hidden behind a thick veil of cobwebs - bard fails perception check - cannot see chest. So, then casts detect magic and 'must then see the magic auras emanating from the chest that he cannot see' and proceeds to find it and empty it, rather than any other members of the party searching and actually finding the chest via a successful roll.
It makes a mockery of getting my PCs to search areas for items as all this player does it cast detect magic rather than search.
Is this correct - I'm still new to GMing and would appreciate any advice on how to handle this or clarification if this should be the case.
Thanks,
Paul
I feel your pain. I am not new to GMing and the over-use of detect magic is a little irritating. My group does the exact same thing. The suggestions above are good ones.
MD
I cast detect magic on this thread.
I don't find anything thematically wrong with magic-users being able to sense magic auras. You just need to account for it ahead of time.
I do highly recommend announcing that magic traps and invisible creatures must still be detected via normal means, and that detect magic only gives them a Perception bonus (I use +5).
Beyond that, have fun with it. The mage can "sense a disturbance in the force..." and there's not much wrong with that.
Just hide your items behind stone walls if you want them to dig for their treasure.
I cast detect magic on this thread.
And you are promptly overwhelmed by the aura emanating from my footie pajamas; I knew I should have washed them more often ...
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The chest in the OPs original example would not have exhibited magic auras from the items inside since the thickness of the chest itself would have blocked it.
As long as you keep to the rules for the use and application of detect magic things should run smoothly for you. It isn't the end all of detection spells by a long shot as such auras can easily be blocked or hidden.
The spell Magic Aura sole purpose is for hiding and creating false magical auras.
The chest in the OPs original example would not have exhibited magic auras from the items inside since the thickness of the chest itself would have blocked it.
Only if it was an extraordinary chest. Most common examples would be constructed of wood, far less than the requisite three feet of thickness.
I cast detect magic on this thread.And you are promptly overwhelmed by the aura emanating from my footie pajamas; I knew I should have washed them more often ...
I roll my spellcraft check; do I understand this to be a cloudkill spell?
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The The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it. bit is very important. Lead is very malleable so thin sheet of lead can be made to conform to containers and block any detecting of goods inside it. Creatures in a world where detect magic is very easy will take precautions to prevent said detection.
Wear a lead helmet, like Magneto, and you're immune to detect thoughts! Bwahahahahahahaha!
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Also, do not forget the Magic Aura spell.
This could be a great way for a local monster to prey on adventuring parties. Since they are looking for magic items, it could cast this on a well trapped chest with nothing but coin inside. And jump them while they play with the trap.
Also good for putting on the chest so that detect magic will not find it.
Thanks for all the replies; you've given me some great ideas and helped clarify the uses of the spell and how I can 'have fun' with it.
Cheers,
Paul
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I'm thankful to Jess Door for the houserule that solved all of our detect magic woes:
Range: Touch.
Yeah, seeing magic auras is thematic and all, but there are already 3rd and higher level spells for that.
I've ALWAYS been a fan of Detect Magic being a 'touch' spell...
Last time I tried running a 2nd edition game, I made the same switch. ACTUALLY... What i did was give wizards the option of 'sensing' the magic in items... and they could even determine the strength of the aura. However if they wanted to see it across the room or know what school it was, then they had to memorize/cast the spell...
My goal had been to clear up some 1st level slots... but the result was the same :)
Game didn't last long enough for me to determine success or not >.<
to be honest the direction that Pathfinder is going, makes me wonder why they didn't just take that last jump and make it a natural ability to see auras. As it is, it's a zero level spell.. and you can cast it as often as you want...
Sorcerers don't even have to worry about spell slots with it.
But yeah... if you make the chests an inch of metal... they can't see through them :) Easiest fix!
I too have a lot of already inplace protections from Detect Magic in place. Lead lined secret compartments, impossible to activate Magic Mouth spells, standard use of Magic Aura by crafty spellcasters, etc.
You can have fun as a GM with this.
After one adventure, I had my players explain to one of the local nobles why they were trying to sell him fakes, as the weapons that they were passing off a magic were not!
I also let my players know that they missed several nice magic items, as they only grabbed the "obviously" magic ones and left the rest.
I have had my players run in fear from a low level mage, because when they used Detect Magic on him, he lit up like sun with the glow from all the "magic items" on him.
My players are now much more careful about their use of the spell and take nothing for granted.
And also keep in mind it takes three rounds to find something with it:
1st Round: Presence or absence of magical auras.
2nd Round: Number of different magical auras and the power of the most potent aura.
3rd Round: The strength and location of each aura. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Knowledge (arcana) skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura: DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + 1/2 caster level for a nonspell effect.) If the aura eminates from a magic item, you can attempt to identify its properties (see Spellcraft).
An example, that irritated me at the time - room description states that the chest (containing a magic item/potion) cannot be seen without a Perception check DC20 as it is hidden behind a thick veil of cobwebs - bard fails perception check - cannot see chest. So, then casts detect magic and 'must then see the magic auras emanating from the chest that he cannot see' and proceeds to find it and empty it, rather than any other members of the party searching and actually finding the chest via a successful roll.
There is no rule that says a hidden item is easy to spot with Detect Magic. If a magic item is in a chest and hidden under a bunch of cobwebs. It is not obvious even with the dim glow of magic from within. You could simply give a circumstance bonus on perception rolls when finding hidden items with detect magic. If it is a DC 20 to spot normally make it a DC 15 or DC 10 to spot it after a detect magic goes up. If you think that weakens the spell too much, then tell them they detect magic aura without a search, but cannot pinpoint it, then allow the search at a DC 10 or DC 15.
An example, that irritated me at the time - room description states that the chest (containing a magic item/potion) cannot be seen without a Perception check DC20 as it is hidden behind a thick veil of cobwebs - bard fails perception check - cannot see chest. So, then casts detect magic and 'must then see the magic auras emanating from the chest that he cannot see' and proceeds to find it and empty it, rather than any other members of the party searching and actually finding the chest via a successful roll.There is no rule that says a hidden item is easy to spot with Detect Magic. If a magic item is in a chest and hidden under a bunch of cobwebs. It is not obvious even with the dim glow of magic from within. You could simply give a circumstance bonus on perception rolls when finding hidden items with detect magic. If it is a DC 20 to spot normally make it a DC 15 or DC 10 to spot it after a detect magic goes up. If you think that weakens the spell too much, then tell them they detect magic aura without a search, but cannot pinpoint it, then allow the search at a DC 10 or DC 15.
At the time, I think I actually did do that. He didn't spot the chest (or cabinet i think it was) with his perception but did the detect magic and I tried to explain that he could sense the magic in the area but couldn't pinpoint it until he 'found' the cabinet benath the dense cobwebs - at which point he got the arse and had a bit of a strop - so I relented to my chagrin.
I'm going to be a bit more inventive from now as I had been playing my AP almost straight from the book at that point but have now started to be much more free-form in how I as GM interpret how things play out - especially since I want my Golarion to be different the world they expect it to be (within the rules of course). With them having been avid Roleplayers for many years and myself up until recently a tourist as it were, it's going to be fun to mess with their perception of how an adventure pans out.
In my games, I ruled that Detect Magic would make magic Items glow (very faintly for lesser items like a +1 dagger, or very brightly for major items like a +5 ring of protection). So if the item is in a chest (and out of view), the magic item would remain unknown to the caster).
Then for the detecting magical auras part... I ruled that you can detect it in a wand of magic missiles when you have it in your hand and wave it around (to help you determine what it does). But give off no aura by itself as it is inactive when left alone. Same goes for most magical items.
The only items that actually give off a magical aura would be either an item that actually functions by itself when left alone, or some major magic item (a +5 Holy Sword) or artifact.
Again this is a house rule and it has eliminated the "Detect-Magic-At-Every-Ten-Feet" use that some players have regretabbly adopted. My players will use a Detect Magic either in combat to identify an item used by a foe, or at the end of a battle, after they have done searching the enemy's treasure.
Ultradan
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There is also the "Magical areas, multiple types of magic, or strong local magical emanations may distort or conceal weaker auras." part of the spell's description.
When my character, who is quite the "I Detect Magic" Sorcerer, entered the necropolis which was saturated in the still very strong auras of long-elapsed awesome magic effects, she felt like becoming near blind. In fact, I feel that the at-will nature of such cantrips really gives a magical/otherworldly flavor to casters.
Concerning the OP's example, by RAW, the spell gives you the location of the aura. But nothing says that this location is exact within the millimeter. It can be just a 5' square. It will help you in finding the item but will not make it an auto-find.
Also, I expect anyone with some means to place their magic items in chests lined with lead.
When our gaming group was going through the Legacy of Fire Campaign, we overused the detect magic cantrip way too much, to the point I thought it was over powered. So, when it became my turn to DM, I made the Cantrip only have a 5' range and made a 1st level variation that was identical to the original spell. This was the area effect is back to a limited number of uses per day, but if they wanted to spent the time, they could, 5' at a time.
Keep in mind that identify is effectively a shorter detect magic with a spellcraft bonus, now.
Keep in mind that it takes several rounds of concentration to localize and get specific details about the magic in an area. If his fellow party members are in the area he's scanning (a 60 ft. cone) and carry magic items or have spells active, they may "block the signal", causing him to detect a "false positive". He will need to "take point", asking his fellow party members to stand clear while he concentrates.
Bad things happen to squishy mage-types who take point too often...
I cast detect magic on this thread.(Holds up lead sheet)
Also works on other detects, such as detect evil. So if a hell knight walked around in lead full plate you won't know he's evil...of course you can check the corpse after he dies of lead poisoning.
I cast detect magic on this thread.(Holds up lead sheet)You forgot:
"Stop oppressing my culture you ethnocentric. . ."
That's exactly what I was thinking of.
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There was a 1st edition AD&D adventure with a room where there had once been a magical "accident". Anything that stayed in the room for more than 24 hours detected as magical. And maintained the aura for about a week after it was removed.
As I recall, the party made off with a lot of "magical" doodads: a wagon wheel, a single oar, a couple of cloaks, a left shoe, a chamber pot, a longbow missing the string, a broom, a scarecrow, a barrel, a fireplace mantle....
Lots of fun with that. :)
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Taffer
Wear a lead helmet, like Magneto, and you're immune to detect thoughts! Bwahahahahahahaha!
Wear a lead helmet for any length of time and there won't be much to detect. LOL
There was a 1st edition AD&D adventure with a room where there had once been a magical "accident". Anything that stayed in the room for more than 24 hours detected as magical. And maintained the aura for about a week after it was removed.
As I recall, the party made off with a lot of "magical" doodads: a wagon wheel, a single oar, a couple of cloaks, a left shoe, a chamber pot, a longbow missing the string, a broom, a scarecrow, a barrel, a fireplace mantle....
Lots of fun with that. :)
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Taffer