We use the one the game is based on. You have to hit it on the nose or be better. We use it because that's the way the game is designed, thus balanced, thus meant to work. Plus, it's just how we've always played.
Heck, even in baseball tie goes to the runner (that's offense, not defense). I'm pretty sure that makes it the American thing to do :p
Also, it's not a flat 5% variance either way. There are waaayyyyyyyyy more variables involved. If all you were doing was rolling a d20 with no other modifiers, then it might be 5%. However, with all sorts of static and variable additions to the end result AND target number, it is a vastly different equation and changes from situation to situation.
Edit: However I'm not the greatest at maths, so that could just be only at the upper and lower ends of the spectrum. I'm not really sure. I just know that +2 to attack is not a flat 10% bonus to success.
Many games have it, Pathfinder doesn't.
"Defender Always Wins" is a ruling that states the attacker must EXCEED the defenders DC, be it AC or opposed checks. Pathfinder sets forth that all rolls must MATCH the difficulty.
Taking this to a statistics perspective, DAW gives a 5% sway to the defender. Whereas, matching gives a 5% sway to the attacker.
Which paradigm do you use and why?
IIRC, "meet or beat" has been SOP for DnD ever since 3.0.
Roller wins. Whoever is actively rolling is the one that wins.
IIRC, "meet or beat" has been SOP for DnD ever since 3.0.
Of course everyone is, as always, free to play however is most fun for them. That being said, in terms of Rules as Written...THAC0 was the same way in older editions of AD&D. Come to think of it, every game I can think of runs on the meet or beat paradigm, whether it's a success dice pool mechanic, or static difficulty target, the "tie goes to the runner." Can anyone think of a game where the RaW is worded in a way that works like the OP suggests? I'm not trying to undercut or snarkify...I'm just at a loss for an example.
IIRC, "meet or beat" has been SOP for DnD ever since 3.0.Many games have it, Pathfinder doesn't.
"Defender Always Wins" is a ruling that states the attacker must EXCEED the defenders DC, be it AC or opposed checks. Pathfinder sets forth that all rolls must MATCH the difficulty.
Taking this to a statistics perspective, DAW gives a 5% sway to the defender. Whereas, matching gives a 5% sway to the attacker.
Which paradigm do you use and why?
Heck, even in previous editions (meet or beat AC, magic resistance %, etc).
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
You are not making opposed rolls, you are setting a target number. If you set a target number of, say, 15... it doesn't make sense that a result of 15 fails. 15 *IS* the target. If you hit the target number, you succeed. Doing it any other way seems counter-intuitive.
Now, if you use one of the variant rules where defenders ROLL their AC (instead of getting a flat 10), it makes more sense.
My first DnD group played where the defender won on a tie. It wasn't until later I discovered it was otherwise.
Roller wins. Whoever is actively rolling is the one that wins.I bring to question opposed checks, let's say Bluff and Sense Motive. In this case, either can initiate the check. This is especially in my games where I don't call for a roll until the RP is done or a player requests one.
Another good example would be a Guard actively perceiving a town square. A pick pocket enters the square and rolls a SoH. Who wins on a tie?
By RAW the DC of the sense motive and perception check are both set by the roll of the bluff or stealth check. Especially since there is no sense motive check or perception check without the bluff or stealth checks.
As such the last person that rolls (i.e. the one that rolls the sense motive or perception check) are making the active roll at the time.
OPPOSED checks must be beat, not met; this issue has been raised on here before. Meeting a stealth roll with your perception check does not succeed, regardless of who initiates the roll. Static numbers like ACs, save DCs, etc are "meet-or-beat" rolls.
To go one step further, there used to be a rule in 2nd ed (I think?), perhaps in conjunction with psionics, that said if you rolled exactly what you needed (not higher nor lower) then it was a "power score" and you got some extra umph out of the ability. Even today, some of my players (if they know the DC or AC of their target number) will say "Power Score!" if they roll the target number. It makes me groan every time.
Taking this to a statistics perspective, DAW gives a 5% sway to the defender. Whereas, matching gives a 5% sway to the attacker.
Neither of these is really true.
The reality is that if Pathfinder used the "defender wins ties" paradigm, target numbers would just end up being 1 lower to compensate. There would be no "sway" either way. The target numbers (and math behind them) are set up to allow certain levels of success.
Can anyone think of a game where the RaW is worded in a way that works like the OP suggests? I'm not trying to undercut or snarkify...I'm just at a loss for an example.
Most if not all of White Wolf's games use the paradigm that the OP mentioned.
PS. new world of darkness, exalted and scion most definetely use that.
Can anyone think of a game where the RaW is worded in a way that works like the OP suggests? I'm not trying to undercut or snarkify...I'm just at a loss for an example.
Most if not all of White Wolf's games use the paradigm that the OP mentioned.
PS. new world of darkness, exalted and scion most definetely use that.
NWoD uses 8 or higher as its success mark -- please not that means rolling above a 7 -- not above an 8.
@Rezdave
I am not really familiar with oWoD.
NWoD uses 8 or higher as its success mark -- please not that means rolling above a 7 -- not above an 8.Can anyone think of a game where the RaW is worded in a way that works like the OP suggests? I'm not trying to undercut or snarkify...I'm just at a loss for an example.
Most if not all of White Wolf's games use the paradigm that the OP mentioned.
PS. new world of darkness, exalted and scion most definetely use that.
Yes that true (although after playing exalted for almost a year made me thinking that 7 is the success mark), but that's not what i meant. I was talking about contesting rolls, either supernatural (dominate) or natural (chase), in contested rolls (both characters are rolling) the tie goes to the defender.
Yes that true (although after playing exalted for almost a year made me thinking that 7 is the success mark), but that's not what i meant. I was talking about contesting rolls, either supernatural (dominate) or natural (chase), in contested rolls (both characters are rolling) the tie goes to the defender.
Contested rolls are actually rather rare in NWoD -- usually it is who hits a set number of successes first -- or who racks up more successes over a period of time.
As such you almost never roll against another person -- instead you race to a finish line.