Hi all. I'm hoping to get some advice on a few dilemmas I have regarding a monk character I'm building - this is my first attempt at the class, so I don't have any practical experience at the moment. I don't know what the rest of the party will be like at the moment, so that aspect won't really play into the discussion.
Question 1: I'm very interested in the monk of the sacred mountain archetype. For the most part, I like the very pragmatic, front-line oriented bonuses that it offers. My only hesitancy regarding the class is the loss of evasion and its improved version, which obviously is pretty huge. Do you think giving up this ability is worth the bonuses you get? FYI, I'm perfectly happy to give up slow fall, high jump, and tongue of the sun and moon.
Question 2: I've boiled down my choices of race to either aasimar or human. The extra feat and skill point and flexible ability bonus (to strength) of the latter are great, whereas the stat boost to wisdom (I know charisma isn't ideal) and the energy resistance of the former are nice, although I'm unsure of how useful the energy resistance would turn out to be (my guess: useful in the short-term, less so in the long run). Any thoughts?
Question 3: What are peoples' thoughts on the monk of the four winds archetype? I think I would prefer the extra, scaling damage of elemental fist to stunning fist (which, when combined with the extra damage potential of drunken master, which I plan to take, could make for some nice knock out blow potential), but I'm open to changing my mind on that. I would much prefer abundant step to slow time, but it's a late-coming ability (I'm uncertain as to what level the character would get played up to), so I'm not overly concerned about the loss, unless it's just that good.
Think that covers it. Thoughts would be more than welcome.
1: Depends on who your enemies are. Not a lot of help, I know, but against blasting casters evasions helps a lot more than AC and being immovable, against a melee opponent on the other hand... I think the archetype is pretty well balanced compared to the "original".
2: Just core races in my games, but why not have a monk with some charisma for a change? If you want to go "front line battlemonk" the +2 into strength are better, and I share your opinion about the resistance 5, otoh you get 2 times +2 without a -2 as an aasimar.
3: Abundant step IS good, but I cannot comment on the levels you are planning to reach. Stunning fist is a nice resource, but you have to remember to target those not too sturdy looking ("bad fort save" in metagaming) opponents. To me, 1d6 energy damage a few times a day look rather underwhelming, though you are quite felxible in the use of different types.
Dwarves actually make great Monks. Boost to two important stats and a penalty to a dump stat. Darkvision, and more a bonus on saves. They also get a bonus vs. Trip and Bullrush, but with for a Sacred Mountain that is not important.
I am not really impressed with the Sacred Mountain archetype. The Four Winds looks to be a lot better.
If you do go with an Assimir you can dump the CHA to 7 but end up with a 9 so you end up netting 4 points.
Evasion is something I would not give up for a Monk. Also giving up Diamond Soul is not something I would do. Both of these abilities make the Monk tough vs. a spell caster, especially an arcane caster.
Thanks for the quick responses.
Nixda, I agree, the two options seem really balanced, and largely dependent on who you happen to be facing at a given time. My one that was that, with the monk's ability to quickly enter the thick of battle, he'd be somewhat less vulnerable to AoE spells. Regarding the elemental fist ability, I'm not sure if you noticed it or not, but the damage actually scales with a monk of the four winds (2d6 at level 5, 3d6 at level 10, etc). And yes, I've definitely thought about abandoning the more min/max route, playing with a higher charisma, and embracing the role of an aasimar as a charismatic, divine force for good. I've even thought about taking a level of sorcerer if I went that route, so I could take the arcane strike feat and really play up the elemental strike side of monk of the four winds. Obviously not mechanically sound, but I think it would make for a very interesting character...
Good point on diamond soul, M.S. - to be honest, I hadn't thought about it too much.
I'm currently running a half-elf/Shoanti Sacred Mountain monk. Reading on HalfElf in the APG I liked the idea that they combined the parents fighting styles, which seemed a good way to get a 'local' monk rather than an import for our campaign.
I chose sacred mountain for the contrast to highly evasive monks I'd played in 3.5, since its benefits help shore up the common complaints of being too lightly armored to stand and take the full attacks you're wanting to.
Only lvl 3 at present, but getting +1 natural armor and toughness in place of evasion has been much more useful than evasion would have been in the same combats.
The elemental resistances of Aasimar could synergize well with your party casters, since your reflex save isn't any worse, you're just taking half damage. If they're tossing area spells you're resistant to, then it's helping make up for losing evasion.
One big benefit of Sacred Mountain is that you don't lose your bonus movement. You can deploy yourself quickly still, and the only thing I lament about it is losing slowfall for some of the wallwalking feats they included.
Abundant step is the reason that I didn't take Four Winds. Trading dim door for ki/2 uses for one triple-standard action round just hindered my maneuverability too much. Intending to take full attacks as well diminishes the usefulness of the three standards.
JB - does losing slow fall mean you can't take spider step or cloud step? I wasn't sure, since there's nothing in those feats that specifically states you require slow fall for them (although I do see that it could be implicit since it references one's slow fall distance; I had thought that maybe you could apply your hypothetical slow fall distance to those feats, even if you don't actually have it).
Some good points.
Qik, I really missed out on the scaling, that comes from just reading the feat description. Thanks.
And the good ref + aasimar's energy restistance could in some cases really be a substitute for evasion. But in most campaigns evasion gets its chance to shine way later than the sacred mountain's +AC and toughness.
And personally I'm all for going for style over power :)
And personally I'm all for going for style over power :)
Hat tip. ;)
The way it is written seems like Spider Step and Cloud Step do require slow fall. Technically you could probably take them but would have a max move of 0.
JB - does losing slow fall mean you can't take spider step or cloud step? I wasn't sure, since there's nothing in those feats that specifically states you require slow fall for them (although I do see that it could be implicit since it references one's slow fall distance; I had thought that maybe you could apply your hypothetical slow fall distance to those feats, even if you don't actually have it).
It references being able to use half your slow fall distance as your alternate movement iirc, no books handy here ;) Since you don't have slow fall, then half of nothing is nothing.
Nixda, as I said, I've already gone the evasive monk route before. Sacred Mountain fit for how I wanted to play, and thematically as a totem for being raised among the Shoanti. That's the same reason I avoided taking Four Winds + Sacred Mountain, as I felt Stunning Fist matched the description of the Shoanti brawling better than Elemental Fist did.
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And yes, I've definitely thought about abandoning the more min/max route, playing with a higher charisma, and embracing the role of an aasimar as a charismatic, divine force for good. I've even thought about taking a level of sorcerer if I went that route, so I could take the arcane strike feat and really play up the elemental strike side of monk of the four winds. Obviously not mechanically sound, but I think it would make for a very interesting character...
Now you have made me want to make an aasimar monk X/paladin 2 using Sacred Mountain.
Depending on your taste, that build can dip Oracle of Lore or Nature to CHA to AC.