I'm new to the whole cleric class and I would like your help building a Dhampir cleric at level 1 that focuses on melee.
I have a 20 pt build, and the race gives you a +2 Dex, +2 Cha and -2 Con. They also get healed by negative energy. Since I need to be an ally of the party, I was going to go with a neutral alignment. Our party is going to consist of 4-5 players, so I need to take that into account for Channeling Energy. As of now there isn't any other healers.
I was also thinking about going the Holy Vindicator route as my prestige at 8th level.
Until then, here is what I was thinking:
Diety: Gorum
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Attributes:
11 STR
14 DEX
10 CON
10 INT
14 WIS
18 CHA
Feat(s): Selective Channeling
Traits:
Rich Parents (900gp)
Heirloom Weapon (greatsword)
Weapons: Greatsword
Armor: Breastplate
Domains:
Strength
War
Domain Spell:
Magic Weapon (+1)
Spells:
Create Water
Resistance
Light
Cure Light Wounds
Shield of Faith
What does everyone think? Can I choose negative for Channel Energy, and positive for all my cure light wounds? I have to think about how I'm going to heal myself, but also how to heal the party.
And what about using a shield when moving forward since the Holy Vindicator gets Vindicator's Shield? Maybe drop a two handed weapon and go for a sword/shield combo, or keep it and get a Buckler when I'm 8th level and take a -1 to hit.
Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated!
Take Ferocity instead of Strength and Tactics instead of War.
You now have a smite attack and initiative improvement for the group.
You can't choose the flavor of channeling you do every fight that's a choice you make when you make the character.
So my question becomes when it comes ot choice of feats is what the group consists of?
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Your stats are awful for a battle cleric. Something more like this:
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 11
Int 10
Wis 14
Chr 14
Will serve you much better. Use your 4th level ability point on Con, then focus on Str. Use Magic Items to get the Wisdom for full spellcasting, and you're good to go.
And the party needs more healing than you do on your own, so I'd go with Channeling Positive Energy, but preparing an Inflict Light Wounds or two for yourself.
Once you've got the cash as a party, make the other PCs buy you a Wand of Inflict Light Wounds for you (you're their healer, they'll be happy to), and you don't even need to prepare that as much.
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I personally hate "rich Parents" as a trait. I NEVER have a PC not take it in my game. Its too powerful.
Really? I've never had a player who DID take it (under several GMs). They all realize that it'll equalize within a few sessions anyway. I did have a player use heirloom weapon for a masterwork falchion that they proceeded to keep for the entire campaign. They even named the damn thing before they named their character.
Your stats are awful for a battle cleric. Something more like this:
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 11
Int 10
Wis 14
Chr 14Will serve you much better. Use your 4th level ability point on Con, then focus on Str. Use Magic Items to get the Wisdom for full spellcasting, and you're good to go.
And the party needs more healing than you do on your own, so I'd go with Channeling Positive Energy, but preparing an Inflict Light Wounds or two for yourself.
Once you've got the cash as a party, make the other PCs buy you a Wand of Inflict Light Wounds for you (you're their healer, they'll be happy to), and you don't even need to prepare that as much.
I went with the 18 Charisma so I can avoid my allies from taking damage when I Channel Energy to heal myself, and also do damage to my enemies. It seems very beneficial to do so, especially at higher levels when I'm doing multiple D6's to all living enemies within a 30' radius.
How about, instead of Selective Channeling, you take Channel Smite? It's not the "I hurt everyone withing 30ft" type of Channel, but it keeps you from having to worry about hitting your friends.
What do you think about my previous post, about it being beneficial to be able to do damage to multiple living enemies?
And what about using a shield when moving forward since the Holy Vindicator gets Vindicator's Shield? Maybe drop a two handed weapon and go for a sword/shield combo, or keep it and get a Buckler when I'm 8th level and take a -1 to hit. Any thoughts on this?
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I went with the 18 Charisma so I can avoid my allies from taking damage when I Channel Energy to heal myself, and also do damage to my enemies. It seems very beneficial to do so, especially at higher levels when I'm doing multiple D6's to all living enemies within a 30' radius.
The damage isn't notably significant by higher levels. Even 10d6 is only 35 damage, which is chump change by 19th level when you get it and then there's the save for half, which will get made fairly frequently unless you keep focusing entirely on Charisma...which hurts all your other capabilities. Even looking at lower levels, by 7th it's only 4d6 (14 damage on average), while your opponents' average HP is between about 55 and 130. Yeah. And the Wizard can do nearly double that with a good Fireball.
Channel-based Clerics just aren't viable mechanically. It's a great supplemental ability, but not one you should ever base your entire character around. As a healing ability it's particularly good, since it can apply to the whole party...but that doesn't help the negative energy version.
It's also an utterly out-of-theme focus for a Cleric of Gorum (who is, after all, the god of combat, not sucking your foe's life out with magic), and not what most people mean when they refer to a battle Cleric (which usually means a Cleric who can also fight mundanely). And it damages your ability as a Healer, which you mentioned being important, since you're going to be the only one.
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1. Your attributes are not set up for any kind of battle cleric.
2. There even worse for a casting cleric.
3. your set up for being a channel only cleric with melee and spells secondary. This is very powerfull the first few levels. After level 6 you fall behind on the power curve.
4. Rich Parents is a wast of a trait. 900GP is somthing you will see befor level 2 and is usless after level 1. Heirloom Weaon is a good one to have. If your plan on taking craft arms and armor.
5. Destruction Domain is one of the best domains for battle cleric. followed by Strength/Ferocity Subdomain.
Channel Energy is usless for damage past level 6 or so. Ask any wizard or sorcerer how much there fire balls hit for. Did some testing with a battle cleric and oracle of battle. battle cleric can do around 75 points of damage a round with two buffs at level 10. This is much higher then the 17 avrage damage with a channel energy.
Battle Cleric
Dhampir 20Point buy
Str 17
Dex 12
Con 10
Int 8
Wis 14
Cha 14
Thanks for all of you suggestions!
I'm going to go with these stats:
17 STR
12 DEX
10 CON
08 INT
14 WIS
14 CHA
Traits:
Heirloom Weapon (greatsword)
Armor
Domains:
Destruction
Ferocity
Since I only have a 14 CHA, I decided against Selective Channel. I would heal the party with Channel Energy when we're not in combat, and use my Cure wounds for myself with negative energy. What do you suggest for feats as I level? Should I go the Vital Strike route, then Greater, and so on?
I'll probably get a Buckler so when I cast spells I can add that to my AC. Plus I'll get Vindicators Shield at 8th level.
Any other suggestions? :)
Considering your hefty smiting focus I'd probably go the vital strike route tbh.
and use my Cure wounds for myself with negative energy.
You mean Inflict, Dhampir, remember? :)
You mean Inflict, Dhampir, remember? :)and use my Cure wounds for myself with negative energy.
Wait... So if I play Neutral I can't choose negative energy to change my Cure to Cause Light Wounds, and positive for Channel Energy?
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A cleric who is neither good nor evil and whose deity
is neither good nor evil can convert spells to either cure
spells or inflict spells (player’s choice). Once the player
makes this choice, it cannot be reversed. This choice
also determines whether the cleric channels positive or
negative energy (see Channel Energy).
A cleric who is neither good nor evil and whose deity
is neither good nor evil can convert spells to either cure
spells or inflict spells (player’s choice). Once the player
makes this choice, it cannot be reversed. This choice
also determines whether the cleric channels positive or
negative energy (see Channel Energy).
Well then it sounds like I have to choose to either heal the party or myself...
Well then it sounds like I have to choose to either heal the party or myself...A cleric who is neither good nor evil and whose deity
is neither good nor evil can convert spells to either cure
spells or inflict spells (player’s choice). Once the player
makes this choice, it cannot be reversed. This choice
also determines whether the cleric channels positive or
negative energy (see Channel Energy).
OR!
You can give in to darkness....embrace Urgathoa...and heal everyone...yesssss.
I know of a way you can do this. But first you must cast aside your petty morals.
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Well then it sounds like I have to choose to either heal the party or myself...
Okay, the way this works is as follows:
A Cleric who can Channel to heal can spontaneously cast Cure spells...which means you'll actually have to prepare your Inflict Spells, not just trade other spells out for them.
So, if you channel positive energy, your prepared spell list will look something like this:
1st: Bless, Inflict Light Wounds, Magic Weapon*,
0th: Stabilize, Light, Create Water,
*Domain spell
And you can spontaneously trade out either Bless or Inflict Light Wounds for Cure Light Wounds.
See how that works?
Well then it sounds like I have to choose to either heal the party or myself...Okay, the way this works is as follows:
A Cleric who can Channel to heal can spontaneously cast Cure spells...which means you'll actually have to prepare your Inflict Spells, not just trade other spells out for them.
So, if you channel positive energy, your prepared spell list will look something like this:
1st: Bless, Inflict Light Wounds, Magic Weapon*,
0th: Stabilize, Light, Create Water,
*Domain spellAnd you can spontaneously trade out either Bless or Inflict Light Wounds for Cure Light Wounds.
See how that works?
I understand. So if I choose Inflict Light wounds as my spell I can swap that out for a cure using Channel energy if I need to. Otherwise I can use that for myself, right?
That's not the way it's normally phrased, but yes, that's how it works.
I understand. So if I choose Inflict Light wounds as my spell I can swap that out for a cure using Channel energy if I need to. Otherwise I can use that for myself, right?
Thanks!
Would Selective Channel even be beneficial when I have a 14 Charisma?
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Would Selective Channel even be beneficial when I have a 14 Charisma?
Depends on the size of your party, and how many are long range characters. You would only be removing 2 party members from a large area, so I don't know if you're willing to cope with that.
Also, I just wanted to make sure you understood this aspect, as I was confused by the dialogue.
At character creation, you can either choose to:
A) Spontaneously cast Cure spells (sacrifice any prepared spell for a Cure spell) and you Channel Positive Energy.
or
B) Spontaneously cast Inflict spells (sacrifice any prepared spell for an Inflict spell) and you Channel Negative Energy.
You don't choose between casting "Cure or Inflict" spells and between Channeling "Positive or Negative" energy. You either do negative energy or positive energy. No mixing and matching.
Also, you don't use "Channel Energy" to fuel your spell spontaneity. It's just a spell substitution. Channel Energy exists as a separate pool to draw from.
*Edit: On a more important note, keep in mind that you lose your shield bonus when you attack with the appropriate hand. Even with Shield Bash, the feat only applies to attacking with a shield, which means that your Buckler/Greatsword style won't really do you much good if you're attacking, since you aren't actually attacking with the shield. A Cleric of Iomedae with a Longsword/Shield combo may work better for the Sword/Board style you seem to want.
Would Selective Channel even be beneficial when I have a 14 Charisma?Depends on the size of your party, and how many are long range characters. You would only be removing 2 party members from a large area, so I don't know if you're willing to cope with that.
Also, I just wanted to make sure you understood this aspect, as I was confused by the dialogue.
At character creation, you can either choose to:
A) Spontaneously cast Cure spells (sacrifice any prepared spell for a Cure spell) and you Channel Positive Energy.
or
B) Spontaneously cast Inflict spells (sacrifice any prepared spell for an Inflict spell) and you Channel Negative Energy.
You don't choose between casting "Cure or Inflict" spells and between Channeling "Positive or Negative" energy. You either do negative energy or positive energy. No mixing and matching.
Also, you don't use "Channel Energy" to fuel your spell spontaneity. It's just a spell substitution. Channel Energy exists as a separate pool to draw from.
*Edit: On a more important note, keep in mind that you lose your shield bonus when you attack with the appropriate hand. Even with Shield Bash, the feat only applies to attacking with a shield, which means that your Buckler/Greatsword style won't really do you much good if you're attacking, since you aren't actually attacking with the shield. A Cleric of Iomedae with a Longsword/Shield combo may work better for the Sword/Board style you seem to want.
Well we've got a total of 4-5 players and I'm going to be the only healer. So you're right, if I do a mass heal I can only choose 2 enemies to negate. I'm not sure if it's worth spending a feat on it.
As far as I understood; I can select positive energy, channel positive channel energy, and prepare Inflict Light Wounds to heal myself.
You make a good point; so if I attack with the great sword then I lose the Vindicators Shield bonus. But if I use a long sword I'll still get the shield bonus, including the Vindicators bonus until I'm hit.
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Well we've got a total of 4-5 players and I'm going to be the only healer. So you're right, if I do a mass heal I can only choose 2 enemies to negate. I'm not sure if it's worth spending a feat on it.
As far as I understood; I can select positive energy, channel positive channel energy, and prepare Inflict Light Wounds to heal myself.
You make a good point; so if I attack with the great sword then I lose the Vindicators Shield bonus. But if I use a long sword I'll still get the shield bonus, including...
You are correct on all counts. A couple of things to keep in mind:
Going the shield route will put you as more of a "tank/healer." While you'll put out decent damage, it won't be anywhere near what you would do with a two-hander.
That said, I do recommend going the sword/shield route for the Vindicator's Shield bonus. Channel Positive Energy isn't really that useful in combat. I have it on a Goblin Paladin I'm playing atm (Hospitaler variant for separate channeling/lay on hands) and I only use Channel Positive Energy outside of battle for getting the group back on its feet.
If you are still interested in channeling for damage, remember that you deal damage to undead with positive channeling, and you can always choose to exclude yourself from the burst when doing so. In addition, I recommend the Alignment Channel (Evil) feat if you're interested in doing damage via Channeling or channeling smiting. Evil Outsiders come up often enough in most games that a Channeled Smite w/Vital Strike could be a pretty viable tactic when not full-attacking. Combine with awesome buff spells like Righteous Might and we'd be looking at a pretty hefty blow around level 10.
Let's see...
21 Strength (25 with Righteous Might) means +7 damage
2d6 from your Large Longsword
2d6 from Vital Strike
5d6 from Channeled Smite
and if you pick up a Grayflame Longsword (and you should) and extra +1 and +1d6 holy damage (irresistable). Just remember not to neglect Charisma for Strength too much.
Actually, as for your Stat array, I recommend dropping Strength down to 16 (even numbers work just fine), which will allow you to bump Charisma up to 16. It's not much, but an extra use of Channeling will be nice, especially with Vindicator bonuses.
You are correct on all counts. A couple of things to keep in mind:
Going the shield route will put you as more of a "tank/healer." While you'll put out decent damage, it won't be anywhere near what you would do with a two-hander.
That said, I do recommend going the sword/shield route for the Vindicator's Shield bonus. Channel Positive Energy isn't really that useful in combat. I have it on a Goblin Paladin I'm playing atm (Hospitaler variant for separate channeling/lay on hands) and I only use Channel Positive Energy outside of battle for getting the group back on its feet.
If you are still interested in channeling for damage, remember that you deal damage to undead with positive channeling, and you can always choose to exclude yourself from the burst when doing so. In addition, I recommend the Alignment Channel (Evil) feat if you're interested in doing damage via Channeling or channeling smiting. Evil Outsiders come up often enough in most games that a Channeled Smite w/Vital Strike could be a pretty viable tactic when not full-attacking. Combine with awesome buff spells like Righteous Might and we'd be looking at a pretty hefty blow around level 10.
Let's see...
21 Strength (25 with Righteous Might) means +7 damage
2d6 from your Large Longsword
2d6 from Vital Strike
5d6 from Channeled Smiteand if you pick up a Grayflame Longsword (and you should) and extra +1 and +1d6 holy damage (irresistable). Just remember not to neglect Charisma for Strength...
Thanks for the tips!
We're playing within the Rise of the Ruin Lords setting, so I'm not sure what will be more beneficial as far as using Channel Energy. I was thinking about using channeling only for healing the party and smiting. So I guess it would depend on what kind of creatures we'll mainly encounter in that module. Have you played that before?
Since I'll probably do the sword/shield combo; I was going to follow Ragathiel and choose Destruction and Good for my domains. This will also allow me to use a Bastard Sword one-handed.
Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated!
Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but you have much better domain choices then strength and war. If you have access to APG subdomains, I would highly recommend Demon (Chaos) combined with either Heroism (Glory) or Destruction. Destruction has another nice level 1 ability that works in conjunction with the one from demon, and Heroism give you aura of heroism and a spell list that includes some of the best paladin buffs.
I played the first book of Rise of the Rune Lords... no spoilers, but yeah, you're gonna have lots of fun with this character.
So would you recommend channel positive or negative?