ok maybe not the last one but it got your attention
soo been reading the stuff on guns and the whole ignoreing armor within so many feet. soo heres my idea how to work them.
Have armor hardness apply as DR for bullets instead of adding to ac. only problem i see here is fullplate (and reinforced steel armoers) will kill gun damage. still it should fit if you think about it steel plates would slow down the little lead ball as its trying to shred your soft humany skin. leather would do next to nothing but still shave off a point or 2.
hmm alternativly you could have the AC bonus work as DR aginst guns instead then dragons nat armor would be a b*#!& to penetrate. then give the gun figther the feats to help (penetrating shot or something) or maybe Armor peirceing ammo cut hardness in half or reduce it by a certain amount. so it would be like thouch attack then the heavy armor softens the blow like how bullet proof vests work. seems realistic at least. you could also add an ability to hit regular AC and call it something like "shoot at the squishy part". for when you aim at the dragons eye or soft underbelly where that one scale is missing.
alternativly you could bump up weapon damage for guns so theyd be able to peirce armor better course that means unarmored folks gonna get tore up so better hope that ac is up there^^
Forum monster ate my post. This is the annoyed second draft.
ok maybe not the last one but it got your attention
soo been reading the stuff on guns and the whole ignoreing armor within so many feet. soo heres my idea how to work them.
Have armor hardness apply as DR for bullets instead of adding to ac. only problem i see here is fullplate (and reinforced steel armoers) will kill gun damage. still it should fit if you think about it steel plates would slow down the little lead ball as its trying to shred your soft humany skin. leather would do next to nothing but still shave off a point or 2.
Using that reasoning, Armor is DR against essentially all attacks. The whole point with giving guns the touch attack was to make them suck less than crossbows.
I am going to assume that you mean give the Armor's AC bonus as DR against firearms. If you indeed mean its hardness, then fullplate would be a DR 10 armor, as it is steel.
hmm alternativly you could have the AC bonus work as DR aginst guns instead then dragons nat armor would be a b#!!+ to penetrate. then give the gun figther the feats to help (penetrating shot or something) or maybe Armor peirceing ammo cut hardness in half or reduce it by a certain amount. so it would be like thouch attack then the heavy armor softens the blow like how bullet proof vests work. seems realistic at least. you could also add an ability to hit regular AC and call it something like "shoot at the squishy part". for when you aim at the dragons eye or soft underbelly where that one scale is missing.
Well, that dragon natural armor number goes up a little stronger than the gunslinger's damage. Sure the gunslinger has some tricks, but at a certain point dragons will just be immune to the gunslinger as they will be unable to deal any kind of real damage. Think instead "Does a bow using fighter have this problem?"
Making the gunslinger take a feat to attack normal AC is actually pointing to crossbows being better than guns against high armor foes.
alternativly you could bump up weapon damage for guns so theyd be able to peirce armor better course that means unarmored folks gonna get tore up so better hope that ac is up there^^
Armor is a function of AC. Damage has nothing to do with armor directly in the rules. Higher damage, by how much?
well then why have the thouch AC at all? obviously if your going to shoot at someone your going to have to go through their fullplate
and let me expalin it a bit better
instead of having guns go for thouch attack (which as you suggested doesn't work since ac is armor and implying thouch means your just trying to hit the armor.) your trying to hit the perosn in it calling it a thouch attack implys its ignoreing armor of all types dragon plate etc. at least if it gives some type of DR its counting for something after all THICK plates did stop bullets you just couldn't really move that well in them. and thats why i was suggesting armor peiceing feats and ammo to help with the bigger armored drs or allow (assuming its gonna be a thouch attack) to choose to make a regular roll aginst ac to do it the old fashioned way if you want to have bullets be thouch.
oh and in your gun history i think your forgetting the LOUD BANG noice that makes people freak out and run there fore its easier to shoot to kill if its predator prey instead of predator predator.
i don't care if its historically accurate really.
just seems like a ray gun or disentegrator gun if its just trying to thouch you. i would just up the damage of the guns slightly old timer bullets where devestating when they hit what with the spinning decent size ball of lead going through you.
besides its called brainstorming i don't mind someone punching holes in my idea it kind of leaves room for improvement.
i hate when people complain about a mechanic they never playtested and then propose nerfs to it.
there is already precedence for weapons that target touch AC. only we forget that they are weapons.
spells are one of these weapons
alchemical items are another
various 3.5 abilities qualified too.
and some of these cost no resources, but others cost a bit of gold, or drained from a renewable resource.
yes but they call it thouch ac cause your just trying to thouch someone with it you just need an alchemical bomb to blow-up close enough to the target and if a lighting bolt hits you its gonna hurt no matter what armor you wearing. a gun is more comparable to a crossbow then a gernade (like alchemical bombs) or a lighting bolt. im not saying nerf it im just saying find a way for it to work i mean at some point guns replaced bows arrows and crossbows must be reasons for it. the armor thing is legit for most armor and some guns. but your also talking thouch ac for dragon scales and adamantine plate. you don't want the bullet just to thouch you want it to penetrate! i was just tinkering with other ways to represent this. SO try to be more consturcive then i hate this and i hate that i didn't say i wanted anything nerfed :P
i did more than just express dislike.
i offered words of precedence for such things. whether we accept it or not.
before you say the bullet ignores the dragons scales.
it only does so in the first range increment.
a maximum of 20-40 feet depending on weapon.
a gunslinger who is making touch attacks with his gun is also provoking attacks of oppurtunity from every monster who threatens him.
not just that, but just like arrows, bullets can be both deflected and wind walled. and any dragon can use wind wall. the pre written spell lists are not set in stone. they are merely examples.
a dragon can be over 100 feet above the gunslinger and still hit him with his breath weapon at no loss to accuracy. the gunslinger takes a major accuracy hit at this range. in between the cooldown, the dragon can drop fireballs and lightning bolts, or flyby grapple and swallow the gunslinger whole. draconic bile does a lot of damage. and guns aren't light weapons. meaning the poor gunslinger cannot use them. dragons are not meant to go toe to toe with a party of adventurers. they are meant to be played like Sun-Tzu, divide and conquer. and certain dragons may have breath weapons or spells that may cause all that powder to explode. which harms the party even worse.
dumbing down the effects of fire and downplaying monster tactics is basically coddling a gunslinger. a smart gunslinger will look for ways to fireproof his powder. any dragon can learn fireball too. and most of them do.
at first, i thought of making the game easier for the new generation, but key members of my saturday group tend to worry about the weaknesses of thier characters, because they know they will be exploited. and excuses aren't allowed. a variant of the L5R 20 questions are brought in, and your background is used for both good and ill. for example if you have a sickly younger sister whom is emotionally dependant on you, expect her, not immediately, but eventually, to mentally crack should you go too long without tucking her into bed. if you perform sufficient support to this npc, she may eventually grow to become a connection or even a free cohort.
hmm how about just ignore a certain amount of Armor per bullet like shave 5-10 off armored ac (to complicated i know its unique) im not completly aginst the thouch ac thing but it just seems like its not perfect
The following is a preview of the firearm rules that appear in both The Inner Sea World Guide and Ultimate Combat, including a slight revision to the Rapid Reload feat that takes into account the firearm rules. While the gunslinger utilizes these rules, the following are only included in the playtest so that you can play the gunslinger. The rules on this page are final and not open for the playtest.
For better or worse, it is what it is. The playtest is about the gunslinger, not the guns. The Inner Sea World Guide has been out for a month, the rules are legal for society play, barring a very unlikely errata, the firearms rules are set in stone.
wasn't aware it was set in stone already