Well, I'm losing my GM hat in a few weeks, so I decided to make my character ahead of time to save myself the headache. My group finally agreed to use the RAW Standard method for ability scores, and I have to say, I really drew the short end of the stick. Nonetheless, after badgering my group about keeping low scores, I decided to deal with it. No need for hypocrisy.
And so, I went a ahead and made a wizard. I'm not exactly sure of what kind of builds the rest of my party will have, but I know that they'll be a paladin, rogue, and maybe a barbarian. Seeing as I never rolled anything arcane before, I'd appreciate any advice and critiques on my build.
And no, "die and roll a new character" won't work this time around.
Elf conjurer 1
NG Medium humanoid (elf)
hp 11 (1d6+5); Init +4
AC 12, Touch 12, FF 10 (Dex +2)
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 17, Wis 8, Cha 7
BAB +0, CMB -1, CMD 11
Fort +1, Ref +2, Will +1
Traits:
Reactionary
Focused Mind
Class Features:
Arcane bond (raven)
Arcane school (conjuration)
Opposition schools (abjuration & enchantment)
Feats:
1 – Toughness
1b – Scribe Scroll
Spellbook:
0 – acid splash, detect magic, detect poison, read magic, dancing lights, flare, light, ray of frost, spark, ghost sound, bleed, disrupt undead, touch of fatigue, mage hand, mending, message, open/close, arcane mark, prestidigitation (DC 13)
1st (2/day) – color spray, grease, mage armor, unseen servant, enlarge person, feather fall (DC 14)
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I tend to go opposed illusion and necromancy, unless I want to build a "save or sucks" specialist (and if I want to do that I build a witch.) That's just me, though.
Though enchantment for illusion is fair. Color Spray is stupid good at low levels, so keeping that around is just fine. Abjuration has some nice things, though. Might want to think twice before opposing it. It's not a huge deal, just my two cents.
I've not played a wizard in PF, though I played quite a few in 3.5. I've got a witch and a sorcerer in PFS play at the moment, though, so some of my insights are still useful, I hope.
Your spell list seems solid. As I said, Color Spray is stupid awesome at your level. Good things will come of that. Get magic missile eventually (When you level, I'd say). It's less good at this level, but is among the best 1st level spells at scaling. If you end up deciding that I'm right about Abjuration, grab shield. If not, False Life is a solid choice.
Your stat allocation seems solid. Toughness is not a terrible choice for a first level wizard, and raven is among my favorite familiars.
It gets all your knowledge ranks, so it can back you up if you fail identification checks. It also can actually warn you of danger specifically, with verbal details.
Honestly, it's a solid build, and my only suggestion is to make sure you feel that Abjuration is definitely what you want to give up.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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I'm not a big fan of Toughness. You have a Con bonus, and it looks like your favored class bonus is going into hp as well. But then again, I played wizards back when you rolled a d4 for first level and they were called magic-users. If you think you can reliably stay out of melee, you shouldn't need extra hp as much, especially at low levels.
I'd recommend Spell Focus (conjuration), as it goes with your specialization and is the prereq for Augment Summoning if you go that route.
Are you banning abjuration for rp reasons? There are a lot of "keep you alive" spells in there. Banning abjuration also makes it hard for you to dispel things. I'd recommend necromancy instead; you lose out on false life, but you could get an item that does that for you.
Again, these are just my recommendations. Obviously the important thing is for you to envision yourself having fun with the character.
As an elf, you can use a longbow, so you might pick one up for levels 1-2 as a backup.
As an elf, you can use a longbow, so you might pick one up for levels 1-2 as a backup.
With a strenght of 8 I'd say he's better off with a light crossbow.
In any case, I second the above posters. You are probably better off dropping necromancy and taking abjuration, unless you have a particular reason to keep necromancy. (The higher level necromancy spells, while extremely powerful, are also often quite situational, and you can generally afford memorizing them for 2x spell slots).
-good stuff-
Good call on the abjuration school, it appears I overlooked several of the more useful spells on the list. Necromancy does seem to be more situational, so I'll oppose that instead.
I think a longbow would the better investment since it can be reloaded as a free action, leaving me that move action to get some distance from the target. That 2/day limit is gonna be tough.
OP - can I just say I think you're the man? That array sucks, and you're still gonna take it and run with it. I'm also really impressed with the Wizard route. In 20+ years of playing, I've never been a spell-slinger.
As for constructive advice, I'd say put your early stat pumps into one of your low scores (perhaps WIS), you won't need to pump INT until 12th level. After that, switch back to WIS.
You should consider that as a non-melee combatant, you won't be spending cash on arms and armor. Do yourself a favor, buy a Belt of Physical Prowess ASAP. Spend your money on Attribute pumpers.
With a strenght of 8 I'd say he's better off with a light crossbow.
Good call.
In any case, I second the above posters. You are probably better off dropping necromancy and taking abjuration, unless you have a particular reason to keep necromancy. (The higher level necromancy spells, while extremely powerful, are also often quite situational, and you can generally afford memorizing them for 2x spell slots).
Agree here, too. Abjuration has a lot of good spells.
You don't need to buy a longsword starting out, but snap one up when you kill something that has one. 1d8-1 beats 1d6-1. I've yet to play a low-level wiz or sor who didn't find himself caught in melee at one time or another. I'd go ahead and spend 2gp for a dagger, too.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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-good stuff-I think a longbow would the better investment since it can be reloaded as a free action, leaving me that move action to get some distance from the target. That 2/day limit is gonna be tough.
If you really want mobility, the teleportation subschool from the APG gives up acid dart for a very short range dim door ability. It's only 5 feet until level 4 though, and you have to be able to see where you're going. It can still get you through doors with keyholes, barred windows, and other GM infuriating circumstances. :)
I am not sure about the school but sleep is great for first level also. Great spell selection though.
If you really want mobility, the teleportation subschool from the APG gives up acid dart for a very short range dim door ability. It's only 5 feet until level 4 though, and you have to be able to see where you're going. It can still get you through doors with keyholes, barred windows, and other GM infuriating circumstances. :)-good stuff-I think a longbow would the better investment since it can be reloaded as a free action, leaving me that move action to get some distance from the target. That 2/day limit is gonna be tough.
I had taken a look at the subschool, it does look interesting. Basically an extra 5 ft. step, almost. Six acid darts is nothing special - teleportation seems to scale much more efficiently.
1 for level 1 Wizard
1 for INT 12+
1 for Conjuration schoolYou'll have 3 first level spells per day. Still tough!
However, you'll have access to Scribe Scroll. With any days off, you can scribe scrolls which can drastically increase your spells when adventuring.
And, you can always prepare the Ray of Frost cantrip instead of using a bow, or other cantrips to perform other minor magic.
Wow, completely forgot about the school slot. Whoops!
As for Scribe Scroll... hmmm, I'll need to dig up the crafting rules again.
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As for Scribe Scroll... hmmm, I'll need to dig up the crafting rules again.
XP costs are gone, so scribe scroll is quite awesome. Basically, if you've got the time you can get loads of half-price scrolls.
At 1st level I tend to have a scroll of sleep or mage armor (or both) since the former is situational, and the latter gives room to focus more on utility or offense. Sleep doesn't scale well, so my sorcerer didn't even take it as a known spell, but even she has scrolls of it (though she does not scribe them).
As for Scribe Scroll... hmmm, I'll need to dig up the crafting rules again.
XP costs are gone, so scribe scroll is quite awesome. Basically, if you've got the time you can get loads of half-price scrolls.
At 1st level I tend to have a scroll of sleep or mage armor (or both) since the former is situational, and the latter gives room to focus more on utility or offense. Sleep doesn't scale well, so my sorcerer didn't even take it as a known spell, but even she has scrolls of it (though she does not scribe them).
Just read up the rules and realized that I don't even have to invest in the craft skill to create magic items. Oops. So I just have to jack up my Spellcraft and I have nothing to worry about.
So at 1st level, it'd just take two hours and 12.5 gp to make a scroll of mage armor. 1 hour duration should be plenty of time, either way.
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as a wizard one of your most important abilities is the scribe scroll feat. They are obscenely cheap at lower levels and they drastically increase your usefullness.
At any one point in time I would attempt to have at least 3 scrolls of mage armor, shield, protection from evil. I would also have 1 vanish, and a couple grease scrolls. Buy a handy haversack.
You're going to want to prepare 1 featherfall per day and the rest you can mostly prepare color spray.
Don't forget that there are many things that are immune to color spray so you should have an alternative method of damaging/disabling these types. (disrupt undead, magic missle, or running away works well)
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make sure to create spells it cam be very useful, forinstance if you new you will fight a lich you could resarch holy rain which is basicaly sleet storm but with positve energy damage so you guys are healed and the lich would be damaged.
Researching new spells is wholely at the purview of the GM, and it can be expensive, time consuming, and often fruitless. Don't rely on this. Also, the spell you described meanders far too far into cleric land for me, as it strikes me as a cylinder of positive energy. Then it does more than channel by healing and harming simultaneously. Were I a GM, research for this spell would fail.
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Been playing a conjurer in this one campaign and my character's ability scores aren't too far off from what you have. Definitely have grease on hand, I've managed to trip up enemies and even made the BBEG drop his weapon in one encounter since you can grease their items. Also check out the APG for the spell component options, you can add a flask of acid and it'll make the grease over time cause 1 point of acid damage for as long as they hold the item (or wearing the armor if you want to be cruel).
Web is a definite when you can get it, I had to web on my own character's location and then dimension door out of it since my position got overrun... the teleportation school ability is very useful (frees up dimension door slot unless you know you need to do some serious movement).
I second the other calls for glitterdust, the benefits of blinding the nastiest opponent in combat makes a big difference. Another spell you may want to look at later on would be create pit, the ability to drop an opponent or several, cause damage, and take them out for a certain period of time as they try and climb out is really, really useful.
Definitely what McCarvin has mentioned, scribe scroll is good, and definitely pick up a handy haversack, particularly with the low strenght score. I often have my character also keep a magic missle as a back up 1st level, BUT getting a wand of magic missle might be the way to go since you can plink all day long with it (only if money is not a problem in getting this wand, a wand of healing is a higher priority).
Also check out the APG for the spell component options, you can add a flask of acid and it'll make the grease over time cause 1 point of acid damage for as long as they hold the item (or wearing the armor if you want to be cruel).
This sounds interesting. Where exactly can I find these rules?
make sure to create spells it cam be very useful, forinstance if you new you will fight a lich you could resarch holy rain which is basicaly sleet storm but with positve energy damage so you guys are healed and the lich would be damaged.Researching new spells is wholely at the purview of the GM, and it can be expensive, time consuming, and often fruitless. Don't rely on this. Also, the spell you described meanders far too far into cleric land for me, as it strikes me as a cylinder of positive energy. Then it does more than channel by healing and harming simultaneously. Were I a GM, research for this spell would fail.
As awesome as Hydro Storm would be, like Alorha said, those rules aren't really covered just yet. Plus it indeed sounds more divine than arcane.
As awesome as Hydro Storm would be, like Alorha said, those rules aren't really covered just yet. Plus it indeed sounds more divine than arcane.make sure to create spells it cam be very useful, forinstance if you new you will fight a lich you could resarch holy rain which is basicaly sleet storm but with positve energy damage so you guys are healed and the lich would be damaged.Researching new spells is wholely at the purview of the GM, and it can be expensive, time consuming, and often fruitless. Don't rely on this. Also, the spell you described meanders far too far into cleric land for me, as it strikes me as a cylinder of positive energy. Then it does more than channel by healing and harming simultaneously. Were I a GM, research for this spell would fail.
Positive energy is the unique purview of divine casters...unless you consider the disrupt undead cantrip, which does 1d6 positive energy damage to a single undead and is useable at will if memorized. Which is kind of weird since we don't see any more powerful spell of this type at higher levels on the sorc/wiz spell list.
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Also check out the APG for the spell component options, you can add a flask of acid and it'll make the grease over time cause 1 point of acid damage for as long as they hold the item (or wearing the armor if you want to be cruel).This sounds interesting. Where exactly can I find these rules?
I found out about it on herolab which has all the pathfinder expansions and from there I also found it on the d20pfsrd site, which also lists the other stuff like the use of other alchemical spell components.
You can also check it here on the d20pfsrd website
you know what though... I'm having trouble finding it in the books. argh!
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Also check out the APG for the spell component options, you can add a flask of acid and it'll make the grease over time cause 1 point of acid damage for as long as they hold the item (or wearing the armor if you want to be cruel).This sounds interesting. Where exactly can I find these rules?I found out about it on herolab which has all the pathfinder expansions and from there I also found it on the d20pfsrd site, which also lists the other stuff like the use of other alchemical spell components.
You can also check it here on the d20pfsrd website
you know what though... I'm having trouble finding it in the books. argh!
Found it, finally, sheesh. page 26 of the Adventurer's Armory
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I am currently playing in a wizard. Here are my opinions:
1. Toughness as a feat
Getting extra hp from Toughness is not a decision I would make. You wizard has a decent CON and since he is not a front liner, high hp should not be a priority for him. In fact, what is more important for him is to go first so he can establish control with grease or color spray. Therefore, I recommend taking Improved Initiative as soon as possible.
Some of the other choices, such as spell focus, are not bad either. Keep in mind that at higher levels you'll need spell penetration. The need will be offset for a while by your elf's racial ability to penetrate SR, but eventually you'll need it.
2. Necromancy vs. Abjuration
I'll have to disagree with some of the other posters here. I found a lot of abjuration spells, especially those related to energy protection, to be very situational. Instead of memorizing them as standard spells, I would buy/craft scrolls (no penalty on crafting scrolls of spells from opposing schools). There are some good abjuration spells such as protection from evil and dispel magic, but again, nothing some scrolls or a wand could not handle.
Necromancy, on the hand, has some hidden gems. I have found that ray of enfeeblement, blindness/deafness, boneshatter, and most important of all, enervation, had consistent impact in my game. I cannot stress the importance of enervation. It synergizes with all your spells that have a save, making even low level spells (such as grease) potent weapons.
3. Longbow
A great call, especially at low level when ur spells are limited.
Lastly, I would recommend a bonded object such as a ring or amulate. I know that Treantmonk strongly recommended against it, but an extra spell a day from your spellbook (as long as it's not from ur opposed school) is no joke. It has saved my char's ass a few times.
Good luck and have fun!
If you really want mobility, the teleportation subschool from the APG gives up acid dart for a very short range dim door ability. It's only 5 feet until level 4 though, and you have to be able to see where you're going. It can still get you through doors with keyholes, barred windows, and other GM infuriating circumstances. :)-good stuff-I think a longbow would the better investment since it can be reloaded as a free action, leaving me that move action to get some distance from the target. That 2/day limit is gonna be tough.
I highly recommend the teleportation subschool. Shift is excellent for escaping grapples.
I highly recommend the teleportation subschool. Shift is excellent for escaping grapples.If you really want mobility, the teleportation subschool from the APG gives up acid dart for a very short range dim door ability. It's only 5 feet until level 4 though, and you have to be able to see where you're going. It can still get you through doors with keyholes, barred windows, and other GM infuriating circumstances. :)-good stuff-I think a longbow would the better investment since it can be reloaded as a free action, leaving me that move action to get some distance from the target. That 2/day limit is gonna be tough.
I'm probably going to pick it up. Acid Dart's level by level scaling is horrible, and it just seems to be less useful overall.
Well, I'm losing my GM hat in a few weeks, so I decided to make my character ahead of time to save myself the headache. My group finally agreed to use the RAW Standard method for ability scores, and I have to say, I really drew the short end of the stick. Nonetheless, after badgering my group about keeping low scores, I decided to deal with it. No need for hypocrisy.
And so, I went a ahead and made a wizard. I'm not exactly sure of what kind of builds the rest of my party will have, but I know that they'll be a paladin, rogue, and maybe a barbarian. Seeing as I never rolled anything arcane before, I'd appreciate any advice and critiques on my build.
And no, "die and roll a new character" won't work this time around.
** spoiler omitted **
I am in the same boat(exact same class and race). I have not played a wizard as a PC in about 7 years. It is kind of strange. If it were an NPC I would no trouble building it.
I would took combat casting instead of toughness though. Luckily I have been able to not have to use it yet.
Possible build and I don't want to start a new thread.
Scribe Scroll
1 Combat Casting-It is to easy to drop a spell at low levels.
3 Improved Initiative-I know the power of going first.
5 Spell Focus(Conjuration)-Setting up Augment Summon
5B Extend Spell-Treantmonk had it as a good choice, but it may change to a crafting feat if the GM does not give me some gold(enough to buy things).
7 Augment Summoning(I know how good summons are)
9
10B Craft Wand(just a filler)
11
13
15
15B Quicken(Economy Action for the win)
What do you suggest for 9-15.
The idea is to be a support caster, and let the damage heavy party do the fighting.
We have an archer, fighter, barbarian, bard, rogue, and a paladin(not doing to much damage).
There are times when everyone can't make it. That is why the summons will be useful.
Right now I am looking at toughness to fill in for one of those feats, but that depends on how the DM responds once I become useful. Right now I have been hoarding spells, but it seems that he is letting us rest whenever we want, and that may change my strategy if he does it again for the next game.
5B Extend Spell-Treantmonk had it as a good choice, but it may change to a crafting feat if the GM does not give me some gold(enough to buy things).
I would say this is less useful for a conjurer, because (1) most conjuration spells already have decent durations, and (2) as a specialist Conjurer, you already get an extra 50% duration on your Summon spells. By 6th level, your Summoned creatures will be hanging around for 9 rounds, which is longer than most combats last.
7 Augment Summoning(I know how good summons are)
They're so good that I wonder why you'd wait until 7th level for this. I'd take it no later than 3rd. It's always a good feat, but the extra +2 / +2 packs noticeably more punch at lower levels.
Doug M.
Going first is important, and so is getting a spell off. This new DM is learning quickly, and I will be sure to be a primary target once I start using summons. Taking the other feats first allows me to not lose spells. I also need improved init because the players are very new and just charge into combat, meaning I have to cut some of the bad guys off or take them down before they get into a position that makes it impossible to avoid AoE spells like Web. They have gone down several times, but it is not a deterrent. I am trying to dance a fine line between advisor and being bossy at the table. Some welcome the advice. Others just want to charge in.
PS:If not for the DM's NPC magically spawning potions I am sure they would be dead already. I don't know how long he will have the kid gloves on either.
PS2:I might go with the summoning first, and take improved init at level 7 instead.
Thanks for the help everybody! Well, here is my final build:
Elf conjurer 1
NG Medium humanoid (elf)
hp 8 (1d6+2); Init +8
AC 12, Touch 12, FF 10 (Dex +2)
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 17, Wis 8, Cha 7
BAB +0, CMB -1, CMD 11
Fort +1, Ref +2, Will +1
Traits:
Reactionary
Focused Mind
Class Features:
Arcane bond (raven)
Arcane school (teleportation)
Opposition schools (abjuration & enchantment)
Feats:
1 – Improved Initiative
1b – Scribe Scroll
Spellbook:
0 – acid splash, detect magic, detect poison, read magic, dancing lights, flare, light, ray of frost, spark, ghost sound, bleed, disrupt undead, touch of fatigue, mage hand, mending, message, open/close, arcane mark, prestidigitation (DC 13)
1st (2+1/day) – color spray, grease, mage armor, unseen servant, enlarge person, feather fall (DC 14)
I decided to change very little in the end, the main changes being taking on the teleportation subschool, and replacing Toughness with Improved Initiative. My first game is tomorrow, so I suppose we'll see whether I live to tell the tale or not! Hopefully I don't get one-shotted by a crit *knock on wood*
That looks like a solid choice, especially with your tragically abysmal stats. D: Good luck, good sir. Are you going for the Spell Focus/Augment Summoning line next? ...or what feats are you planning for?
EDIT: When your stats suck, use strategies that are equally effective, regardless of your stats. Summoning is a great option for you in that regard. ;3
Well, it's been a while... and Balthazar the Wizard is still alive! Turned out my Dex was actually 12 though, and I changed one of my traits to Forlorn. Had a close call or two, but things have been working out so far. Here's the current build, for anyone interested.
LN Medium humanoid (elf)
hp 23 (3d6+6); Init +7
AC 11, Touch 11, FF 10 (Dex +1)
Str 8, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 17, Wis 8, Cha 7
BAB +1, CMB 0, CMD 11
Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +2
Traits:
Reactionary
Forlorn
Class Features:
Arcane bond (raven)
Arcane school (teleportation)
Opposition schools (abjuration & enchantment)
Feats:
1 – Improved Initiative
1b – Scribe Scroll
3 - Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Spellbook:
0 – acid splash, detect magic, detect poison, read magic, dancing lights, flare, light, ray of frost, spark, ghost sound, bleed, disrupt undead, touch of fatigue, mage hand, mending, message, open/close, arcane mark, prestidigitation (DC 13)
1st (3+1/day) – color spray (DC 14), grease (DC 15), mage armor, unseen servant, enlarge person, feather fall, mount, obscuring mist, shocking grasp, summon monster I (pending)
2nd (2+1/day) - flaming sphere (DC 15), glitterdust (DC 16)
Next feat will most likely be Augment Summoning, and of course the stat point next level will go to Int. I could use those boosted save DCs and skill points. I'm a little lost on what to take for my 5th-level bonus feat though.
Well, it's been a while... and Balthazar the Wizard is still alive! Turned out my Dex was actually 12 though, and I changed one of my traits to Forlorn. Had a close call or two, but things have been working out so far. Here's the current build, for anyone interested.
** spoiler omitted **
Next feat will most likely be Augment Summoning, and of course the stat point next level will go to Int. I could use those boosted save DCs and skill points. I'm a little lost on what to take for my 5th-level bonus feat though.
Really? You only have 12 Dex even after the +2 racial bonus to dex from being an elf? Ouch. It was bad enough as it was...
Anyway, as for your 5th level wizard feat...
Are you allowed to use Ultimate Magic? The wizard has some wizard specific feats (Arcane Discoveries) which can be taken as a bonus feat. They're kind of interesting. Ultimate Magic also has some new metamagic you could pick up, like Toppling Spell.
Also, depending on your GM and the other characters in your group, Craft Wondrous Items could be a nice feat. Somewhat depends on how much your GM gives you in terms of loot, and largely depends on how much time you actually have to craft stuff. Another feat that could make you popular with the party is Craft Arms and Armor. ...and Extend Spell is a pretty decent metamagic to pick up at this point.
Ultimate Magic is permitted, and in terms of time available to craft stuff it will rely more on what the party decides to do forcing the players.
~Aod43254
Ultimate Magic is permitted, and in terms of time available to craft stuff it will rely more on what the party decides to do forcing the players.
~Aod43254
Cool, good to know.
There are the Arcane Discoveries you qualify for:
Arcane Builder - Useless right now. You don't have a craft feat yet!
Fast Study - This one is interesting. I'd like to see it in practice rather than postulating about it. You can start your day preparing all but... I don't know, 2 or 3 spell slots. You can quickly prepare the slots while adventuring between battles. Could be quite handy.
Feral Speech - Perhaps useful? Maybe alongside all of the monsters you summon.
Multimorph - The versatility could be handy. Ask your GM how it works alongside Polymorph Any Object (Although you may not ever reach 8th level spells...)
Split Slot - You can turn 1 slot into 2. At this point, turn 1 3rd level slot into 2 1st level spell slots or turn 1 2nd level slot into 2 0 level slots. It doesn't sound like a terribly effective way to spend a feat, but I kind of like getting more cantrips. Maybe it'll get more useful as you level.
And so ends the story of the mighty wizard Balthazar, at the hands of a vile assassin.
~Aod43254
Somehow I knew no ranks in Perception would bite me sooner or later. D:
Aww, I felt kind of invested in the well-being of this wizard with abysmal stats. :'(
I'd like to hear the stats you get on your next character. I hope its a little better this time!
...and no ranks in perception? lol, maybe your death was deserved. (and your raven didn't seem him either?)
Aww, I felt kind of invested in the well-being of this wizard with abysmal stats. :'(
I'd like to hear the stats you get on your next character. I hope its a little better this time!
...and no ranks in perception? lol, maybe your death was deserved. (and your raven didn't seem him either?)
Heh, yeah, the raven utterly failed its check, losing its master and voice as a result.
My next character is being introduced as the magus half brother of Balthazar, who'll wind up joining the party for vengeance.