It's a very slow burner that requires a lot of DM investment. And, unlike Kingmaker, that investment doesn't involve several exotic new rules systems. I'm currently running Part 2, and have been doing my best to engender conversation on these boards, but not much seems to be taking.
If you exclude the old Carrion Crown posts that say something like "vampires vs. werewolves? what a dumb idea", that probably accounts for about half of the number of posts in that subforum.
;-)
Honestly, I was very underwhelmed by Serpent's Skull. I wish that there was a place that people could post reviews for entire APs, rather than just chapter-by-chapter, because I would like to express my sadness there.
Furthermore, the problem is exacerbated by the fact that both Kingmaker and Carrion Crown are blockbuster APs that were tremedously hyped and had strong built-in audiences that wanted to love them before they were even released.
Serpent's Skull didn't have much buildup. And the sorts of things that it appeared to promise and would have been its built-in audience (that being "pirates" and "Indiana Jones") didn't actually end up appearing in the way that fans of those genres were hoping.
cos it looked liked 'pirates and aztecs oh my....and wasnt'
i found the first mod quite draining as a player
cos it looked liked 'pirates and aztecs oh my....and wasnt'
i found the first mod quite draining as a player
If your GM tunes down the survival-bit, it can be a good introduction to aztecy stuff (afraid to spoil by saying more), and the Player's Guide makes it pretty clear it won't be pirate-themed.
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I have a new group (wonderful new friends met here on the messageboards) and we started Serpent's Skull on Friday night. The first session went great.
I've GM'd Runelords, Second Darkness, Legacy of Fire, and now this one. Every adventure path has required a lot of work to tailor it for my groups. Too railroady? I tone it down a bit, or really convince my players they are off the rails and doing their own thing, even when they're not. Too sandboxy? I overlay a story of my own to drive the thing forward.
I don't have a single complaint about any of these adventure paths. Sometimes there's a lot of work involved, but this is the kind of work I love, so no problem there.
Here's what I've loved about all the APs. The world feels real. The dilemmas are intriguing for the most part. Everything isn't black and white for the players. It's a little grittier. They have to get their hands dirty sometimes. They have to make hard choices.
The biggest problem for me is that there is so much information in these adventures that never gets into the hands of the players. I think they lose the big picture sometimes because they never saw it in the first place. I wish we had a better mechanic than knowledge checks to reveal the story behind the encounters. Anyway, just a few thoughts. I hsve high hopes for Serpent's Skull. I've been through the whole thing and I haven't found any part of it that I think I can't make work.
The end of the first book with
Fighting
Vaults of Madness was great. I just wish it also wasn't a salad bar of bad guys.
We're knee-deep in Book #5 and we, as a party, have no clue why our characters are in the city, what we're looking for, or what's going on in the metaplot. We're roleplaying halfassedly and just kind of progressing for progression's sake, because really, there's nothing to latch on to as important.
The end of the first book with ** spoiler omitted ** was fantastic.
Fighting ** spoiler omitted ** and ** spoiler omitted ** and not actually getting that Indiana Jones feel back... kind of made the AP turn out lame in my opinion.
Vaults of Madness was great. I just wish it also wasn't a salad bar of bad guys.
We're knee-deep in Book #5 and we, as a party, have no clue why our characters are in the city, what we're looking for, or what's going on in the metaplot. We're roleplaying halfassedly and just kind of progressing for progression's sake, because really, there's nothing to latch on to as important.
thats exactly whats happened with us and we aren't entirely out of book three yet! we've been bogged down in book three since christmas!
It's like the molasses of role playing!
The end of the first book with ** spoiler omitted ** was fantastic.
Fighting ** spoiler omitted ** and ** spoiler omitted ** and not actually getting that Indiana Jones feel back... kind of made the AP turn out lame in my opinion.
Vaults of Madness was great. I just wish it also wasn't a salad bar of bad guys.
We're knee-deep in Book #5 and we, as a party, have no clue why our characters are in the city, what we're looking for, or what's going on in the metaplot. We're roleplaying halfassedly and just kind of progressing for progression's sake, because really, there's nothing to latch on to as important.
thats exactly whats happened with us and we aren't entirely out of book three yet! we've been bogged down in book three since christmas!
It's like the molasses of role playing!
That's totally my impression of book three. We really enjoyed Smuggler's Shiv - it was everything I hoped the adventure path would be, and Racing to Ruin looks plenty varied too, but having read through Seven Spears it just seems to turn what should be the awesome discovery of this lost city into a total meatgrinder of fight, fight, fight. It seems very repetitive and I can see my group - who are really big on roleplaying and less on extended combat - really having their edge dulled. I'm really concerned that the 'movement' in the AP essentially stops for three books; there's so much awesomeness in Heart of the Jungle it seems a shame that it seems to get boiled down to finding a legendary lost city only to be forced to slash your way through hundreds of meat puppets to secure it. Has anyone got any tips for making this less onerous? I think one, or at the most two, factions to wipe out would have been sufficient. Particularly as we're stuck in Saventh-Yi for the next three books.
A party could play politics, playing faction off against faction as far at you're willing to take it. You may only have to tweek the diplomacy DCs a little. You wouldhave to develop the factions a bit, give them more desires and fears to give the PCs something to work with. NPCs from the shiv that survived could embed themselves in their exploration faction to become agents for the party in the rival faction, allowing them to help manipulate the factions in some grand scheme of the PCs design. A good party could engage that level of it, and possibly do 'strange bedfellows' with some of the evil factions as well, but seems like there's many more options for a shady/evil party, though. A good party can really only ally with a clear conscience with one of the city factions, and few of the expedition factions.
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That's totally my impression of book three. We really enjoyed Smuggler's Shiv - it was everything I hoped the adventure path would be, and Racing to Ruin looks plenty varied too, but having read through Seven Spears it just seems to turn what should be the awesome discovery of this lost city into a total meatgrinder of fight, fight, fight. It seems very repetitive and I can see my group - who are really big on roleplaying and less on extended combat - really having their edge dulled. I'm really concerned that the 'movement' in the AP essentially stops for three books; there's so much awesomeness in Heart of the Jungle it seems a shame that it seems to get boiled down to finding a legendary lost city only to be forced to slash your way through hundreds of meat puppets to secure it. Has anyone got any tips for making this less onerous? I think one, or at the most two, factions to wipe out would have been sufficient. Particularly as we're stuck in Saventh-Yi for the next three books.
I really suggest the boggard tribe for elimination, followed shortly by the vegepygmies. There's nothing interesting in those areas, to be frank, beyond Tentagard. Have the PCs run into and save the human faction fairly early on, and get them involved with their maybe-crazy-maybe-sane leaderess. Pit the factions against eachother. The Aspis Consortium could be working with the serpentfolk and the rakshasa, the Red Mantis with the troglodytes, the Sargavan Government could be kidnapped or pinned down by the charau-ka, and the Shackles Pirates, in our game, were all mentally dominated by the aboleth in the lake. The goal is to transform the module from a meat grinder into a very interconnected and interesting meat grinder.
To get it down to one or two factions, the serpentfolk and the rakshasa versus the human tribesmen would be good. Cut out the lillend. Draw up the central island as a dungeon, and then have the PCs do about two sessions of things outside the main dungeon (rescuing the govt from charau-ka, fighting off an ambush, seeking a secret entrace that goes under the lake to the island) and then have the PCs dungeon crash through the Aspis Consortium/Serpentfolk dungeon.
Hack and slash meat puppets, yea that is pretty much it.
I have had to change so much in book three, just to keep things going, Im practically running a home brew and it just occurred to me, recently that maybe i should abandon anything in any of the APs book from here on out with the exception of the general story line.
I too feel there is tons of information written (wasted) in the APs that there is no mechanic to get it in the hands of the PCs.
In book one, The Shiv, there was lots about the walls and studying them that were great, and then nothing.... I've narrated the story a bit here and there by saying, there is more walls to read...which is really hokey.
With respect to post counts, it seems obvious to me.
It follows Kingmaker. A lot of people are probably still playing/discussing Kingmaker. The only people posting here either got through KM faster than average (few people get through APs in 6 months) or chose to skip KM for whatever reason... or some other mitigating circumstance.
I think KM was just a hard act to follow, numerically.
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City of Seven Spears is the Memory of Darkness of this AP. OK, it's somewhat better, since it's more easily salvageable, but still - if I see an adventure in the AP that requires me to spend energy in order to liven it up and make it something else than just a meat-grinder, I lose interest.
Vault of Madness is somewhat better (hey, it's a Greg A. Vaughan adventure), but it's still "run around and kill stuff, only with more variety".
Dear Paizo - no more outsourcing adventures to untested writers, regardless of their status as Enworld honchos. Stick to Petts, Vaughans, Monas, Jacobses (Jacobi?), Cortijos and other writers who feel the flow.
We got bored/derailed with city building... Might restart KM and put the whole rulership/building on the sidelines with assigned NPCs.
City of Seven Spears is the Memory of Darkness of this AP. OK, it's somewhat better, since it's more easily salvageable, but still - if I see an adventure in the AP that requires me to spend energy in order to liven it up and make it something else than just a meat-grinder, I lose interest.
Vault of Madness is somewhat better (hey, it's a Greg A. Vaughan adventure), but it's still "run around and kill stuff, only with more variety".
Dear Paizo - no more outsourcing adventures to untested writers, regardless of their status as Enworld honchos. Stick to Petts, Vaughans, Monas, Jacobses (Jacobi?), Cortijos and other writers who feel the flow.
Hah Jacobi!
+1 to no more random authors. Too many of these people think they are writing a book and not an adventure, we aren't trying to amuse the DM folks!
I didnt think memory of darkness was bad at all, (ofcourse I do remember racing through it too)
Memory gave out some sick treasure (+3 moderate fortification elven chain anyone)for a gamin group like ours that rarely buys stuff or crafts it, that is good treasure!
City of seven spears even lacks good treasure and the stuff that is there is highly unlikely to be used by your party....
City of seven spears even lacks good treasure and the stuff that is there is highly unlikely to be used by your party....
But in general, you're right.
CC is eclipsing SS? Are we talking about the post-count of the SS sub-section of the boards or of actual PbP games? O_o
If it's the former then I don't really have much of a comment. If it's the latter then I'd suggest sorting the PbP forum by post-count. The only APs that seem to have more post-heavy games are predominantly of far older APs like RotRL, Savage Tide, and Legacy of Fire. Alexander, Navoir, and I all have very fast-posting SS games that are right up there.
So my opinion would be, the posts in the SS forums might be scant because everyone is too busy playing. :)
FWIW though, SS really does leave a lot of 'filling-in' to the GM. However, I rather like that since it really allows you to make the game and the NPCs your own. Hell, I think my gang actually had 1000 posts just from the time spent interacting with and building friendships with the NPCs while still aboard the ship. To me, having the story as more of an outline than a strict plot has been a huge benefit for placing it in my own homebrew. Naturally everyone has different desires and expectations, but so far I've really been enjoying GMing it...
Thanks Asphesteros and Ice Titan - those are excellent ideas which I think could make it a lot more interesting than as written. My group would definitely enjoy the diplomacy / politics angles - and they're not particularly 'good' in outlook so they won't have any qualms about doing what they need to get the job done. I also like the idea of making the central island a dungeon. I'll revisit the book with these ideas in mind, and hopefully get more out of it than I had at first impression.
And to those who are saying 'no more untested writers', well, I'm not sure that's entirely fair. Sure, the design isn't that imaginative since it is largely about killing hordes of creatures, and - as has been pointed out - the rewards aren't great, but what - nobody in the editorial team for the AP read it and thought, hang on a minute, this is really repetitive? Someone inhouse read and approved the book - it wouldn't have taken much to go back to the author and ask them to tone down on the hack and slash and provide a bit more variety in the encounters. I mean, my heart sank when I got to the third 'rinse and repeat' and since I don't seem to be the only one how come this wasn't picked up in the design editing?
Also, if you want to take a break from all the ruined city stuff, you could run your group through a home game version of PFS Scenario 34 - Encounter at the Drowning Stones. It's set in another part of the Mwangi Expanse, possibly giving opportunities to use material from Heart of the Jungle. One of the villains in it could even be substituted for a rematch with one of the villains from earlier in the AP (assuming they got away).
Also, if you want to take a break from all the ruined city stuff, you could run your group through a home game version of PFS Scenario 34 - Encounter at the Drowning Stones. It's set in another part of the Mwangi Expanse, possibly giving opportunities to use material from Heart of the Jungle. One of the villains in it could even be substituted for a rematch with one of the villains from earlier in the AP (assuming they got away).
Thanks for the excellent heads up on that - I'm buying that now. One of my players was asking for more 'side quests' (too much computer gaming if you ask me) only the other day. This sounds ideal.
I will soon start this AP with my groups and I am really worried.
I had only read Part 1 and 2 when we decided what should be next and I promised them High Adventure and that the AP would feel like Indiana Jones or Prof. Challenger.
Then I got the other Parts :-/
I think abbout somehow re-write Parts 3 to 6 into something new, but I don't know if I will find the time to do so.
The snakemen are borring (at least if you have used FR's yuan Ti a lot - I have) and to follow up a huge ruined city with a huge ruined city is a strange choice
I will soon start this AP with my groups and I am really worried.
I had only read Part 1 and 2 when we decided what should be next and I promised them High Adventure and that the AP would feel like Indiana Jones or Prof. Challenger.
Then I got the other Parts :-/
I think abbout somehow re-write Parts 3 to 6 into something new, but I don't know if I will find the time to do so.
The snakemen are borring (at least if you have used FR's yuan Ti a lot - I have) and to follow up a huge ruined city with a huge ruined city is a strange choice
I'm doing a Serpent Skull/Kingmaker Mashup which may help, as it can give the players periodic breaks from life in the ruins to manage their island of Smuggler's Shiv and land holdings along the now re-opened overland trade route between Eleder and Kalabuto, as well as make the city exploration more about truly conquering owning and ruling the lost city, rather than just dungeon crawling it, and let you as a DM develop the story to involve more about interal Sargavan poltics and the actions of the factions. Giving them a real tangable stake in the future of Sargava can help lend gravitas to the machinations of the Serpents too.
Thanks Asphesteros and Ice Titan - those are excellent ideas which I think could make it a lot more interesting than as written. My group would definitely enjoy the diplomacy / politics angles - and they're not particularly 'good' in outlook so they won't have any qualms about doing what they need to get the job done. I also like the idea of making the central island a dungeon. I'll revisit the book with these ideas in mind, and hopefully get more out of it than I had at first impression.
And to those who are saying 'no more untested writers', well, I'm not sure that's entirely fair. Sure, the design isn't that imaginative since it is largely about killing hordes of creatures, and - as has been pointed out - the rewards aren't great, but what - nobody in the editorial team for the AP read it and thought, hang on a minute, this is really repetitive? Someone inhouse read and approved the book - it wouldn't have taken much to go back to the author and ask them to tone down on the hack and slash and provide a bit more variety in the encounters. I mean, my heart sank when I got to the third 'rinse and repeat' and since I don't seem to be the only one how come this wasn't picked up in the design editing?
It's my general understanding from reading parts of posts that the person charge of writing the entire module, Kevin Kulp, turned it in just before it was due to be edited and it was incredibly threadbare.
So, Rob McReary and James Jacobs had to slide in there like the Blues Brothers and pulp up the module at breakneck speed so that they could make their deadlines. It makes sense if you look at the module-- it's essentially "One ziggurat, two to five encounters" for the entire book.
They didn't say as much, though, because they're professionals and they don't want to rag on a dude, but that's the impression I got.
Thanks Asphesteros and Ice Titan - those are excellent ideas which I think could make it a lot more interesting than as written. My group would definitely enjoy the diplomacy / politics angles - and they're not particularly 'good' in outlook so they won't have any qualms about doing what they need to get the job done. I also like the idea of making the central island a dungeon. I'll revisit the book with these ideas in mind, and hopefully get more out of it than I had at first impression.
And to those who are saying 'no more untested writers', well, I'm not sure that's entirely fair. Sure, the design isn't that imaginative since it is largely about killing hordes of creatures, and - as has been pointed out - the rewards aren't great, but what - nobody in the editorial team for the AP read it and thought, hang on a minute, this is really repetitive? Someone inhouse read and approved the book - it wouldn't have taken much to go back to the author and ask them to tone down on the hack and slash and provide a bit more variety in the encounters. I mean, my heart sank when I got to the third 'rinse and repeat' and since I don't seem to be the only one how come this wasn't picked up in the design editing?
It's my general understanding from reading parts of posts that the person charge of writing the entire module, Kevin Kulp, turned it in just before it was due to be edited and it was incredibly threadbare.
So, Rob McReary and James Jacobs had to slide in there like the Blues Brothers and pulp up the module at breakneck speed so that they could make their deadlines. It makes sense if you look at the module-- it's essentially "One ziggurat, two to five encounters" for the entire book.
They didn't say as much, though, because they're professionals and they don't want to rag on a dude, but that's the impression I got.
Ah, that makes a lot of sense - that's exactly how it reads. I guess putting out 'part x of x' to a monthly schedule means this is going to happen once in a while, you can't afford the luxury of slipping something back to a later slot if it's not ready. Should probably be grateful it's as good as it is - just a shame this threatens to derail the entire AP. And I do agree with another post upthread - I'm not convinced finding and exploring a lost city in book 5 was the best idea when the players have just spent two books doing exactly that. But there are some great ideas here for imbuing the AP with a little more imagination in the roleplaying area, so thanks to all.
yea the whole snake men thing has lost me too. I was actually thinking of going off tangent and concentrating on gorilla kingness, and more planet of the apes, and maybe ended the AP stuff at around 12th level. (essentially having nothing underground, and just cutting the whole underground portion off, adding a bit to the ruin city and calling it good)
thinking about having a small contingent of the serpent folk (to wrap up that loose end) get thwarted trying to discover some ritual to awake their god (on the scale of the whole zura thing) and be done with it for now.
And then finish with more homebrew, as I bought the witch war legacy and plan on running that with this group.
Once they conquer the entire Lost city, I was thinking of them actually trying to run it/rule it and build it up kingmaker style.
as well as maybe finding more evidence to follow the snake man trail to an actually populated city and find snake men living underneath that (possibly or possibly not) but the city down below is really not interesting me at all at this point.
Once they conquer the entire Lost city, I was thinking of them actually trying to run it/rule it and build it up kingmaker style.
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City of Seven Spears is the Memory of Darkness of this AP. OK, it's somewhat better, since it's more easily salvageable, but still - if I see an adventure in the AP that requires me to spend energy in order to liven it up and make it something else than just a meat-grinder, I lose interest.
Vault of Madness is somewhat better (hey, it's a Greg A. Vaughan adventure), but it's still "run around and kill stuff, only with more variety".
Dear Paizo - no more outsourcing adventures to untested writers, regardless of their status as Enworld honchos. Stick to Petts, Vaughans, Monas, Jacobses (Jacobi?), Cortijos and other writers who feel the flow.
"City of Seven Spears," a Pathfinder RPG adventure for 7th-level characters, by James Jacobs, Kevin Kulp, and Rob McCreary.
Could the problem with this one be the multiple authors? I'm not sure but I think having 3 authors for a single AP adventure is unusual for Paizo.
Actually, Kevin was scheduled to be the author. Something happened, and suddenly James appeared as a co-author, and later Rob.
My wild guess is that the initial author FUBAR'ed (this has happened before), and James (and later Rob) had to step in to complete the adventure.
My wild guess is that the initial author FUBAR'ed (this has happened before), and James (and later Rob) had to step in to complete the adventure.
At the risk of going off-topic, when you say "this has happened before"... when?
I'm not so sure that any one person can be thrown under the bus for Serpent's Skull (SoSS in particular). The Paizo folks are too classy to play that kind of game, and no one here has the inside scoop on anything that Mr. Kulp did or didn't do other than armchair private detective agency speculation.
Each AP has its issues and people that think it is the end-of-the-world bad. From what I've read of Serpent's Skull on my own and seen around the boards its problems are no more terrible than the "hey you're all in another pocket dimension" issues that Legacy of Fire had. Or the typical "We killed gedrin lamm and then the campaign fell apart" you read over on Curse of the Crimson Throne. The most common reason people have difficulty with an AP is that they haven't let the whole thing get published before they dive in and find out around mondule three or four that they have been hyping up a completely different animal to the PC's.
In terms of a reply to the OP. I blame Kingmaker (get out the torches and lynch me :) ). Kingmaker is massive in terms of hours of play. I think a lot of folks (my group included) were waist deep in that AP when Serpent's Skull came out (we've been rolling on KM for almost a year and only about half way thorugh). Eventually we'll come around to giving Serpent's Skull a go, but for now it's on the back burner.
why is everyone ripping on serpent's skull?, personally i love it. i really enjoyed fleshing out parts of saventh-yhi that weren't covered. i had a couple of problems with it (tho easily fixed).
the random encounter table was a little underwhelming (i made my own incorporating bestiary 2 and misfit monsters (pretty much just wolf's in sheeps clothing).
the treasure was also disappointing (again easily fixed, the mantis blade is no longer axiomatic and works for regular assassins too).
a gazetteer or more info on azlanti culture would have been great but no problem.
overall i loved it and we are having a blast (we are currently part way thru vaults of madness).
it should be noted that this is the second adventure i've gm'd after a 20+ year break (the first 3.5 castle ravenloft) and my first for pathfinder (i'm also running an erractically gathered kingmaker campaign).
also i realize the term "everyone" is an exaggeration. it just seems a lot of people aren't happy with it.
I'm still in the first book with my group (first time players + sandboxyness + busy schedules = slow games) but with all this supposed future let-down of finding the place I'm contemplating adding something to do with viperwall in varisia into the mix.
A lot of my player's characters hail from varisia and I think it would help tie in the characters a bit to the world, offer character development hooks, and give me a chance to flex my new but growing DM muscles.
I also am making the gorilla king actually be King Louie from the jungle book. Only this King Louie discovered fire and is a barbarian/fire oracle/rage prophet.
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I still have to give a thorough peruse to the last books, but I think I know one tweak that would set this AP on course in all the places people may feel it tends to go off it:
Change Vyr-Azul's name to Yazoth, and change the back-story of the serpent folk's return to Ilmurea from being coincidental to Yazoth's discoveries on Smuggler's Shiv, to instead being a direct consequence of it. Make Yazoth's story paralle the PC's:
In Book one, after learning of Tazion, Yazoth is interrupted by the PCs and either escapes in gaseous form by using the Zura statue, or if killed, agents of the Coils of Ydersius recover enough of Yazoth's remains to raise her. She informs her people of her findings, and they set her to find Ilmurea, in just the same way the factions elist the PCs to find Yaventh-Yhi.
From this point on, the AP is a race for the skull. If they don't figure it out, the PCs should be informed by the factions. Yes this makes the AP a same old same old "prevent the end of the world by getting the McGuffin first plot" - but it's a tried and true formula, the AP turns out to be that anyway, and the reason why it's such a well-worn trope is because it works. Having this big goal as the major overarching quest puts all the stuff in the middle into perspective, giving it all gravitas, and also, as I'll explain, give more options to avoid the 'meat-grinder' feel many have noted.
In Book Two, Yazoth reaches Tazion first, traveling via Sekamina's primary tunnel north out of Sarvaga (See Into the Darkland p38). Issilar is not an exile, rather he is an associate of Yazoth left behind to keep watch if the humans learned of the place and followed, and also act as gate keeper for any Coils of Ydersius agents that are making their way to Ilmurea overland and need access to the maproom. He is not still looking for the gems, he rather keeps three and has hidden the others in case he's overtaken.
In Book Three, parallel to the human factions expeditions attempting to explore and conquer Saventh-Yhi on the surface, Yazoth and her expedition have found and are attempting to retake Ilmurea beneath it. Here's where the 'save the world' meta-quest can pay off, because the PCs can use this to try diplomacy on the evil factions they otherwise would be forced to fight. Add in a circumstance modifier to the diplomacy DCs if the PCs can convincingly demonstrate "enemy of my enemy is my friend" based on evidence of the Serpents' plans. Some groups may buy it, some may not, some may fall into infighting none the less. This would make the scenario more easily turned into classic strange bedfellows coalition building, rather than more just monster clearing.
In Book Four, I would also be tempted to eliminate the whole Eando plot-line altogether, or at least sideline it. This AP is billed as the PCs discovering lost cities and uncovering dire plots. It steals the PCs spotlight to have them show up just to find some other adventurer already having done it. By having the PCs know from the start that the over arching quest is to thwart the serpents in the city under the city, these NPCs are not necessary to introduce it. To keep them in, it might be better to have these character be members of the Pathfinder faction that were abducted for interrogation by the serpents. Yazoth wants to know how much of a threat the humans are. Juliver escaped to the surface after suffering torture which broke her mind, Eando escaped but fled the wrong way into the depths, and was recaptured after making the contacts he made. The magic portal was disabled by the serpents in an attempt to delay the inevitable confrontation with the humans. Sozatha is one of Yazoth's expedition who fell prey to ghoul fever in the battles underground, and rather than being put out of his misery, in cold blooded serpent fashion, was abandoned on the other side of the gate as a means to dispose of him while also causing problems for the humans.
In Book five and six, Yazoth has been earning XP and gaining levels all this time, just like the PCs have, and has been building her influence and strength of her faction just as the PCs have. So she's leveled up since Smugglers Shiv to the point where you can just re-skin Vyr-Azu's stats as the new and improved Yazoth. The final Boss fight therefore becomes the tried and true final confrontation with the villain who started it all by wrecking the Jenevere on the shiv - 'and it all goes back to the beginning'. After getting their final revenge on Yazoth, then they fight Ydsersius becoming the new "Saviths" of the "New Saventh-Yhi" for the ultimate victory.
Granted this would not make it original, in fact the fix is to make it maybe the oldest one in the book, but the old tropes are old tropes because they're good and they work.
I like the way you think! I've done something similar with the plot.
** spoiler omitted **
Could you perhaps post the puzzle? My PCs are in Tazion, and I've been looking for something to spice up the ziggurat.
Puzzle there would be better too, and also the other idea is great too:
I like making the most important encounters all related to one running theme, rather than coincidental, so I have them all as agents of Yarzoth, but having them all answering the same call from headless Ydsersius sounds good too. Maybe the PCs can get this though their own dreams, since Shiv starts off with dreams, then there's a dream quest in Book II. Maybe call it a side effect of their experience on the Shiv or the dream quest in Book II that they can pick up on fragments of the dreams Yderseus is sending our, as a mechanism to foreshadow the major encounters and put them in context. Ydersius is established as contacting non-serpentfolk in dreams to recruit them into the Coils of Ydersius, this meshes well with that.
Could I please get a copy of that puzzle too? That sounds like a much better method for what I had in mind...
Thanks, I got it. Saved a sticky-note where you mentioned I should. :)
I'm not sure how to post a pdf here. I would be happy to send you a copy of it if you let me know the email address to send it to.Could you perhaps post the puzzle? My PCs are in Tazion, and I've been looking for something to spice up the ziggurat.
I like the way you think! I've done something similar with the plot.
** spoiler omitted **
I'd love a copy of that too, if it's still going the rounds? Anything I can use to plug in sounds good. Addy is colin dot fisher one at the old gmail dot com.