Childe Roland's page

I'm not so sure that any one person can be thrown under the bus for Serpent's Skull (SoSS in particular). The Paizo folks are too classy to play that kind of game, and no one here has the inside scoop on anything that Mr. Kulp did or didn't do other than armchair private detective agency speculation.

Each AP has its issues and people that think it is the end-of-the-world bad. From what I've read of Serpent's Skull on my own and seen around the boards its problems are no more terrible than the "hey you're all in another pocket dimension" issues that Legacy of Fire had. Or the typical "We killed gedrin lamm and then the campaign fell apart" you read over on Curse of the Crimson Throne. The most common reason people have difficulty with an AP is that they haven't let the whole thing get published before they dive in and find out around mondule three or four that they have been hyping up a completely different animal to the PC's.

In terms of a reply to the OP. I blame Kingmaker (get out the torches and lynch me :) ). Kingmaker is massive in terms of hours of play. I think a lot of folks (my group included) were waist deep in that AP when Serpent's Skull came out (we've been rolling on KM for almost a year and only about half way thorugh). Eventually we'll come around to giving Serpent's Skull a go, but for now it's on the back burner.

If you buy rules and you have to immediately houserule them so that they properly function with the rest of the established system, then it is an inferior product and not really worth the value you paid for it.

Couldn't have said it better Mok.

Requiring a full 20 level class (alternate, base, whatever) to "choose" abilities or bonus feats in order to achieve the same reliability and base-line playability of the other available classes is broken (no other class requires choosing an ability in order to do their main spotlight activity which for the gunslinger is combat combat combat).

These mechanic adjustments should either be available as "static" abilities doled out at a balanced level pace or the item itself needs to function differently. I would abhor the latter and hope for the former.

Guns in a fantasy setting should not, in my opinion, be modified to be more reliable. Neither, then, should the Gunslinger recieve some super secret special gun that reverts to a normal crappy gun when they set it down. They should simply be able to use guns better than anyone or the class should be scrapped as it will not be fun.

I can totally get behind guns misfiring and being generally sketchy and unreliable. I'd even be okay with a low level Gunslinger blowing themselves up. But the Gunslinger as a fun alternate class option should, through class advancement and basic features, be better. I realize they can currently "choose" to be more reliable. I believe that is the fly in the ointment. As they advance they should not have to "choose" between abilities that allow them to do cool things in combat and abilities that keep them from sucking.

Again, I'm cool with low level gunslingers having to waste grit to avoid their weapon's destruction. I just don't think it should even be a concern for a Gunslinger beyond a certain level, and all they should be worried about is how to build their gunslinger up in the way that fits their character concept and that will have their groupmates clapping them on the back as they charge in guns blazing into the infernos of Dis.

TLDR; The most specialized-item dependent class in the game needs to be able to, through concrete advancement or basic starter features, be 100% effective with said item (insert Paizo's capable handling of game balance and level to ability pacing). If no optional bonus feats, daily use abilities or special class powers were ever chosen/used the Gunslinger should still be able to pull the trigger on his/her gun all day every day to blow out the evil/good/neutral brains of their adversaries.

Kaiyanwang wrote:

houstonderek wrote:

Kaiyanwang wrote:

In another thread, Cartigan had a very good idea IMHO:

Apply the malfunction only to non proficent users.

There's merit to this.

This is why I like it:

1) If I have the EWP:gun, I'm very likely to "live" a lot with the weapon, cleaning and treating it very well. An "noob" will not have the same care.

2) Explain why I have gunslinger PCs, but pistols and muskets are not so diffused in the gameworld.

I can dig that, too. Makes sense, and gives the class more of a "mystique" (which it badly needs, right now I think the concept is very flawed, it doesn't make much sense as a base class to me).

Having the fire-arm free of malfunction for the Gunslinger is something I can get behind as well. It would bring it more in line with an Alchemist's extracts. Unlike the alchemist you can't logically keep the weapon from functioning for another character (having undefeatable magical super safety latches would be a bit handwavy imo). So it makes sense that in the hands of anyone else we return the malfunction chance.

BUT you then have another process by which the incredibly item dependant Gunslinger can be permanently removed from his weapon. Imagine a situation where the weapon is taken (sink the Gunslinger's battle ship right there in all actuallity but there are GM's that wouldn't be that vindictive). Further suppose that it is picked up dramaticly and appropriately by a well intentioned cohort to defend the disabled Gunslinger. You are putting a lot of faith in the dice working out in a beneficial way. If the dice don't come up right you just forced the poor gunslinger to watch as his lynch pin item is broken by "friendly fire sundering."

What if, instead of instituting the already published misfire chance on the gunslinger's weapon while out of his hands, we do something like: treat the weapon as non-proficient due to customizations in anyone/thing else's hands, a disable device check that scales with the gunslinger's level is required for another entity to even ready the weapon for firing, reduce the damage output of the weapon if it is fired successfully, and the capstone is that we add a "backfire" mechanic that will occur on an attack roll of 15+ that does the gunslinger's current gun damage directly to the weilder without harming the weapon itself.

I would think that the above detractions would serve to devalue the weapon for theft and resale ("mate this thing doesn't even fire...I'm not paying for this claptrap"). It would render the weapon cumbersome, inneffective and outright dangerous in the hands of another. Finally it would allow the gunslinger to make maximum use of the weapon with their class features without worrying about his gun exploding in his hands while firing at a charging Minotaur.

There is still the issue of a very specialized weapon to deal with in terms of treasure, player gear upgrades and repair or replacement of broken/created guns. But that isn't really pertinent to the current line of discussion.