How did your party kill the mother? [SPOILERS]

[Belle Mythix]

Nevermind then.

[Briccone]

My second group had just as much trouble with this encounter as the first. The lacedons paralyzed the half-elf fighter and quickly brought him down. Once the Mother casted darkness and started channeling negative energy (I had some good rolls), Pezock went down and the half-orc monk was reduced to 1 hit point. The party decided against withdrawing and continued to exhaust their healing magic to keep the half-elf fighter stabilized and the Monk up. The elven archer missed half his attacks due to the darkness. With their healing magic all gone, the elven archer down and the rest of the party in single digits, they finally decided to do an all out retreat. They grabbed the elven archer who is now bleeding out and left the bodies of Pezock and the half-elf fighter. They returned to the surface, had Jask heal hem, gather all the rest of the NPC and went down and quickly finished the Mother (she only had four hit points left). They used the raise dead scroll on the half-elf fighter but they buried Pezock with his sawtooth sabre.

[Tomppa]

Our party of 4 level 2 PC's had, surprisingly, no trouble. We managed to take care of all of the Lacedon's without alerting the others - Except for the last encounter where we took down all but 1, and the one managed to shout for the Mother before he was killed on the next round. We had in our party:

A Dwarven Monk. Darkvision would have helped, but the spiritual weapon took care of him and kept him drinking potions, he was basically tied for most of the fight.

A Human Fighter TWF with a whip and a sword - I don't think he managed to trip the mother at all, but I think he did deal some damage.

A Gnome Summoner inside an Eidolon, used enlarge person and reach to deal damage to the Mother - I think we rolled pretty good for the miss chances.

And my Cleric (undead lord) - my skeleton, while fragile, was mostly ignored by the mother, and with darkvision and two claws after a 5ft step managed to finish her when she had taken too much beating and retreated into the caves.

I guess we just rolled lucky (like our monk taking out a lacedon in two shurikens before he acted at all)

[chefsal]

Briccone wrote:

My second group had just as much trouble with this encounter as the first. The lacedons paralyzed the half-elf fighter and quickly brought him down. Once the Mother casted darkness and started channeling negative energy (I had some good rolls), Pezock went down and the half-orc monk was reduced to 1 hit point. The party decided against withdrawing and continued to exhaust their healing magic to keep the half-elf fighter stabilized and the Monk up. The elven archer missed half his attacks due to the darkness. With their healing magic all gone, the elven archer down and the rest of the party in single digits, they finally decided to do an all out retreat. They grabbed the elven archer who is now bleeding out and left the bodies of Pezock and the half-elf fighter. They returned to the surface, had Jask heal hem, gather all the rest of the NPC and went down and quickly finished the Mother (she only had four hit points left). They used the raise dead scroll on the half-elf fighter but they buried Pezock with his sawtooth sabre.

Player in Briccone's campaign, Half-Orc Monk 2

After reading some of the other encounters, I realize we didn't do so bad. When we returned, she only had 4 HP left and compared to most of these other parties, we were only 2nd level characters!

[Pirate]

Yar!

My group almost didn't.

Things started off regularly enough. They secured a rope and went down the hole into the caves, killed the two Festrogs at the birthing chambers, found the Cap's note, and continued along their merry way.

The Lacedon on guard at The Throat happened to actually be there, and upon seeing the group, screamed and ran away. Rather then give chase, the group set up in that underground chamber to fight there. They made quite the noise, and drew the hoard of Lacedons back into The Throat to fight them there.

The initial strategy was sound: flank the entrances to The Throat, and overwhelm them as they entered. Unfortunately, the Lacedon's abandon and their ability to swim through the water unhindered (yay Swim speeds!) combined with some of the WORST ROLLING I've seen from my players in a long time caused THEM to be overrun. Half the group wound up either paralyzed or unconscious, and they made such a noise and faught for so long that... yup... the Mother herself came all the way to The Throat to see what her children were up to.

She instantly channeled to heal all of her kids, and begane really giving my players the hurt. They ended up using ALL of their hero points, and things were still dire. One ofthe PC's decided to take The Mother up on her offer of becoming one of her children! This paused the battle for a moment, just enough for The Mother to lower he guard and let that PC get a free swing (and sneak attack) against her. It left barely a scratch. They then started using their Plot Twist cards, and ended up using one to have all 5 of the NPC's camping out above to come down to help them.

I gave each of my 5 players one of the 5 NPC's to control, giving them some quick stats for each... and it was STILL almost a TPK! It took another 5+ rounds, with 3 of the NPC's knocked out or paralyzed, and the other two in single digit HP before The Mother and all of her children were finally put to rest.

tldr: By the skin of their teeth (and the help of the NPCs).

~P

[Maplewood]

My group was well matched for this memorable encounter:
L3 half-orc oracle (bones)
L3 human summoner
L3 human barbarian
L3 human monk

The oracle was key. He has darkvision and the ability to control undead from one of his mysteries. Funny enough, prior to the battle with the Mother, he gained control of the lacedon/captain and used him to scout around. So my group had essentially 3 members with darkvision: the oracle, the summoner's eidolon and the lacedon/captain. The summoner was able to "share senses" with his Eidolon for a few rounds which also helped. Being immersed in darkness, the monk and the barbarian took a beating. The eidolon fell at some point. They exhausted most of their cure potions. Eventually, it was a skeleton summoned by the oracle that killed the Mother.

[Gray]

Mother Thrunefang was one of the best fights so far, and luck did play a role. The party was spread out fighting the last of the lacedons when she arrived. As such, only two got caught in the darkness. They quickly retreated and it became a ranged battle with the PCs trying to figure out where she was. Two PCs fell into the negatives before they were able to corner her. The fight took 13 rounds.

[Gray]

Regarding other questions, my group finished this AP and didn't really use the NPCs at all for exploration or fights. Disease and poison were always a danger, but really didn't hamper them too much. Once a camp is built and NPCs are working as healers, the chance of disease becomes pretty low.

[BQ]

My group did it long ago, but from memory the deep thinkers that they are went head on, got smashed, and then went and got the cleric NPC.

[Randomdays]

A bit confused from the whole thread - from what I read, the ghouls attack while the mother just watches. When the ghouls are defeated, she's impressed and offers the party the chance to become ghouls. When they refuse, then she attacks by herself.

Unless I read it wrong, I don't think she's supposed to attack with the ghouls at all.

[Pirate]

Yar!

Randomdays wrote:

A bit confused from the whole thread ...

... and I am confused by your confusion. For several reasons.

just before her stat block:

Nylithati does not attack on sight - instead, impressed with their persistence, she offers them life beyond death - she'll bite them and infect them with ghoul fever, and then let them languish in the cavern of unbirth (area V20) until they die and are reborn as her newest children. ANy who refuse her hideous offer are only fit for food.

Tactics section of her state block:

Before Combat Nylithati casts shield of faith on herself if she can before entering combat or responding to the sounds of battle in area V27.

During Combat Nylithati opens combat by casting darkness. She then lurks in the darkness while she casts spiritual weapon, cause fear, and finally divine favor before attacking. If outnumbered by more than three foes, she channels negative energy - she also uses channel negative energy to heal her lacedon allies whenever one is damaged.

also at the end of area V27. Feasting Cavern description:

... They shriek and howl if they see intruders, raising enough of a din as they lurch forth to attack to alert Mother Thrunefang in area V28 to the trouble. She arrives in 1d4 rounds to investigate and join the battle.

No where does it say that she waits for all of her children to die before doing anything. The closest you get is "does not attack on sight - instead, impressed with their persistence, she...". In fact, everything else indicated that she will join the fight if she must, and will do what she can to protect her children, fighting along side them. "uses channel negative energy to heal her lacedon allies whenever one is damaged."

I'd dare say that, as written, she would give her offer while the PCs are still getting attacked by her children, calling them off if they agree, or joining the feast if they refuse.

However, another point of contention I have is this (and I dare say this is the most important one): This is a complex and organic game played by and run by humans. There is no one way to do it. Each group going through this AP, each GM running it, has every right to change anything and everything they feel necessary for the fun of their own game (which combined the fun of both GM and players alike). Also, even running things "by the book" is not nearly as straight forward, cut and dry, and simple as "plot A is presented, PCs do A, NPCs react to A" without variation at all. Changing variable circumstances as created by the players often will (and in my opinion, should) chance how things run, change how NPCs act and react, etc.

"She does not attack on sight"... but what if the PC's do? "...impressed with their persistence"... but what if the PC's look like a bunch of bumbling idiots when they arrive? Maybe the lacedon's are destroying them and she has no desire to bring them into the fold? What if the PCs run past the guards screaming in fear as they bolt into the mother's lair and her? What if one of the PC's is a holy warrior who convincingly gives a great speech about how his faith will bolster him and his companions against the corruption of this foul monster the moment he sees the mother? What of the PC's were extra crafty and ambushed the mother with such ferocity that she couldn't even say a word? Or they brought the fight to her before encountering all the other children and they come running to her rescue? Heck, one could even say that "impressed with their persistence, she offers them life beyond death - she'll bite them and infect them with ghoul fever..." doesn't need to be a verbal offer at all... She just goes ahead and starts biting the PCs the moment she decides they are worthy, without even saying a word!

The great thing about this game (and all table top role playing games) is the flexibility of the medium. How anything and everything can change according to your actions. How even the basics of it (the setup, the background info, even the plot itself) can change in order to better fit your current group of players ("players" includes the GM). The details of the plot are up to us to mold and change and develop organically. We have guidelines (called Adventure Paths, Modules, Adventures, etc), but once we start to play, they become ours (each respective group individually and respective of other groups) to mold and shape and develop into our own. For one group, it may go exactly as you said, all the lacedons die while she watches, then she gives them the offer and/or fights alone. In another group, she may protect and fight with her lacedon children, giving them her offer if they do impress her with fighting skills. In another group, she might be a living werewolf infecting cannibals with lycanthropy! And in yet another group, she may not even exist at all. All or these (and even more possibilities yet to be imagined) are all viable ways to run this encounter.

So, how did your group deal with the mother? We're all curious and would love to hear your story!

~P

[Randomdays]

Thanks for the clarification. Should have read closer.

As yet, I haven't run a group thru it, but I'm getting ready to to do some scripting on it and trying to decide how to do so. Since it seems a tough encounter, seperating it into 2 parts looked like a possibility.

Serpent's Skull in NWN

Ingame converation during combat is not possible as the characters are "busy" fighting, so the conversation would have to be before or after the lacedon battle. Perhaps she offers, sends the lacedons in, and then waits the 1-4 rounds and joins in. The party attacking her would bring her in earlier of course.

[aaron Ellis]

About to finish Souls for Smuggler's Shiv. Mother Thrunefang went down like a chump to my group.

Short Version: three out of four PCs had darkvision, all were level 3, mother was all alone, Aasimar paladin and beastmorph vivisectionist ended her quickly.

Long Version: after defeating half of the cannibals and taking over the camp, the Players brought in the NPCs and everyone rested in the lighthouse. At 3rd watch of the night, I rolled a ghoul for a random encounter and had it moving around outside. The druid and another character detected it and attempted to slow it down from a distance, without success. By the time they got outside, it had scattered the driftwood covering the pit and clambered down into the darkness. The group decided to wait until morning before following it.

Inside the cave, the players moved quickly and made short work of the festrogs. They soon encountered the previous night's ghoul, soaking in a pool, transforming into a lacedon bit by bit as it dribbled water onto itself. They completely caught it off guard, but still had some trouble fighting it in the water, with one player getting paralyzed and nearly drowning. Further on, the group ran into three full lacedons and took them out despite some bad saves vs paralysis and disease. Alchemist charged, was surrounded, paralyzed and nearly CDGed. Paladin and Druid took the pressure off long enough to make a difference. Ghouls couldn't hit the paladin, which helped.

Returning to the pool area, players were ambushed by the witch (I leveled her up to 5th, with retrained hexes and spells), wearing the body of a male cannibal (thanks to Marionette Possession), along with three other cannibals. Two PCs failed slumber hex saves, one fell into the water. PC witch slumbered cannibals while the others fought and tried to wake allies. Cannibals eventually fell and alchemist's fire sent Malikadna's mind back to her own body.

Understanding that the lighthouse might be under attack, the players still decided to push forward, encountering and eliminating more lacedons, but at a quicker pace. None escaped. When they finally reached mother Thrunefang, she was all alone. Hearing the death cries of her children, she buffed, created fog, cast darkness and waited. When the PCs approached, she channeled for very little damage and then moved deeper into the cave. Unhindered by darkness, the heroes pushed through the mist and began to make short work of mother Thrunefang. The alchemist's claw, claw, bite attack routine finished her off. He now carries her head as a trophy.

This was a very anticlimactic encounter in an otherwise exciting dungeon. The ghouledon baptism, the first batch of lacedons and the cannibal ambush were all memorable moments.

Takeaway: While it was a good reward for the PCs moving quickly, the action economy disparity of being all alone really hurt the mother. That, along with the fact that the primary PC meleers could see her perfectly in the dark, her usual tricks weren't able to save her. I wish that I had expanded the mother's passage and lair a bit and given her a consort or two. That would have given her some breathing room to get off a spiritual weapon and then channel for more damage.