Still trying to understand replay


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Grand Lodge

This last weekend our local PF group got together for our monthly game. There were about 5 tables with 5-7 players at each table.

Now originally I was going to run a game but found there were not enough higher level players to make a table. So instead I was going to play.

There was one higher level game for which I had no characters high enough to play in. So this table was not an option.

There were 4 other tables I could have played at, however I had already played in each scenario. Also, each table had between 5-7 players and did not need an extra in order to make a table.

The net result was I was unable to play a game this month and had to leave.

Is this really the way replay was meant to be?

Liberty's Edge 5/5 **

You are welcome to replay to your heart's content but will no receive no chronicle past the first time you play a module.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

The organizer should always make an attempt to seat you. If you had already played all the low-tier options and would have been playing for no credit anyway, why not grab a pregen and sit at the high tier table?

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Krome wrote:


Is this really the way replay was meant to be?

Short Answer yes... Longer Answer, even in the old Replay rules, still yes because The old Replay rules would have only allowed replay to add a 4th PC.

Also what TwilightKnight said.

Grand Lodge 2/5

TwilightKnight wrote:
The organizer should always make an attempt to seat you. If you had already played all the low-tier options and would have been playing for no credit anyway, why not grab a pregen and sit at the high tier table?

Also it may have been possible with 4 tables of 5-7 players to take 1 from each table and create a 5th table. You could have possibly gotten GM credit for running something you've already gotten player credit on.

5/5

Mark Garringer wrote:
Also it may have been possible with 4 tables of 5-7 players to take 1 from each table and create a 5th table. You could have possibly gotten GM credit for running something you've already gotten player credit on.

Pfft. GMing is lame.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 **

Somehow this still confuses people. Hyrem or someone else please spell it out specifically for the people that are being obtuse. I originally thought they were trolling but some people that I genuinely respect are somehow misreading the new rules.

3/5

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

It seems unclear to me because in one part of the section they suggest that you can only earn credit for playing a scenario once as a player and once as a GM, but in other parts of the same section they say that the have removed the database limitation of one scenario per player. They also open up the section by saying that "If you play you earn 1 credit that is applied to the character that played through the scenario."

It's about as clear as mud to me.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

Preston Poulter wrote:

It seems unclear to me because in one part of the section they suggest that you can only earn credit for playing a scenario once as a player and once as a GM, but in other parts of the same section they say that the have removed the database limitation of one scenario per player. They also open up the section by saying that "If you play you earn 1 credit that is applied to the character that played through the scenario."

It's about as clear as mud to me.

The database used to give error messages if the same PFS number was used for the same scenario, making GM credit impossible since it would think there was an error. Now you can report a scenario once as a GM and once as a player, as long as two different characters receive the credit. The reporting system has no way to know if a credit is player or GM credit, which is why the wording in that section seems unclear.

Whenever you play a scenario, the PC that played always gets the credit. The only time you get to pick which PC gets credit is when you GM a scenario.

Grand Lodge

Well, I could have lived without a chronicle. Lord knows I have run the same scenario over and over and over and didn't get extra chronicles. But the rule says replay can be used only to make a table, and all of the tables had made.

Now I could have chosen to GM a lower level game by breaking up tables to form a new table. However, I had prepared a higher level scenario and did not have a low level prepared scenario with me. I did browse the only other adventure I had access to but decided that winging a scenario on the fly without having done any prep reading at all would have been disastrous for everyone involved.

Interestingly the only real option, as Twilight Knight pointed out, would have been to play a pregen in the higher level game. Unfortunately I have never played a pregen and that idea never even occurred to me.

So in this particular circumstance there WAS a way for me to have played. I just didn't think of it.

NOW all this being said, please do not anyone feel for a minute I was upset or put out for not getting to play. I wasn't in the least. In fact I was able to go on home and get some VERY much needed sleep. :)

The only reason for bringing this up is that sooner or later we will run into this situation again at the monthly event and maybe it will be someone who will be much more upset (we have some people drive for hours to get to our event, so I REALLY do not want to have to EVER turn these guys away).

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Mark Moreland wrote:
Preston Poulter wrote:

It seems unclear to me because in one part of the section they suggest that you can only earn credit for playing a scenario once as a player and once as a GM, but in other parts of the same section they say that the have removed the database limitation of one scenario per player. They also open up the section by saying that "If you play you earn 1 credit that is applied to the character that played through the scenario."

It's about as clear as mud to me.

Whenever you play a scenario, the PC that played always gets the credit. The only time you get to pick which PC gets credit is when you GM a scenario.

If you aren't aware, please understand that people are reading this language as stating that they can get credit for an unlimited number of characters. The first sentence in your passage above says "whenever you play..." Whenever tends to be understood to apply to each instance played.

They're then doing the gamer thing and ignoring the sentence that says you only get credit twice (once as GM, once as player). They're doing so because the language is contradictory. Gamers have a tendency to read contradictory language to say exactly what they want it to. :)

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Krome wrote:


Interestingly the only real option, as Twilight Knight pointed out, would have been to play a pregen in the higher level game. Unfortunately I have never played a pregen and that idea never even occurred to me.

And that's why I put the responsibility on the organizer moreso than the player. The player may not know what the options are. IMO it is our duty to provide every option to the player and let them decide what is in their best interest. Sometimes, that is to just go home. Sometimes, play a pregen. Or play without credit, Etc.

3/5

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Not to bifurcate the topic, but I don't understand the Pregen thing either. How can you play a Pregen at a high level table? Aren't all pregens 1st level? Why wouldn't you play one of your own low level characters at the higher level table instead?

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

Howie23 wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
Preston Poulter wrote:

It seems unclear to me because in one part of the section they suggest that you can only earn credit for playing a scenario once as a player and once as a GM, but in other parts of the same section they say that the have removed the database limitation of one scenario per player. They also open up the section by saying that "If you play you earn 1 credit that is applied to the character that played through the scenario."

It's about as clear as mud to me.

Whenever you play a scenario, the PC that played always gets the credit. The only time you get to pick which PC gets credit is when you GM a scenario.

If you aren't aware, please understand that people are reading this language as stating that they can get credit for an unlimited number of characters. The first sentence in your passage above says "whenever you play..." Whenever tends to be understood to apply to each instance played.

They're then doing the gamer thing and ignoring the sentence that says you only get credit twice (once as GM, once as player). They're doing so because the language is contradictory. Gamers have a tendency to read contradictory language to say exactly what they want it to. :)

Let's not take sentences out of context. I said "whenever you play" referring to playing instead of GMing. When you earn credit for playing a scenario for the first time, the PC that ran through the scenario gets the credit. AS OPPOSED TO when you GM a scenario for the first time, you may choose which of your PCs receives the credit.

The rules state how many times you may receive credit for playing or running a given scenario. If players choose not to read the rules, that isn't something any level of rephrasing can ameliorate.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

Preston Poulter wrote:
Not to bifurcate the topic, but I don't understand the Pregen thing either. How can you play a Pregen at a high level table? Aren't all pregens 1st level? Why wouldn't you play one of your own low level characters at the higher level table instead?

We have pregens at 1st, 4th, and 7th levels. No matter what Tier a scenario is written for, there is a pregen to play, even if it requires you to play up or down a subtier.

3/5

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Mark Moreland wrote:
Howie23 wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
Preston Poulter wrote:

It seems unclear to me because in one part of the section they suggest that you can only earn credit for playing a scenario once as a player and once as a GM, but in other parts of the same section they say that the have removed the database limitation of one scenario per player. They also open up the section by saying that "If you play you earn 1 credit that is applied to the character that played through the scenario."

It's about as clear as mud to me.

Whenever you play a scenario, the PC that played always gets the credit. The only time you get to pick which PC gets credit is when you GM a scenario.

If you aren't aware, please understand that people are reading this language as stating that they can get credit for an unlimited number of characters. The first sentence in your passage above says "whenever you play..." Whenever tends to be understood to apply to each instance played.

They're then doing the gamer thing and ignoring the sentence that says you only get credit twice (once as GM, once as player). They're doing so because the language is contradictory. Gamers have a tendency to read contradictory language to say exactly what they want it to. :)

Let's not take sentences out of context. I said "whenever you play" referring to playing instead of GMing. When you earn credit for playing a scenario for the first time, the PC that ran through the scenario gets the credit. AS OPPOSED TO when you GM a scenario for the first time, you may choose which of your PCs receives the credit.

The rules state how many times you may receive credit for playing or running a given scenario. If players choose not to read the rules, that isn't something any level of rephrasing can ameliorate.

I strongly disagree. It is the part of the speaker to make himself clear, and they speaker has failed in this regard. Do blame the victim and say it's the reader's fault. It clearly is not.

Let's take a look at this sentence.

Quote:

If you play you earn 1 credit that is applied to the character that played through the scenario

That states explicitly that you get 1 credit applied to the character that played through the scenario. Now let's add a word, and say, "... you earn 1 credit that is applied to the FIRST character that played...". Now the sentence says what it seems it was intended to convey. That you only get credit for playing a scenario once.

My wife is an excellent copy editor and I've considered many times referring her to Paizo, because they often commit egregious errors in their writing. It's just out and out sloppy. Which I can understand. They're running a business and added cost and time is not desirable, but let's not blame the readers here.

3/5

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

In other news, let's say I play a higher level Pregen for a higher level game, how do I assign credit for that? Do I just given it to another of my characters?

Grand Lodge

TwilightKnight wrote:
Krome wrote:


Interestingly the only real option, as Twilight Knight pointed out, would have been to play a pregen in the higher level game. Unfortunately I have never played a pregen and that idea never even occurred to me.

And that's why I put the responsibility on the organizer moreso than the player. The player may not know what the options are. IMO it is our duty to provide every option to the player and let them decide what is in their best interest. Sometimes, that is to just go home. Sometimes, play a pregen. Or play without credit, Etc.

Well to be fair, we do have a Venture Captain there who is the official runner of the event, BUT I am an admin of sorts as well, one of his Venture Lieutenants (Paizo really needs to add this as an official position). So I really don't put the blame at all on the organizer. We had a LOT of players there (easily 40+).

Also I was not really concerned for myself. It was not a big deal if I didn't get to play (sleep sounded very good to me as an alternative).

Like I said the only reason I brought it up at all is it occurred to me that it could happen again but to one of the guys who drove hours to get to the event. THEN it would be a catastrophe.

So now, we are forearmed and better prepared for this uncommon occurrence to take place.

We are trying to find ways to better organize and communicate to players. But it often seems like our communication is one way. Us to the other players. When event time happens we get more people than expected playing different characters than expected.

Personally I am at wits end on finding ways to better organize these events. We often have 30 to 40+ players show up from all over the state. We have limited space (I think we accommodate 6 tables max). And we, as organizers, have no freaking idea how many will show up and what scenarios we should have prepped and how many GMs we need.

Regardless of all that, I don't ever want to turn away a player from a game. And you guys have helped with some good ideas. :)

Thanks and please keep good ideas rolling in. :)

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Mark Moreland wrote:


Let's not take sentences out of context. I said "whenever you play" referring to playing instead of GMing. When you earn credit for playing a scenario for the first time, the PC that ran through the scenario gets the credit. AS OPPOSED TO when you GM a scenario for the first time, you may choose which of your PCs receives the credit.

The rules state how many times you may receive credit for playing or running a given scenario. If players choose not to read the rules, that isn't something any level of rephrasing can ameliorate.

I get it, you get it, and now it appears he gets it and is passing the word.

Thanks!

Liberty's Edge 5/5 **

Thanks Mark. You have far more patience than I could ever have with this sort of thing.

Howie23 wrote:


They're then doing the gamer thing and ignoring the sentence that says you only get credit twice (once as GM, once as player). They're doing so because the language is contradictory. Gamers have a tendency to read contradictory language to say exactly what they want it to. :)

Ah, that explains it. I'm a terrible gamer.

Grand Lodge

Mark Moreland wrote:
Preston Poulter wrote:
Not to bifurcate the topic, but I don't understand the Pregen thing either. How can you play a Pregen at a high level table? Aren't all pregens 1st level? Why wouldn't you play one of your own low level characters at the higher level table instead?
We have pregens at 1st, 4th, and 7th levels. No matter what Tier a scenario is written for, there is a pregen to play, even if it requires you to play up or down a subtier.

Hey Mark, thanks so very much for everything you have done. I just want to make sure you know that your hard work is appreciated by us all.

I do have one more question in this situation, and I think I know what you'll say, but want to ask anyway.

In a similar situation, assuming I had remembered I could play a Pregen, would I have been able to play in a scenario I had already played at, even if the table had enough people to play already?

My assumption is, that if the alternative is sending a player away, then absolutely.

See, my biggest concern has nothing to do with receiving chronicles, but about a player being sent home because there were enough players to make a table.

(and please note that this is really being asked as a precaution in case this situation does happen so we can be better prepared)

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Preston Poulter wrote:
In other news, let's say I play a higher level Pregen for a higher level game, how do I assign credit for that? Do I just given it to another of my characters?

You don't you can't get credit for playing a Higher level pregen, even if you have never played before.*

*Unless it is a PFS high level sanctioned Module**, which does have rules for assigning credit for playing a high level pregen, but they have different rules and not related to this.

** Module as in these


Preston Poulter wrote:
In other news, let's say I play a higher level Pregen for a higher level game, how do I assign credit for that? Do I just given it to another of my characters?

No. Playing a higher level pregen earns you nothing at all. Only playing a 1st level pregen can earn a chronicle sheet, and even then only if you make that pregen into a character that you register as your own.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Preston Poulter wrote:


That states explicitly that you get 1 credit applied to the character that played through the scenario. Now let's add a word, and say, "... you earn 1 credit that is applied to the FIRST character that played...". Now the sentence says what it seems it was intended to convey. That you only get credit for playing a scenario once.

My wife is an excellent copy editor and I've considered many times referring her to Paizo, because they often commit egregious errors in their writing. It's just out and out sloppy. Which I can understand. They're running a business and added cost and time is not desirable, but let's not blame the readers here.

Taken out of the rest of the text, sure that sentence could be misleading, but when you couple it with the adjoining material..."You receive GM or player credit regardless of the order you play/GM the scenario. You may not earn more than 1 player credit and 1 GM credit regardless of how many times you GM or play the scenario. You are free to use PPP to seat legal tables, but if you already have earned your credits you do not earn any additional ones"...The meaning becomes clear. IMO, it IS the reader who is the issue in this case.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Gallard Stormeye wrote:

Thanks Mark. You have far more patience than I could ever have with this sort of thing.

Howie23 wrote:


They're then doing the gamer thing and ignoring the sentence that says you only get credit twice (once as GM, once as player). They're doing so because the language is contradictory. Gamers have a tendency to read contradictory language to say exactly what they want it to. :)
Ah, that explains it. I'm a terrible gamer.

Yep. You went ahead and read the next couple of sentences. Failed at lack of context. Slacker. ;)

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Howie23 wrote:
Gallard Stormeye wrote:

Thanks Mark. You have far more patience than I could ever have with this sort of thing.

Howie23 wrote:


They're then doing the gamer thing and ignoring the sentence that says you only get credit twice (once as GM, once as player). They're doing so because the language is contradictory. Gamers have a tendency to read contradictory language to say exactly what they want it to. :)
Ah, that explains it. I'm a terrible gamer.
Yep. You went ahead and read the next couple of sentences. Failed at lack of context. Slacker. ;)

I actually chuckle at this entire conversation. In my home gaming group, myself and the other gamers in the group do this quite often. We read one sentence or the first paragraph of a spell or item and proceed with taking an action until someone later points out, "um... that spell doesn't work that way, did you read the 3rd word in sentence two?"

3/5

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
TwilightKnight wrote:
Preston Poulter wrote:


That states explicitly that you get 1 credit applied to the character that played through the scenario. Now let's add a word, and say, "... you earn 1 credit that is applied to the FIRST character that played...". Now the sentence says what it seems it was intended to convey. That you only get credit for playing a scenario once.

My wife is an excellent copy editor and I've considered many times referring her to Paizo, because they often commit egregious errors in their writing. It's just out and out sloppy. Which I can understand. They're running a business and added cost and time is not desirable, but let's not blame the readers here.

Taken out of the rest of the text, sure that sentence could be misleading, but when you couple it with the adjoining material..."You receive GM or player credit regardless of the order you play/GM the scenario. You may not earn more than 1 player credit and 1 GM credit regardless of how many times you GM or play the scenario. You are free to use PPP to seat legal tables, but if you already have earned your credits you do not earn any additional ones"...The meaning becomes clear. IMO, it IS the reader who is the issue in this case.

I had my wife read the whole thing. Neither my friend nor myself told her our interpretation so as to not bias her. We all read it and came to a different conclusion that you do. Therefore, it's not the reader. It's poorly written.

Grand Lodge 3/5

Preston, here is the majority of the section in question.

Guide to Organized Play wrote:

You may replay a scenario as needed to fill tables, but

may only earn credit for a given scenario in the following
manner:
• If you play you earn 1 credit that is applied to the
character that played through the scenario.
• If you GM a scenario, you earn 1 credit that can be applied
to any character that hasn’t played through the scenario.
• You receive GM or player credit regardless of the
order you play/GM the scenario. You may not earn more
than 1 player credit and 1 GM credit regardless of how
many times you GM or play the scenario. You are free to
use PPP to seat legal tables, but if you already have earned
your credits you do not earn any additional ones.

It seems clear to me, but I know the intent.

Would you find it clearer if the 3rd bullet was 1st?

EDIT: I think that layout may also contribute to your confusion, as the 3rd bullet is in a new column.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Preston Poulter wrote:


I had my wife read the whole thing. Neither my friend nor myself told her our interpretation so as to not bias her. We all read it and came to a different conclusion that you do. Therefore, it's not the reader. It's poorly written.

I think we might better understand your objection to the language if we understood what you don't.

Your previous post seems to indicate that your issue is with earning a credit. If you read all three bullet points, it appears to be clearly spelled out.

What part of the text is unclear? Is it when/how you receive credit for playing? Is it when you can replay? Something else?

3/5

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Ok. Here's an exact play by play of how we have tended to read the section. I'll post the text, and then intersperse it with the thought process it engenders.

Quote:


Replaying Scenarios and Chronicles
You may replay a scenario as needed to fill tables, but
may only earn credit for a given scenario in the following
manner:
• If you play you earn 1 credit that is applied to the
character that played through the scenario.

OK. So I get this far and I'm telling myself, well this section is specifically entitled "Replaying" so they MUST be discussing players who are replaying a scenario, else why would they put it here in this section.

The first bullet point says you earn 1 credit that is applied to the character that played through a scenario. I'm honestly not sure what a credit is, but I'm assuming it to be a PFS chronicle sheet that gives money, XP, and prestige. I'm not sure, but that seems the most likely interpretation.

OK, so the first bullet point says that I get a PFS Chronicle sheet for replaying a scenario with a character if it's needed to fill tables.

Quote:


• If you GM a scenario, you earn 1 credit that can be applied
to any character that hasn’t played through the scenario.
•You receive GM or player credit regardless of the
order you play/GM the scenario. You may not earn more
than 1 player credit and 1 GM credit regardless of how
many times you GM or play the scenario. You are free to
use PPP to seat legal tables, but if you already have earned
your credits you do not earn any additional ones.

OK, so now I'm reading this and it seems to contradict what the first bullet point says. Obviously there must be one right answer, so I'm forced to try to divine what it is based on contradictory statements. The first bullet point says that I get credit applied to the CHARACTER that plays a scenario if I am replaying a scenario as needed to fill tables. The last bullet point says I only get 1 player credit regardless of how many times I play it. Except that that contradicts the first bullet point. Hmm, that's a head scratcher.

Well the first bullet point says CHARACTER and the last bullet point says PLAYER CREDIT so many those two things are different. Perhaps what it's trying to tell me is that a given character only gets credit once for a given scenario, but that I can replay it with other characters. I suppose that's one interpretation, and it seems to be somewhere in the ballpark of what they are trying to tell me. I'll keep that in mind and just keep reading.

Quote:


• If you spoil the plot for the table, the GM has
the right to ask you to leave the table and is under no
obligation to award you a chronicle sheet. Be very careful
about character knowledge versus player knowledge.
If you’re concerned about possibly spoiling something
during the course of play, take the GM aside and ask how
she would like it handled. Remember: the goal of replay
is to make sure fun gaming happens, not to remove the
fun from gaming.
Replay will likely not happen very often, but it adds
an extra weapon to the arsenal of GMs who run smaller
game sessions and often have trouble finding a scenario
that fits all of the players present. We removed the player
check in the reporting system that checked whether or
not you had played the scenario before. That check has
been replaced with a character check that alerts you if
your character has played a scenario before (and thus
does not count the scenario).

Ah, now it's clear. They have removed the database restriction, so now I can credit multiple character with the same scenario. This clarifies and confirms my earlier suspicion that a PLAYER CREDIT (3rd bullet point) and a credit for a given CHARACTER (first bullet point) must be different somehow. Although I'm still not entirely sure what a credit is, it seems that credit is somehow related to the database, which must figure back to the PFS Chronicle sheet.

Got it.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/5

Preston Poulter wrote:

Ok. Here's an exact play by play of how we have tended to read the section. I'll post the text, and then intersperse it with the thought process it engenders.

Quote:


Replaying Scenarios and Chronicles
You may replay a scenario as needed to fill tables, but
may only earn credit for a given scenario in the following
manner:
• If you play you earn 1 credit that is applied to the
character that played through the scenario.

OK. So I get this far and I'm telling myself, well this section is specifically entitled "Replaying" so they MUST be discussing players who are replaying a scenario, else why would they put it here in this section.

The first bullet point says you earn 1 credit that is applied to the character that played through a scenario. I'm honestly not sure what a credit is, but I'm assuming it to be a PFS chronicle sheet that gives money, XP, and prestige. I'm not sure, but that seems the most likely interpretation.

OK, so the first bullet point says that I get a PFS Chronicle sheet for replaying a scenario with a character if it's needed to fill tables.

Quote:


• If you GM a scenario, you earn 1 credit that can be applied
to any character that hasn’t played through the scenario.
•You receive GM or player credit regardless of the
order you play/GM the scenario. You may not earn more
than 1 player credit and 1 GM credit regardless of how
many times you GM or play the scenario. You are free to
use PPP to seat legal tables, but if you already have earned
your credits you do not earn any additional ones.
OK, so now I'm reading this and it seems to contradict what the first bullet point says. Obviously there must be one right answer, so I'm forced to try to divine what it is based on contradictory statements. The first bullet point says that I get credit applied to the CHARACTER that plays a scenario if I am replaying a scenario as needed to fill tables. The last bullet point says I only get 1 player credit regardless of how many times I play it. Except that that...

I can agree that 1-3 need cleaning up a bit. But you are making a HUGE jump in the idea that a removal of the database restriction lets you replay on all characters. All it mentions is it will alert you if you have played that scenario with that character. It doesnt say anything about allowing all your characters to play the same scenario, only that the database wont kick you if you register multiple characters.

Granted, they could just leave that part out completely.

3/5

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

But it's a leap supported by the first bullet point. I'm a bit surprised that so many people are trying to fault the reader and not the document. The truth is that a well written document can make itself understood to a wide audience, whereas a poorly written one and end up with multiple, conflicting interpretations. This is one such document. Let's just fix it and stop blaming the readers.

Grand Lodge 3/5

I guess one of the things that I don't understand is why you interpret things that way with player credit, but not GM credit. The language is the same.

And please don't think that I am criticizing you. I think that the questions should be asked so the new players' guide can be as good as possible.

The Exchange 3/5

Preston Poulter wrote:
But it's a leap supported by the first bullet point. I'm a bit surprised that so many people are trying to fault the reader and not the document. The truth is that a well written document can make itself understood to a wide audience, whereas a poorly written one and end up with multiple, conflicting interpretations. This is one such document. Let's just fix it and stop blaming the readers.

Yar. There are a lot of things about this document that could have been better.

If you want, Preston, heck, if *any* of you want to type up a clear and concise way to clarify this and post it to the Community Update Thread, we can release a better version of this document.

-Pain

The Exchange 5/5

My understanding of it works .. and I'm not copying the bullet points for a reason -- I think people get too hung up on trying to read between the lines and "divine" what the actuall information is.

My understanding

2 chronicles
1 from playing the mod
1 from GMing the mod
replay for no chronicle - infinite

Preston; I don't think anyone is blaming the readers specifically as everyone interprets things slightly differently. To the authors I'm sure it's perfectly clear, to us trying to understand what we can and cannot do it may not be that clear.

Personally; I read the document as it's intended; but that's me.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

I have a follow-up question. It's a corner case I've never seen, but plausible.

Let's say Doug's highest-level character, Dango, is 6th Level, and the game store is hosting a high level (7th - 11th Level) scenario. Dango isn't eligible to play, so Doug takes a 7th-level Kyra pre-gen and plays through the scenario.

Doug earns no credit, no loot, and no faction prestige (since Kyra isn't a member of a faction.)

Two weeks later, Dango rises to 7th level. Can Doug now replay the scenario in question with Dango and receive credit?

My understanding is: no. He'd be allowed to re-play the scenario, for no credit, to make a legal table, but he's already played the module, with the 7th-level pre-gen, and isn't eligible for credit.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Chris Mortika wrote:
My understanding is: no. He'd be allowed to re-play the scenario, for no credit, to make a legal table, but he's already played the module, with the 7th-level pre-gen, and isn't eligible for credit.

Different GMs have different answers for that. But I personally feel that since the first time you played it you did not get your 1 allowed player credit, you can still get that 1 player credit when you play it with a PC again of legal Level.

The GM still has the authority to kick you out or lecture you if you spoil it.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/5

Chris Mortika wrote:

I have a follow-up question. It's a corner case I've never seen, but plausible.

Let's say Doug's highest-level character, Dango, is 6th Level, and the game store is hosting a high level (7th - 11th Level) scenario. Dango isn't eligible to play, so Doug takes a 7th-level Kyra pre-gen and plays through the scenario.

Doug earns no credit, no loot, and no faction prestige (since Kyra isn't a member of a faction.)

Two weeks later, Dango rises to 7th level. Can Doug now replay the scenario in question with Dango and receive credit?

My understanding is: no. He'd be allowed to re-play the scenario, for no credit, to make a legal table, but he's already played the module, with the 7th-level pre-gen, and isn't eligible for credit.

My understanding is that as he has not played it with his own character and gotten credit for it, then yes, he could get credit when he played it again with Dango. It certainly doesnt break the 1:1 rule.

The Exchange 2/5

• If you play you earn 1 credit that is applied to the
character that played through the scenario.

I think this should be re-written to something like this.

"The first time you play a scenario with a legal character you earn 1 chronicle that is applied to the character that played through the scenario. The first time you GM a scenario you earn 1 chronicle that is applied to a character that has not already received a chronicle for that scenario. You may not receive any additional chronicles for a scenario beyond these two options."

The tricky part is that no matter what is written people will try to nitpick it to death. Anyone who has been following the forums should have a full understanding of the 1:1 rule.

Just my 2cp.

3/5

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
K Neil Shackleton wrote:

I guess one of the things that I don't understand is why you interpret things that way with player credit, but not GM credit. The language is the same.

And please don't think that I am criticizing you. I think that the questions should be asked so the new players' guide can be as good as possible.

Because the first bullet point does not address GMing. It's the first bullet point which really throws things into confusion. I'll rewrite my version of it and post it somewhere. I'm guessing that a credit is a PFS Chronicle sheet.

A friend of mine replayed a scenario and did not get a sheet, but his characters # was taken down and logged in the database. So what happens with that?

Grand Lodge 3/5

Preston Poulter wrote:
A friend of mine replayed a scenario and did not get a sheet, but his characters # was taken down and logged in the database. So what happens with that?

That was the correct procedure. Scenarios still need to be reported for information purposes and for GM stars.

EDIT: and my point was that the wording of the 1st and 2nd bullets is very similar. So I was curious why the 2nd does not conflict with the 3rd for you.

3/5

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Shieldknight wrote:

• If you play you earn 1 credit that is applied to the

character that played through the scenario.

I think this should be re-written to something like this.

"The first time you play a scenario with a legal character you earn 1 chronicle that is applied to the character that played through the scenario. The first time you GM a scenario you earn 1 chronicle that is applied to a character that has not already received a chronicle for that scenario. You may not receive any additional chronicles for a scenario beyond these two options."

The tricky part is that no matter what is written people will try to nitpick it to death. Anyone who has been following the forums should have a full understanding of the 1:1 rule.

Just my 2cp.

Which might explain why there is such a divide. Neither myself, my wife, nor my friend follow this forum and we all came to the opposite conclusion of what the rule was meant to express.

3/5

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
K Neil Shackleton wrote:
Preston Poulter wrote:
A friend of mine replayed a scenario and did not get a sheet, but his characters # was taken down and logged in the database. So what happens with that?

That was the correct procedure. Scenarios still need to be reported for information purposes and for GM stars.

EDIT: and my point was that the wording of the 1st and 2nd bullets is very similar. So I was curious why the 2nd does not conflict with the 3rd for you.

As I said, bullet point 1 does not address GMing. It addresses playing and saying explicitly that you gain 1 credit for the character that played it. I don't understand why you think GMing should suffer similar misunderstanding.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

If anyone would care to better state the rule in a manner that precludes any miscommunication without using more than 400 words, I welcome the assistance. It will be taken into consideration when we refine the rules documentation again for version 4.0. Feel free to email me suggested text at mark.moreland@paizo.com.

3/5

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

OK, so here are some questions:

My friend will look under the "sessions" tab for his character and find a session that he played in but did not get credit for. He is worried that this will cause other GMs to audit his paperwork and find that his "papers are not in order" and that he might have deep sixed a PFS Chronicle sheet that reflected a poor session or something.

For that matter, if you are replaying a session with a character that is not for credit, can your character still die? That would change the whole risk/reward thing and seriously discourage people from replaying a scenario with anything but a pregen.

What exactly is the GM award? Is it 1 Prestige point and half treasure for an appropriate tier for the character you chose to award (that hasn't already played it)?

The Exchange 3/5

Mark Moreland wrote:
If anyone would care to better state the rule in a manner that precludes any miscommunication without using more than 400 words, I welcome the assistance. It will be taken into consideration when we refine the rules documentation again for version 4.0. Feel free to email me suggested text at mark.moreland@paizo.com.

Or hecks, add it to the Community Update and let's give it a thorough going over there first.

I'm a big believer in community review.

My 2 coppers.

-Pain

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/5

Preston Poulter wrote:

OK, so here are some questions:

My friend will look under the "sessions" tab for his character and find a session that he played in but did not get credit for. He is worried that this will cause other GMs to audit his paperwork and find that his "papers are not in order" and that he might have deep sixed a PFS Chronicle sheet that reflected a poor session or something.

Your chronicle sheets are your record of which mods you have played. An audit will simply check for gold spent appropriately, enough xp to be the level you are, not whether or not you played the mod.

Preston Poulter wrote:
For that matter, if you are replaying a session with a character that is not for credit, can your character still die? That would change the whole risk/reward thing and seriously discourage people from replaying a scenario with anything but a pregen.

Yes, you risk death if you replay for not credit, same with using up resources such as wands.

Preston Poulter wrote:
What exactly is the GM award? Is it 1 Prestige point and half treasure for an appropriate tier for the character you chose to award (that hasn't already played it)?

Bottom right of Page 29 of the PSGtoP

3/5

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So it seems like the GM should issue a PFS Chronicle sheet for a player who has replayed the scenario so that he can note consumables used if nothing else. It would be good to address this issue in terms of procedure.

If someone answers this procedural question for me, I'll post my version of what the rules should read.

4/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Society Subscriber

The wording seems fairly clear that you can play a mod after GMing it. However, the next section still claims that playing a mod after reading it is cheating. Which is it?

Grand Lodge 2/5

Preston Poulter wrote:

So it seems like the GM should issue a PFS Chronicle sheet for a player who has replayed the scenario so that he can note consumables used if nothing else. It would be good to address this issue in terms of procedure.

If someone answers this procedural question for me, I'll post my version of what the rules should read.

Oddly enough, you have to record the purchase of items and the sale of items, but not the use of items.

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