(Ok i could accept playing it as an halfling instead. But i think an gnome would be more optimal then the halfling. +2 CON beats +2 DEX if you ask me. Also the gnomish race is cooler then the halfling dito.)
I have my concept. What i would help with is comments from others if there is something iv forgotten in my build or some ideas on how to make the build better. Im not looking for the best healing cleric ever, i just want your help to improve my idea of an gnome cleric. I want him to be a good party supporter and healer. Better movement than 20 feet / round and a fairly high AC.
Im pretty damn sure i want him to use a shield.
Its a 25 point buy and i will start playing him from level 3
Ability score:
STR 10
DEX 13
CON 18
INT 10
WIS 16
CHA 12
Notes: Gnome have an penalty to STR so taking a high STR would be very expensive. Dex 13 so i can pick the feat dodge and gain +1 AC. CON 18 for the HP. INT is dump but i dont want to loose the skill point. Know. rel, heal and spellcraft feels necessary to have. Wis for obvious reasons. CHA for the extra channel.
Favored class Cleric, +1 skill point. I will put my 3 skill points each level in knowledge religion, spellcraft and heal.
Feats:
level 1: Selective channel, level 3: combat casting, level 5: tower shield prof, level 7: heavy armor pof. Level 9: dodge. Level 11: Extra channeling. Level 13: Extend spell level 15: Toughness. Level 17: some cool feat level 19: some other cool feat.
Domains: I really want travel domain, mainly cause it will give me +10 movement and that would compensate alot as i play gnome with heavy armor. Also the spell longstrider. Nice gods like Cayden, Desna and Abadar holds it. Dont know what other domain to combine it with. Perhaps good? protection? Luck?
Traits: No clue.
Gear: What to start with is not my strong side.
Dont know. Is there any information you need that i havent told?
Maxing wisdom isn't as important if you're not going to be throwing around offensive spells that require saves; most of your support and healing spells don't benefit from a high wisdom at all. On the other hand, charisma is a little more important if you're focusing on your healing.
Accordingly, I might recommend dropping the wisdom to 16 (or possibly even lower) and upping the charisma.
I suggest dwarf is optimal for cleric with travel and liberation domains in masterwork stone plate...
Movement reate 30 with longstrider boost up to 40 plus darkvision...
Click on Donagar and take a look!
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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The Travel domain only boosts your BASE speed, so 20 + 10 = 30. Then you've got heavy armor, so you're back to 20. You might be better off playing a dwarf, since heavy armor does not affect their base speed and they get a bonus to CON *AND* WIS, making them awesome clerics.
Still, if you're really married to this idea of a gnome... Liberation is a very good domain to have since it prevents you from getting snared/slowed/grappled for several rounds per day. That's really a good choice no matter what race you go with, though.
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If you are gona buy heavy armor prof and especialise in healing you should check a dip in the holy vindicator PrC from APG. Also from the same book there is a trait that gives you an extra +2 on concentration checks, its called focused mind.
Im not 100% sure but i believe you can not cast spells while using a tower shield because you need at least one free hand to do so. There was a thread around here on the forums about this topic not to long ago.
Gnomes work fine as a support cleric, but I'd give up on the heavy armor if you want to rely on evasion rather than being a rock of defense. Than of course tower shield proficiency is also unnecessary.
If you want mobility stick to lighter stuff and play a faster race such as human. Stats look fine but I'd switch your feats out as thus
1-3: Fine as you have them though with the emphasis on evasion over armor you might want scribe scroll over combat casting.
5: Extra Channeling
7: Dodge
9: Mobility
11:Spring Attack
13: Vital strike
15: Quicken Spell
17: Improved Vital Strike
Worship Desna with liberation and travel while wielding a longspear. The combat feats let you contribute meaningfully to combat once you've thrown out a few initial buffs while simultaneously allowing you to stay safely away from people.
If you want to be an armored tank rather than a lightweight sprite that stings hard than the posters above have already mentioned Dwarf and it's a suggestion I stand by. Gnomes for all their toughness are going to be too slow to meet your requirements. Above works fine for gnome. Below you definitely need to be dwarfy.
1-3: Again fine.
5: Heavy Armor Proficiency as at this point you should be able to afford full plate.
7:Quickdraw
9:Dodge
11: Mobility
13: Spring Attack
15: Vital Strike
17:Quicken Spell
As above except grab a shield and wield a waraxe. The trick to thsi build is you won't be casting with a weapon out which is something of a hazard with this build. Quickdraw helps alleviate this somewhat. A lack of strength will be problematic in either build but as I said once you get a couple of buffs up and running you'll be in good shape and with the spring attak/vital strike trick you'll be swinging at your highest bab anyway. You lose extra channeling but gain a lot of defense.
Maxing wisdom isn't as important if you're not going to be throwing around offensive spells that require saves; most of your support and healing spells don't benefit from a high wisdom at all. On the other hand, charisma is a little more important if you're focusing on your healing.
Accordingly, I might recommend dropping the wisdom to 16 (or possibly even lower) and upping the charisma.
Dont know what build you have read. This one has a wisdom score of 16. :P
If i need higher CHA then it seams more reasonable to lower my CON to 16.I suggest dwarf is optimal for cleric with travel and liberation domains in masterwork stone plate...
Movement reate 30 with longstrider boost up to 40 plus darkvision...
Click on Donagar and take a look!
I am pretty damn sure i will be playing a gnome or a halfling. I even have the miniature ready. Iv played to many dwarfs before to do it this time. For me it is as overly used as the half-dragon for many dnd veterans.
The Travel domain only boosts your BASE speed, so 20 + 10 = 30. Then you've got heavy armor, so you're back to 20. You might be better off playing a dwarf, since heavy armor does not affect their base speed and they get a bonus to CON *AND* WIS, making them awesome clerics.
Still, if you're really married to this idea of a gnome... Liberation is a very good domain to have since it prevents you from getting snared/slowed/grappled for several rounds per day. That's really a good choice no matter what race you go with, though.
Dont forget the spell longstrider that comes with the travel domain. That spell gives me another 10 feet. Also i dont need 60 feet of movement every turn. I just want to keep up with the others. :P Dont want to be a mile behind when they need healing.
And yes, im kind of married with the gnome (or halfling).
Desna is a very good choice for clerics. I really like the Exploration and Liberation domain powers.
Halfling and halforc characters have a great RP hook as possibly ex-slaves. The halforc racial ability Chain Fighter works great with this concept.
Desna is also a great option for gnomes. As a creative goddess of dreams, luck, chaos, and musicians, she's a natural choice for a gnome attempting to avoid the bleaching.
Yeah i really like Desna! Its the bleaching/slave concept i really like with gnomes and halflings.
If you are gona buy heavy armor prof and especialise in healing you should check a dip in the holy vindicator PrC from APG. Also from the same book there is a trait that gives you an extra +2 on concentration checks, its called focused mind.
Iv actually thought of the Holy Vindicator PrC. But is the needed channeling feats really worth it? When does an alignment channel or elemental channel come in handy?
Thanks for the trait tip. Its a keeper!
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Im not crazy in love with either alignment or elemental channel too but you gain heavy armor prof AND martial weapon prof with the PrC so i consider it a good trade of. What i dont like in the holy vindicator PrC is that you lose some spellcasting lvls if you go all the way with it.
But if you are going to focus on being a channeller on heavy armor with shield this PrC is great for you! I would also drop CON to 16 and up CHA to 14, but thats just my personal preference.
Essentially, do you want to be a superb caster or a superb channeller? Gnome is good for the second and somewhat poor for the first.
Well. I dont know. I want to be a good supporter for my group. Buffing and healing. So i gues - both?
After reading TarkXTs suggestion of builds iv decided that for me its more important with an high AC then being mobile. Altho, im not going to be a dwarf. That is so much 2002 for me. Gnome or halfling is "set in stone".
To be honest im not sure how holy symbol work? Do i need to hold it in my hand when using divine spells and channeling? Can the holy symbol be the shield och perhaps just hanging around my neck?
Kenderkin mention go mounted. Iv never witnessed the mounted rules in play. What feats would i need to be a good spellcaster on a mount? Is it worth it? Iv read the paladin guide about building a mounted halfling paladin and that one needs 3 feats. That wouldnt make me funktional until level 5, perhaps level 9 as i need some cleric feats aswell.
I also think Rorys idea sound interesting. Why not use tower shield with that one? Would the build be effective and able to survive before level 7 or 9?
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Ability score:
STR 10
DEX 13
CON 18
INT 10
WIS 16
CHA 12....
Favored class Cleric, +1 skill point. I will put my 3 skill points each level in knowledge religion, spellcraft and heal.
Just wanted to point something out to you, but if you want 3 skill ranks and +4 hit points per hit dice, you can just lower CON to 16 and raise INT to 12, put favored class bonus into hit points, and come out with 3 points to spare for point buy, which you can use to increase charisma. I'd do something like....
STR 10 (12-2)
DEX 13
CON 16 (14+2)
INT 12
WIS 16
CHA 15 (13+2)
FC into HP and you wind up with the same hit points and same number of skill ranks.
Ability score:
STR 10
DEX 13
CON 18
INT 10
WIS 16
CHA 12....
Favored class Cleric, +1 skill point. I will put my 3 skill points each level in knowledge religion, spellcraft and heal.
Just wanted to point something out to you, but if you want 3 skill ranks and +4 hit points per hit dice, you can just lower CON to 16 and raise INT to 12, put favored class bonus into hit points, and come out with 3 points to spare for point buy, which you can use to increase charisma. I'd do something like....
STR 10 (12-2)
DEX 13
CON 16 (14+2)
INT 12
WIS 16
CHA 15 (13+2)FC into HP and you wind up with the same hit points and same number of skill ranks.
Dude im such a dildo! Thank you for the tip. Of course i should do it this way. CON 16 wont give me any revolutionary worse FORT save either.
A tower shield inhibits the casting of spells that require a free hand. The same goes for a heavy shield actually.
Damn didnt know this. Is there any way to get around it? So i can hold weapon and shield.
Damn didnt know this. Is there any way to get around it? So i can hold weapon and shield.
A tower shield inhibits the casting of spells that require a free hand. The same goes for a heavy shield actually.
Nope.
I think what we need to do is figure out what you want to do offensively. You're not a walking talking buffbot and bandaid. Clerics are so much better than that. Do you want to say hello to people wiht arrows? Beat them with your stick of godly might? Spell at them until they fall down?
Once we have that figured out I think we can get a clearer picture of jsut what we can be doing.
Is there any way to get around it? So i can hold weapon and shield.Light Shields and Bucklers don't have that problem.
Ah forgot about that. My bad.
Damn didnt know this. Is there any way to get around it? So i can hold weapon and shield.
A tower shield inhibits the casting of spells that require a free hand. The same goes for a heavy shield actually.Nope.
I think what we need to do is figure out what you want to do offensively. You're not a walking talking buffbot and bandaid. Clerics are so much better than that. Do you want to say hello to people wiht arrows? Beat them with your stick of godly might? Spell at them until they fall down?
Once we have that figured out I think we can get a clearer picture of jsut what we can be doing.
Agreed. You are right on that point. Perhaps i am very unorthodox but i pick my miniature first then i figure out the build. I am going to use this bloodstone gnome from reaper as my miniature. Perhaps the image will help you/us?
I would like the build to represent the mini as much as possible. It would be very hard for me to roleplay the character if that miniature would represent someone using a bow or a dwarf.
The others in the group consist of a fighter with a two handed weapon, a sorcerer, a ranger with ranged focus and a rogue/wizard. I se my role as the supporter. The dude who could heal and buff the others. I think being able to tank fairly good would be nice. That way the fighter wont take al s$!# in battle.
Im open to play paladin, inquisitor or oracle instead if they would be a better healer and supporter then the cleric. Altho, i dont think they are.
I'm pretty sure that a gnomish life oracle is the best at healing and has similar access to good buff spells as a cleric, but I don't think he would look like your miniature.
Oh, and he would be less multiple ability dependent, so you could go with something like this
Str 10
Dex 13
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 18
Or if you were feeling particularly aggressive, I would recommend battle oracle with this stat array. A backup polearm or some fun weapons like the piston maul and the ripsaw glaive might make this character very enjoyable to play. The maneuver mastery revelations are awesome too, which would give you quite a bit of flexibility for combat options.
Str 14
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 16
That way you could be mildly effective in melee, which might suit your plans.
But I also think you should consider a battle oracle with just a touch of rage prophet. You can stick with the same stat block if you want, but the barbarian level gives you your movement bump, combination with the lame curse gets you no penalty raging at level 8. But that might not jive with your concept, just giving you some more options.
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I really like the rage prophet PrC, but its a complex build (like most gish builds). There is just one combination of oracle class abilitys where you dont end up subpar.
To OP, if you are not familiar with pathfinder's take on the cleric's channel energy ability you should look that up, they have revamped it and now its one of the most effective healing tools in the game (with the selective channeling feat).
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As suggested above, drop Con to 16, pump Int & Cha a bit, & you're good on stats.
Feats wise, Dodge, Shield Focus, Heavy Armor Proficiency will carry you through 5th level.
Wear a breastplate and tower shield until then, & don't worry about attacking anything. Your job will be to be a small iron block that enemies will beat on, allowing your allies to safely lay the smack down.
From 7th level on, consider getting a regular old warpony and ride your arrow-catcher into the fray. Getting your horse slaughtered should prove an interesting character trait, and with little effort you should be able to patch it up.
Don't worry about actual mounted combat, your horse/pony will be a ride into fights only.
For traits, I prefer things that add to your class skills, but those are totally up to you. Read through the Gnome racial traits for some gems.
As suggested above, drop Con to 16, pump Int & Cha a bit, & you're good on stats.
Feats wise, Dodge, Shield Focus, Heavy Armor Proficiency will carry you through 5th level.
Wear a breastplate and tower shield until then, & don't worry about attacking anything. Your job will be to be a small iron block that enemies will beat on, allowing your allies to safely lay the smack down.
From 7th level on, consider getting a regular old warpony and ride your arrow-catcher into the fray. Getting your horse slaughtered should prove an interesting character trait, and with little effort you should be able to patch it up.
Don't worry about actual mounted combat, your horse/pony will be a ride into fights only.
For traits, I prefer things that add to your class skills, but those are totally up to you. Read through the Gnome racial traits for some gems.
hm. Is that an idea for an battle cleric or a supporting cleric?
Something i need to have "cleared": As a supporting cleric will my buffs and support spells be done mainly before i go to battle or while i am in the fight with some kobolds*?
When is channel positive energy mainly used? During the battle or after? Maybe i would do alright converting spells to cure spells in battle to save another PCs life? If it is like that then i could skip selective channeling atleast the first levels. Instead combat casting would be even more important.
* or whatever encounter my gnome is currently biting at.
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Support, for sure.
Shield +heavy armor + defensive feats means you're tough to hurt, but Small size, low str & shield means you aren't a real threat in combat.
You move around the field casting Bless, Bane, Shield Other, & similar spells, while keeping enemies from charging and smooshing your Archer & Wizard.
Keep your team healthy from the thick of it (Reach Spell + Spontaneous Healing is very nice for this) via spells & channels. All around, you're a pain to deal with, but unless the enemies neutralize the big hitters first, they're going down fast.
Optimally, you won't be in direct mêlée too much, meaning Combat Casting becomes less valuable than Selective Channelling. Since the burst effect can heal enemies inadvertently, keeping the downed baddies down is very important.
After combat healing is usually best achieved via wands/scrolls, unless the whole party is down just a bit. In that case, channel's efficiency rises with every injured party healed.
OK, i really want to explore the options to make the best supporting character i can.
I mentioned earlier that i could play a halfling instead of gnome. Using the Dingo mini.
The halfling have a bonus to DEX so i thought about the feat dervish dance wich would totally erase the negative or low STR. Instead of Cleric i looked at Paladin that would take advantage to my CHA bonus even more. Perhaps this idea would be better with the Oracle.
In players advanced guide there is an Paladin alternative class called sacred servant. That variant would give me access to 1 domain from my god. It would also give me ALOT of channel energi.
As a domain i pick travel and gain 10 feet movement. Also i gain the spell longstrider that way. Healing domain could be another good investment.
I could have sats like: STR 6, DEX 20, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 8, CHA 16.
When gaining levels i would make my charisma higher and thus more channel.
With a DEX like that i dont need any armor that would slow me down. Yay!
Feats needed: Weapon finesse, dervish dance. At level 5 i could pick selective channeling and at level 7 i could pick dodge. This build would start with 19 AC at level 1. Fairly high right?
Questions: For dervish dance to work i can not hold a weapon or a shield in my off hand. Would a holy symbol count as a shield and/or weapon?
How could i make the AC higher, if i need it.
Later investment in spring attack is that a good idea?
Multiclasing with something?
Lastly: I admit my noob-ish experience in pathfinder. Would this make a worse supporter then the cleric? What would be its benefits?
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Support = generally assists other PC's via spells/skills/abilities.
Paladins CAN play that role, nut really excel at "Tank" duty: Survive close combat with all takers, & smoosh the baddies in return.
That being said, for the fast, durable, in-combat Gnome/Halfling, Paladin would indeed work well.
Str 6/Wis 8 is asking for trouble, in my opinion. Its viable, but a lot of things will be capable of dropping you fast.
Chain Shirt + Dodge + Dex + Deflection (from smite) yields AC 20+Charisma vs one target.
You will be sacrificing some maximum AC by not using a shield/heavy armor, but Dodge+Mobility+Spring Attack is viable with your speed. Not sure on the archetype changes to Paladin, but my gnome pally managed Legacy of Fire quite well with the vanilla class. He did use heavy armor & a shield, so that might have had something to do with it.
Holy symbols are not weapons / shields, so you're good there.
AC will come as you get Amulet of Natural Armor, armor enchantment, and Rings of Protection.
Lots of folks will tell you spring attack is not worth it, but with smite, dex to damage, and another couple of damage dealers, I think it's decent in this case.
Finally, don't forget to grab a ranged weapon. Longbow (NOT composite) will allow you to capitalize on full BAB, high dex, and size bonus to hit, all while staying back to help protect the squishy caster/archer.
The more I think on it, Paladin seems the way to go.
Well with that alternative paladin class my PC will get less smite evil. Instead of getting his second smite evil at level 4 he will gain it by level 7. What i know, there is no feat to give me more smite evil / day. But i will be mobile instead and i will be much better at healing others
Here you can read about sacred servant.
When looking at the paladin and the cleric now, then the paladin seams like a better choice for me. Especially if i want to be a small creature supporting. I dont think Oracle is a better choice as it wont have channel energy.
Multiclassing with something else? Is that an option for me?
I just wanted to put this right:
"Slow and Steady: Dwarves have a base speed of 20 feet, but their speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance."
Dwarves can be cheesed movement-wise if you get movement benefits from various places.
The Life Oracle can get Channeling via their Revelations. I agree with the poster somewhere above that Life Oracle is probably the best healer available.
Of course, Dwarf + Oracle is no good what with the -2 CHA racial.
When looking at the paladin and the cleric now, then the paladin seams like a better choice for me. Especially if i want to be a small creature supporting.Cleric will be much better at being a support character than a paladin, hands down.
A paladin is meant to be on the front line and has more innate offense. With a 6 STR paladin, you wouldn't have weapon offense or spell offense/support, which would be a terrible combo.
A cleric can be on the front line also, but has more innate support/healing.
Life Mystery is the oracle you would want to be a stellar "healing" support character. All oracles can be support characters tho. Battle Mystery oracles makes for a good melee divine caster.
I beg to differ. If Battle is the thing and you want an Oracle, then Lore is the better choice.
Here you find the Sidestep Revelation, that moves your AC ability score to CHA. You can now dump DEX.
If you multiclass, with focus on your melee and not in hops of targeting enemies with spells, taking 2 levels of Paladin allows you to add your CHA to all your saves, fixing the "hole" you caused by dumping DEX.
You can now also dump CON and WIS.
That is 3 levels spent so far. You can now pick whatever CHA / STR based class you want to progress in.
You could grab a Sorc. level and then 4 levels of Dragon Disciple, this gives you 4 points of STR which yields a net +2 damage as well as even more utility and access to Claw/Claw/Bite + Normal melee - But then you are also committed to not wearing armor if you want to use those spells.
As your powers are driven by CHA, this should be possible anyway. You can even blow your Sorc spells doing Mage Armor as needed if nothing else.
But... this diverges from your concept quite a bit.
(Ok i could accept playing it as an halfling instead. But i think an gnome would be more optimal then the halfling. +2 CON beats +2 DEX if you ask me. Also the gnomish race is cooler then the halfling dito.)
I have my concept. What i would help with is comments from others if there is something iv forgotten in my build or some ideas on how to make the build better. Im not looking for the best healing cleric ever, i just want your help to improve my idea of an gnome cleric. I want him to be a good party supporter and healer. Better movement than 20 feet / round and a fairly high AC.
Im pretty damn sure i want him to use a shield.
Its a 25 point buy and i will start playing him from level 3
Ability score:
STR 10
DEX 13
CON 18
INT 10
WIS 16
CHA 12Notes: Gnome have an penalty to STR so taking a high STR would be very expensive. Dex 13 so i can pick the feat dodge and gain +1 AC. CON 18 for the HP. INT is dump but i dont want to loose the skill point. Know. rel, heal and spellcraft feels necessary to have. Wis for obvious reasons. CHA for the extra channel.
Favored class Cleric, +1 skill point. I will put my 3 skill points each level in knowledge religion, spellcraft and heal.
Feats:
level 1: Selective channel, level 3: combat casting, level 5: tower shield prof, level 7: heavy armor pof. Level 9: dodge. Level 11: Extra channeling. Level 13: Extend spell level 15: Toughness. Level 17: some cool feat level 19: some other cool feat.Domains: I really want travel domain, mainly cause it will give me +10 movement and that would compensate alot as i play gnome with heavy armor. Also the spell longstrider. Nice gods like Cayden, Desna and Abadar holds it. Dont know what other domain to combine it with. Perhaps good? protection? Luck?
Traits: No clue.
Gear: What to start with is not my strong side.
Dont know. Is there any information you need that i havent told?
It may not fit your concept, but oracle of lore witha gnome is incredible, use your cha for your ac and reflex saves instead of dex and you can heal well and have skillpoints as an oracle.. either that or dip it for a level then go into cleric :)
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Well with that alternative paladin class my PC will get less smite evil. Instead of getting his second smite evil at level 4 he will gain it by level 7. What i know, there is no feat to give me more smite evil / day. But i will be mobile instead and i will be much better at healing others
Here you can read about sacred servant.
When looking at the paladin and the cleric now, then the paladin seams like a better choice for me. Especially if i want to be a small creature supporting. I dont think Oracle is a better choice as it wont have channel energy.
Multiclassing with something else? Is that an option for me?
Ok...Gnome Sacred Servant Paladin 3 (25 pt buy)
Init +3, Senses: low-light vision, Perception +1
Languages: Common, Gnome, one more you pick
Aura: Good (Minor); Courage 10' (+4 Morale vs. Fear to allies)
Defense
AC 20, Touch 14, Flat-footed 16 (Armor +6, Dex +3, Size +1)
HP 31 (3d10+9)
Fort: +8, Ref: +7, Will: +7
Immune: Fear, Disease
Offense:
Scimitar +7 (1d4+3 18-20/x2)
Longbow +7 (1d6 20/x3)
Lance (charging) +4 (2d6-4 20/x3)
BAB 3, CMB 0, CMD 13
Statistics:
Str 6, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 17
SQ: Gnome Traits, Aura of Good, Divine Grace, Divine Health
SA: Smite Evil 1/day, Lay on Hands 4/day, Mercy (Fatigued)
Traits: pick what you like here
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Dervish Dance
Skills: Perform(Dance) +5, 7 more skill ranks available
Gear: Scimitar, Longbow, 10 arrows, breastplate, heavy steel shield, lance.
Carrying Capacity: Light 15 lbs, Medium 30 lbs, Heavy 45 lbs
For gear, you have 3000 gp to toss around.
Notes:
Your weakest point here is your Carrying Capacity. As a Small creature with a 6 Str, you are not going to be toting around armor and gear like a paladin usually would. Also, if you take Str damage, you will be going down for the count right quick. That being said, there are ways around that issue. Dervish Dance, as you already know, helps with your melee skills, and Piranha Strike serves you in place of Power Attack for damage increase. Muleback Cords & the Ant Haul spell will enable you to up your carrying capacity significantly, as will a Masterwork Backpack.
Lance is included (as is heavy steel shield) because, well, sometimes you just have to be mounted & charging, and a lance is the best possible weapon for that. If you're doing that (or if you're just say, approaching an entrenched enemy position), use your shield until the time comes for scimitar chopping, then drop/sling it and go to town like the Tasmanian Devil.
Now, if I were playing this character, I'd probably switch around Strength, Dex, and drop both Int & Wis to 10.
Str 14, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 17 is still 25 pt buy, and frees up 2 feats (since you don't need Weapon Finesse>Dervish Dance anymore), nets you similar HP, Skills, and allows for a much greater flexibility in combat. (Composite Longbow > Longbow, for example. Lance w/ Str bonus rather than penalty for another.)
Nothing prevents you from taking, say, Dodge & Mobility at 3rd level, allowsing for a pretty high AC (Breastplate 6 + Shield 2 + Dex 1 + Size 1 + Dodge 1 = 21) which will only increase as you progress in levels. Armor enchantment & shield enchantment is amongst the easiest & cheapest way to increase physical AC.
With this character, you'll have excellent survivability, good melee combat, decent ranged combat, immunity to practically everything that matters by mid level, decent spellcasting, and "free" auras that support & assist your allies without taking actions in combat.
Like I said, I played a similarly built Gnome Paladin all through Legacy of Fire, as the primary Tank of the group, and had an absolute blast. The only stinky part was having a slightly slow speed, but that's what mounts (and Domain Powers + Spells) are for, no?
When looking at the paladin and the cleric now, then the paladin seams like a better choice for me. Especially if i want to be a small creature supporting.Cleric will be much better at being a support character than a paladin, hands down.
A paladin is meant to be on the front line and has more innate offense. With a 6 STR paladin, you wouldn't have weapon offense or spell offense/support, which would be a terrible combo.
A cleric can be on the front line also, but has more innate support/healing.
Life Mystery is the oracle you would want to be a stellar "healing" support character. All oracles can be support characters tho. Battle Mystery oracles makes for a good melee divine caster.
If i have dervish dance, when would i need STR rolls?
If your DM allows Dervish Dance, you may not need STR for damage. However, there are many enemies and poisons that will affect your Strength to the point of being immobilized in any armor you are wearing. As a Paladin, your saves might stave that off to a certain extent, but it's not the best weakness to have, especially with Small size shrinking your carrying capacity.
Dervish Dance is also highly dependent on the weapon type you are wielding, if I understand it correctly- as well as the fact that you can't be holding a weapon or shield in your off-hand. Any change to this (being disarmed, sundered, robbed of your gear, not finding a better weapon for several levels) can become a serious liability you need to plan for.
It's not that it isn't doable, it just requires more effort than a more traditional route.
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If i have dervish dance, when would i need STR rolls?Dervish Dance doesn't work with your shield (right?)
I don't have the feat to peruse, and I'm not even sure from where it comes, so I can't answer your question completely.
Dervish Dance (Combat)
You have learned to turn your speed into power, even with a heavier blade.Prerequisites: Dexterity 13, Weapon Finesse, Perform (dance) 2 ranks, proficient with scimitar.
Benefit: When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls. You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability). The scimitar must be for a creature of your size. You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.
Now, if I were playing this character, I'd probably switch around Strength, Dex, and drop both Int & Wis to 10.
Str 14, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 17 is still 25 pt buy, and frees up 2 feats (since you don't need Weapon Finesse>Dervish Dance anymore), nets you similar HP, Skills, and allows for a much greater flexibility in combat. (Composite Longbow > Longbow, for example. Lance w/ Str bonus rather than penalty for another.)
Nothing prevents you from taking, say, Dodge & Mobility at 3rd level, allowsing for a pretty high AC (Breastplate 6 + Shield 2 + Dex 1 + Size 1 + Dodge 1 = 21) which will only increase as you progress in levels. Armor enchantment & shield enchantment is amongst the easiest & cheapest way to increase physical AC.
With this character, you'll have excellent survivability, good melee combat, decent ranged combat, immunity to practically everything that matters by mid level, decent spellcasting, and "free" auras that support & assist your allies without taking actions in combat.
Like I said, I played a similarly built Gnome Paladin all through Legacy of Fire, as the primary Tank of the group, and had an absolute blast. The only stinky part was having a slightly slow speed, but that's what mounts (and Domain Powers + Spells) are for, no?
Dont know how i missed this. Im pretty knew with Pathfinder and honestly i never played spell caster before.
Is it possible to cast spells if you have a weapon and shield in your hands? I thought you needed a free hand?
Also why use a breastplate? It would give me a 6 AC. As a paladin i could use full plate for 9 AC and they would slow me down equally much. And lastly, why use heavy shield and take mobility as a feat instead of taking tower shield prof. Then i would end up with hmm: Full plate 9 + tower shield 4 + Dex 1 + Size 1 + Dodge 1 = 26 AC. Thats a bad ass tank.
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For the 14 str gnome, full plate all the way.
It is 1650 gp, though, more than half your gp complement for level 3.
Breastplate is slightly less AC, but like 300gp (both masterwork, cuz otherwise why bother), allowing for much more diverse wealth spread.
Tower shield nets +2 AC over heavy shield, but imposes -2 to hit & ridiculous ACP, not to mention weighing a ton.
If you really want AC, the more low-cost, stackable bonuses you can get, the better.
Compare tower shield proficiency + tower shield (1 feat, 4ac, -2 to hit) to Shield Focus + heavy steel shield (3ac, 1 feat, no to-hit penalty)
If you expect lots & lots of archers, get the tower shield, skip proficiency, and just use your tabletop-shield for total cover while you approach the enemy.
Dodge, shield focus, missile shield, & ray shield will let you be very very tough to hit with ranged attacks, and that AC will only grow as you level and improve your gear.
Honestly, Paladin seems a perfect fit for this PC. He gets strong attacks, near-total immunity to "I lose" conditions eventually, and can heal/buff himself and others quite well.
Finally, Dangerously Curious + high Cha + UMD lets you pull double duty with wands, scrolls, and the like. Plus, it's so perfectly gnomish it hurts.
For the 14 str gnome, full plate all the way.
It is 1650 gp, though, more than half your gp complement for level 3.
Breastplate is slightly less AC, but like 300gp (both masterwork, cuz otherwise why bother), allowing for much more diverse wealth spread.
Tower shield nets +2 AC over heavy shield, but imposes -2 to hit & ridiculous ACP, not to mention weighing a ton.
If you really want AC, the more low-cost, stackable bonuses you can get, the better.
Compare tower shield proficiency + tower shield (1 feat, 4ac, -2 to hit) to Shield Focus + heavy steel shield (3ac, 1 feat, no to-hit penalty)
If you expect lots & lots of archers, get the tower shield, skip proficiency, and just use your tabletop-shield for total cover while you approach the enemy.
Dodge, shield focus, missile shield, & ray shield will let you be very very tough to hit with ranged attacks, and that AC will only grow as you level and improve your gear.
Honestly, Paladin seems a perfect fit for this PC. He gets strong attacks, near-total immunity to "I lose" conditions eventually, and can heal/buff himself and others quite well.
Finally, Dangerously Curious + high Cha + UMD lets you pull double duty with wands, scrolls, and the like. Plus, it's so perfectly gnomish it hurts.
I agree that this looks like the best choice for me. Especially since i will be able to combine supporting with tanking.
But, why would this be a better choice then say Oracle or Cleric?
I just want to look at my alternatives. Thank you for al the help it has been really helpful.
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Cleric = mostly spellcasting, combat becomes a secondary role. Channel Energy is fantastic, but if you don't concentrate on it its "merely" an out of combat/RP time healing trick.
3/4 BAB means you really shouldn't be the primary Warrior Type, but can fill in in a pinch.
Oracle has the same setup, but you get around the combat role with proper mystery (battle/lore/bones). Tradeoff is delayed spell acquisition & "curse". Plus unless taking battle mystery (or using feats) you'll never approach the defensive capabilities of a Paladin.
Pally trades spells for combat effectiveness & "you can't hurt me withthat" abilities. Swift Lay on Hands is truly fantastic, as is divine bond. Spells, in this case, become sweeteners, rather than the core of your class.
So, for AC, general defensive ability, and combat support, Paladin seems the way to go. Travel domain gets you your desired speed, and all the rest just kinda falls into place.
Plus, Gnome Paladin FTW! (Not to mention, that mini is using heavy armor by the look of it, so why bother blowing a feat on it?)
Plus, Gnome Paladin FTW! (Not to mention, that mini is using heavy armor by the look of it, so why bother blowing a feat on it?)
Bwahahaha. Best argument ever. How can i play anything else then a gnome paladin of someone with a travel domain after iv read that?
1. How does holy symbol work? Is it just flavour-gish. Can i tell the DM my sock or a trinket in my pocket is the holy symbol? Or would using of the holy symbol affect me? For example can i still hold the shield and sword/mace/axe and use the holy symbol at the same time?
At 5th level, instead of forming a divine bond with her weapon or a mount, a sacred servant forms a bond with her holy symbol. As a standard action, a sacred servant can bind a celestial spirit to her holy symbol for 1 minute per paladin level. When called, the spirit causes the sacred servant’s holy symbol to shed light like a torch. At 5th level, the spirit grants one bonus. For every three levels beyond 5th, the spirit grants one additional bonus. These bonuses can be spent in a number of ways to grant the paladin enhanced abilities to channel positive energy and to cast spells. Each bonus can be used to grant one of the following enhancements: +1 caster level to any paladin spell cast, +1 to the DC to halve the damage of channel positive energy when used to harm undead, +1d6 to channel positive energy, +1 use/day of lay on hands. These enhancements stack and can be selected multiple times. The enhancements granted by the spirit are determined when the spirit is called and cannot be changed until the spirit is called again. If the sacred servant increases her number of uses of lay on hands per day in this way, that choice is set for the rest of the day, and once used, these additional uses are not restored (even if the spirit is called again that day). The celestial spirit imparts no enhancements if the holy symbol is held by anyone other than the sacred servant, but resumes giving enhancements if returned to the sacred servant. A sacred servant can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every four levels beyond 5th, to a total of four times per day at 17th level.
If a holy symbol with a celestial spirit is destroyed, the sacred servant loses the use of this ability for 30 days, or until she gains a level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the sacred servant takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.
2. Sacred servant is the only Paladin alternative that grants me a domain. I see it as most needed or else il have a movement of 15 feet. Is there another way of granting me more movement?
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If I were your GM, I would require manipulation of the symbol to trigger the Divine Bond, but not to enjoy its benefit. Basically, you take the action to rub the rosary, say a word or two, and get on with the fightin'. Having it visibly displayed would work. Quick Draw or the special shields that allow faster sling/ready times really shine in just such situations.
Spellcasting from your Paladin will most likely not be happening very often in combat. Channels don't require free hands, nor does Lay on Hands, & those will be likely to be used than anything besides sword swinging.
Movement options:
Buy a horse/pony. Who cares if it gets nommed on, it cost next to nothing. Bonus: lance + smite = yummy.
Boots of springing & striding. 5500 for +10' speed.
Boots of speed. 12000 for 10rds of Haste/day.
Wings of flying. 55000 for fly 60' all the time.
Carpet of flying. 20000? (Maybe 10000) for fly 40' & hovering. (This is what my Paladin used)
Haste spells, fly spells, and wands of expeditious retreat make for good, if short lived solutions.