Ignore Heavy Armor Prof. If you want it, burn a feat on it. But you are already moving slowly.
1. Dwarfs move 20 feet. They move 20 feet naked and they move 20 feet wearing heavy armor. Its a racial trait.
2. Thats what travel domain is for. Gives me +10 movement.
Taking a shield is possible and a good idea iv thought of. But then i need to pick the quick draw feat. Or else it would be hard for me to cast divine spells in combat. I also think it is a bad idea to make a cleric with high DEX. It will just make him more MAD. STR, CON and WIS is the abilities i find important.
Why on earth are you taking selective channeling as a battle cleric? To spend an action healing yourself that could have been spent outright murdering the dude in front of you?
I assumed he was channeling negative since Abadar, (and assumably his dwarf) are neutral. Selective Channeling is a must for a negative channeler. Negative channeling is also a decent choice for a battle cleric.
No positive. Thought it would be handy if i could heal my friends when i am in combat. If anyone f%@$ up.
Selective channeling is a must imo. I have made more battle clerics than any other class in dnd. I reccomend 1 or even 2 levels of fighter, take 1 at lvl2 and the other around lvl12/13. I'd drop the INT down to 8, and the dex down a little as well, although both are personal preferences. Whatever you do, don't let anyone tell you a battle cleric is sub-par, they are fantastic, pick the right buffs and you'll be crushing like a fighter while being able to heal yourself, acting as a self-sufficient tank if you will. If your set on the 13 dex think about 3 fighter lvls to gain access to the first tier of armor training.
EDIT: the Maul(1d10, 19-20/x3) or the Lucerne Hammer(dont remember specifics, but it has reach)
A favored "tanking" tactic of mine is to use reach weapons, with combat expertise, and stand still, etc. this allows you to crowd control effectively
Thinking about dropping INT but then i need to spare a skillpoint from Heal or Know. rel. DEX 13 is for the feat dodge. Perhaps it is overrated?
Where can i find the maul? Havent seen it in any book. We only use Pathfinder material. Core, APG, etc.
New character will be a dwarf and a battle cleric. We really need a tank-ish and healing powers.
Im thinking about taking one fighter level to gain access to heavy armor and martial weapons. Power attack and weapon focus seams like good feats to take. Is selective channeling worth it?
25 point buy.
STR 16, DEX 13, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 15, CHA 13.
Also i really like the idea of holding a hammer. If possible two handed.
Plus, Gnome Paladin FTW! (Not to mention, that mini is using heavy armor by the look of it, so why bother blowing a feat on it?)
Bwahahaha. Best argument ever. How can i play anything else then a gnome paladin of someone with a travel domain after iv read that?
1. How does holy symbol work? Is it just flavour-gish. Can i tell the DM my sock or a trinket in my pocket is the holy symbol? Or would using of the holy symbol affect me? For example can i still hold the shield and sword/mace/axe and use the holy symbol at the same time?
Divine bond:
Divine Bond (Su)
At 5th level, instead of forming a divine bond with her weapon or a mount, a sacred servant forms a bond with her holy symbol. As a standard action, a sacred servant can bind a celestial spirit to her holy symbol for 1 minute per paladin level. When called, the spirit causes the sacred servant’s holy symbol to shed light like a torch. At 5th level, the spirit grants one bonus. For every three levels beyond 5th, the spirit grants one additional bonus. These bonuses can be spent in a number of ways to grant the paladin enhanced abilities to channel positive energy and to cast spells. Each bonus can be used to grant one of the following enhancements: +1 caster level to any paladin spell cast, +1 to the DC to halve the damage of channel positive energy when used to harm undead, +1d6 to channel positive energy, +1 use/day of lay on hands. These enhancements stack and can be selected multiple times. The enhancements granted by the spirit are determined when the spirit is called and cannot be changed until the spirit is called again. If the sacred servant increases her number of uses of lay on hands per day in this way, that choice is set for the rest of the day, and once used, these additional uses are not restored (even if the spirit is called again that day). The celestial spirit imparts no enhancements if the holy symbol is held by anyone other than the sacred servant, but resumes giving enhancements if returned to the sacred servant. A sacred servant can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every four levels beyond 5th, to a total of four times per day at 17th level.
If a holy symbol with a celestial spirit is destroyed, the sacred servant loses the use of this ability for 30 days, or until she gains a level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the sacred servant takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.
2. Sacred servant is the only Paladin alternative that grants me a domain. I see it as most needed or else il have a movement of 15 feet. Is there another way of granting me more movement?
It is 1650 gp, though, more than half your gp complement for level 3.
Breastplate is slightly less AC, but like 300gp (both masterwork, cuz otherwise why bother), allowing for much more diverse wealth spread.
Tower shield nets +2 AC over heavy shield, but imposes -2 to hit & ridiculous ACP, not to mention weighing a ton.
If you really want AC, the more low-cost, stackable bonuses you can get, the better.
Compare tower shield proficiency + tower shield (1 feat, 4ac, -2 to hit) to Shield Focus + heavy steel shield (3ac, 1 feat, no to-hit penalty)
If you expect lots & lots of archers, get the tower shield, skip proficiency, and just use your tabletop-shield for total cover while you approach the enemy.
Dodge, shield focus, missile shield, & ray shield will let you be very very tough to hit with ranged attacks, and that AC will only grow as you level and improve your gear.
Honestly, Paladin seems a perfect fit for this PC. He gets strong attacks, near-total immunity to "I lose" conditions eventually, and can heal/buff himself and others quite well.
Finally, Dangerously Curious + high Cha + UMD lets you pull double duty with wands, scrolls, and the like. Plus, it's so perfectly gnomish it hurts.
I agree that this looks like the best choice for me. Especially since i will be able to combine supporting with tanking.
But, why would this be a better choice then say Oracle or Cleric?
I just want to look at my alternatives. Thank you for al the help it has been really helpful.
Now, if I were playing this character, I'd probably switch around Strength, Dex, and drop both Int & Wis to 10.
Str 14, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 17 is still 25 pt buy, and frees up 2 feats (since you don't need Weapon Finesse>Dervish Dance anymore), nets you similar HP, Skills, and allows for a much greater flexibility in combat. (Composite Longbow > Longbow, for example. Lance w/ Str bonus rather than penalty for another.)
Nothing prevents you from taking, say, Dodge & Mobility at 3rd level, allowsing for a pretty high AC (Breastplate 6 + Shield 2 + Dex 1 + Size 1 + Dodge 1 = 21) which will only increase as you progress in levels. Armor enchantment & shield enchantment is amongst the easiest & cheapest way to increase physical AC.
With this character, you'll have excellent survivability, good melee combat, decent ranged combat, immunity to practically everything that matters by mid level, decent spellcasting, and "free" auras that support & assist your allies without taking actions in combat.
Like I said, I played a similarly built Gnome Paladin all through Legacy of Fire, as the primary Tank of the group, and had an absolute blast. The only stinky part was having a slightly slow speed, but that's what mounts (and Domain Powers + Spells) are for, no?
Dont know how i missed this. Im pretty knew with Pathfinder and honestly i never played spell caster before.
Is it possible to cast spells if you have a weapon and shield in your hands? I thought you needed a free hand?
Also why use a breastplate? It would give me a 6 AC. As a paladin i could use full plate for 9 AC and they would slow me down equally much. And lastly, why use heavy shield and take mobility as a feat instead of taking tower shield prof. Then i would end up with hmm: Full plate 9 + tower shield 4 + Dex 1 + Size 1 + Dodge 1 = 26 AC. Thats a bad ass tank.
When looking at the paladin and the cleric now, then the paladin seams like a better choice for me. Especially if i want to be a small creature supporting.
Cleric will be much better at being a support character than a paladin, hands down.
A paladin is meant to be on the front line and has more innate offense. With a 6 STR paladin, you wouldn't have weapon offense or spell offense/support, which would be a terrible combo.
A cleric can be on the front line also, but has more innate support/healing.
Life Mystery is the oracle you would want to be a stellar "healing" support character. All oracles can be support characters tho. Battle Mystery oracles makes for a good melee divine caster.
If i have dervish dance, when would i need STR rolls?
Well with that alternative paladin class my PC will get less smite evil. Instead of getting his second smite evil at level 4 he will gain it by level 7. What i know, there is no feat to give me more smite evil / day. But i will be mobile instead and i will be much better at healing others
When looking at the paladin and the cleric now, then the paladin seams like a better choice for me. Especially if i want to be a small creature supporting. I dont think Oracle is a better choice as it wont have channel energy.
Multiclassing with something else? Is that an option for me?
OK, i really want to explore the options to make the best supporting character i can.
I mentioned earlier that i could play a halfling instead of gnome. Using the Dingo mini.
The halfling have a bonus to DEX so i thought about the feat dervish dance wich would totally erase the negative or low STR. Instead of Cleric i looked at Paladin that would take advantage to my CHA bonus even more. Perhaps this idea would be better with the Oracle.
In players advanced guide there is an Paladin alternative class called sacred servant. That variant would give me access to 1 domain from my god. It would also give me ALOT of channel energi.
As a domain i pick travel and gain 10 feet movement. Also i gain the spell longstrider that way. Healing domain could be another good investment.
I could have sats like: STR 6, DEX 20, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 8, CHA 16.
When gaining levels i would make my charisma higher and thus more channel.
With a DEX like that i dont need any armor that would slow me down. Yay!
Feats needed: Weapon finesse, dervish dance. At level 5 i could pick selective channeling and at level 7 i could pick dodge. This build would start with 19 AC at level 1. Fairly high right?
Questions: For dervish dance to work i can not hold a weapon or a shield in my off hand. Would a holy symbol count as a shield and/or weapon?
How could i make the AC higher, if i need it.
Later investment in spring attack is that a good idea?
Multiclasing with something?
Lastly: I admit my noob-ish experience in pathfinder. Would this make a worse supporter then the cleric? What would be its benefits?
As suggested above, drop Con to 16, pump Int & Cha a bit, & you're good on stats.
Feats wise, Dodge, Shield Focus, Heavy Armor Proficiency will carry you through 5th level.
Wear a breastplate and tower shield until then, & don't worry about attacking anything. Your job will be to be a small iron block that enemies will beat on, allowing your allies to safely lay the smack down.
From 7th level on, consider getting a regular old warpony and ride your arrow-catcher into the fray. Getting your horse slaughtered should prove an interesting character trait, and with little effort you should be able to patch it up.
Don't worry about actual mounted combat, your horse/pony will be a ride into fights only.
For traits, I prefer things that add to your class skills, but those are totally up to you. Read through the Gnome racial traits for some gems.
hm. Is that an idea for an battle cleric or a supporting cleric?
Something i need to have "cleared": As a supporting cleric will my buffs and support spells be done mainly before i go to battle or while i am in the fight with some kobolds*?
When is channel positive energy mainly used? During the battle or after? Maybe i would do alright converting spells to cure spells in battle to save another PCs life? If it is like that then i could skip selective channeling atleast the first levels. Instead combat casting would be even more important.
* or whatever encounter my gnome is currently biting at.
A tower shield inhibits the casting of spells that require a free hand. The same goes for a heavy shield actually.
Damn didnt know this. Is there any way to get around it? So i can hold weapon and shield.
Nope.
I think what we need to do is figure out what you want to do offensively. You're not a walking talking buffbot and bandaid. Clerics are so much better than that. Do you want to say hello to people wiht arrows? Beat them with your stick of godly might? Spell at them until they fall down?
Once we have that figured out I think we can get a clearer picture of jsut what we can be doing.
Agreed. You are right on that point. Perhaps i am very unorthodox but i pick my miniature first then i figure out the build. I am going to use this bloodstone gnome from reaper as my miniature. Perhaps the image will help you/us?
I would like the build to represent the mini as much as possible. It would be very hard for me to roleplay the character if that miniature would represent someone using a bow or a dwarf.
The others in the group consist of a fighter with a two handed weapon, a sorcerer, a ranger with ranged focus and a rogue/wizard. I se my role as the supporter. The dude who could heal and buff the others. I think being able to tank fairly good would be nice. That way the fighter wont take al s$@~ in battle.
Im open to play paladin, inquisitor or oracle instead if they would be a better healer and supporter then the cleric. Altho, i dont think they are.
Favored class Cleric, +1 skill point. I will put my 3 skill points each level in knowledge religion, spellcraft and heal.
Just wanted to point something out to you, but if you want 3 skill ranks and +4 hit points per hit dice, you can just lower CON to 16 and raise INT to 12, put favored class bonus into hit points, and come out with 3 points to spare for point buy, which you can use to increase charisma. I'd do something like....
STR 10 (12-2)
DEX 13
CON 16 (14+2)
INT 12
WIS 16
CHA 15 (13+2)
FC into HP and you wind up with the same hit points and same number of skill ranks.
Dude im such a dildo! Thank you for the tip. Of course i should do it this way. CON 16 wont give me any revolutionary worse FORT save either.
Essentially, do you want to be a superb caster or a superb channeller? Gnome is good for the second and somewhat poor for the first.
Well. I dont know. I want to be a good supporter for my group. Buffing and healing. So i gues - both?
After reading TarkXTs suggestion of builds iv decided that for me its more important with an high AC then being mobile. Altho, im not going to be a dwarf. That is so much 2002 for me. Gnome or halfling is "set in stone".
To be honest im not sure how holy symbol work? Do i need to hold it in my hand when using divine spells and channeling? Can the holy symbol be the shield och perhaps just hanging around my neck?
Kenderkin mention go mounted. Iv never witnessed the mounted rules in play. What feats would i need to be a good spellcaster on a mount? Is it worth it? Iv read the paladin guide about building a mounted halfling paladin and that one needs 3 feats. That wouldnt make me funktional until level 5, perhaps level 9 as i need some cleric feats aswell.
I also think Rorys idea sound interesting. Why not use tower shield with that one? Would the build be effective and able to survive before level 7 or 9?
Maxing wisdom isn't as important if you're not going to be throwing around offensive spells that require saves; most of your support and healing spells don't benefit from a high wisdom at all. On the other hand, charisma is a little more important if you're focusing on your healing.
Accordingly, I might recommend dropping the wisdom to 16 (or possibly even lower) and upping the charisma.
Dont know what build you have read. This one has a wisdom score of 16. :P
If i need higher CHA then it seams more reasonable to lower my CON to 16.
Donagar wrote:
I suggest dwarf is optimal for cleric with travel and liberation domains in masterwork stone plate...
Movement reate 30 with longstrider boost up to 40 plus darkvision...
Click on Donagar and take a look!
I am pretty damn sure i will be playing a gnome or a halfling. I even have the miniature ready. Iv played to many dwarfs before to do it this time. For me it is as overly used as the half-dragon for many dnd veterans.
Fatespinner wrote:
The Travel domain only boosts your BASE speed, so 20 + 10 = 30. Then you've got heavy armor, so you're back to 20. You might be better off playing a dwarf, since heavy armor does not affect their base speed and they get a bonus to CON *AND* WIS, making them awesome clerics.
Still, if you're really married to this idea of a gnome... Liberation is a very good domain to have since it prevents you from getting snared/slowed/grappled for several rounds per day. That's really a good choice no matter what race you go with, though.
Dont forget the spell longstrider that comes with the travel domain. That spell gives me another 10 feet. Also i dont need 60 feet of movement every turn. I just want to keep up with the others. :P Dont want to be a mile behind when they need healing.
And yes, im kind of married with the gnome (or halfling).
Sarta wrote:
Desna is a very good choice for clerics. I really like the Exploration and Liberation domain powers.
Halfling and halforc characters have a great RP hook as possibly ex-slaves. The halforc racial ability Chain Fighter works great with this concept.
Desna is also a great option for gnomes. As a creative goddess of dreams, luck, chaos, and musicians, she's a natural choice for a gnome attempting to avoid the bleaching.
Yeah i really like Desna! Its the bleaching/slave concept i really like with gnomes and halflings.
Merck wrote:
If you are gona buy heavy armor prof and especialise in healing you should check a dip in the holy vindicator PrC from APG. Also from the same book there is a trait that gives you an extra +2 on concentration checks, its called focused mind.
Iv actually thought of the Holy Vindicator PrC. But is the needed channeling feats really worth it? When does an alignment channel or elemental channel come in handy?
(Ok i could accept playing it as an halfling instead. But i think an gnome would be more optimal then the halfling. +2 CON beats +2 DEX if you ask me. Also the gnomish race is cooler then the halfling dito.)
I have my concept. What i would help with is comments from others if there is something iv forgotten in my build or some ideas on how to make the build better. Im not looking for the best healing cleric ever, i just want your help to improve my idea of an gnome cleric. I want him to be a good party supporter and healer. Better movement than 20 feet / round and a fairly high AC.
Im pretty damn sure i want him to use a shield.
Its a 25 point buy and i will start playing him from level 3
Ability score:
STR 10
DEX 13
CON 18
INT 10
WIS 16
CHA 12
Notes: Gnome have an penalty to STR so taking a high STR would be very expensive. Dex 13 so i can pick the feat dodge and gain +1 AC. CON 18 for the HP. INT is dump but i dont want to loose the skill point. Know. rel, heal and spellcraft feels necessary to have. Wis for obvious reasons. CHA for the extra channel.
Favored class Cleric, +1 skill point. I will put my 3 skill points each level in knowledge religion, spellcraft and heal.
Feats:
level 1: Selective channel, level 3: combat casting, level 5: tower shield prof, level 7: heavy armor pof. Level 9: dodge. Level 11: Extra channeling. Level 13: Extend spell level 15: Toughness. Level 17: some cool feat level 19: some other cool feat.
Domains: I really want travel domain, mainly cause it will give me +10 movement and that would compensate alot as i play gnome with heavy armor. Also the spell longstrider. Nice gods like Cayden, Desna and Abadar holds it. Dont know what other domain to combine it with. Perhaps good? protection? Luck?
Traits: No clue.
Gear: What to start with is not my strong side.
Dont know. Is there any information you need that i havent told?
Im playing a monk and i dont se an 100% monk as very interesting. Is it possible to multiclass it with something to make it more fun? For example cleric perhaps?
I have DM permission to edit him a little if thats needed. Right now im level 2 and playing the weapon adept variant with an temple sword.
Have you tried magus?
We only use Paizos pathfinder material. Iv never read about magus - is it core?
Is whip really a monk weapon? I cant recall that. There is alot of monk triping weapons that you could use instead and use that sweat and juice feat for something else. Like improved fortitude.
Quite possible. I play a Cleric/Monk in PFS for instance. Easy enough to continue with Cleric after 2nd level Monk. You can memorize inflict spells to deliver with your fists (or if neutral and can choose to channel negative energy, you can spontaneously cast the inflicts).
About the only thing you need outside of your own spells is a source of the Mage Armor spell (potions work fine, wand is cheaper if you have a friend to use it). Your spells can supply any other abilities you'll need (magic weapon, divine favor, bull's strength, greater magic weapon, etc.)
For flavor, the world's your oyster, cleric's marching about in just flowing rainments of their god are classic. Pick your favorite and play it up.
Druids with a level or two of monk can also be quite powerful, but generally in the "wild shape with wisdom to AC" way, which tends towards the "fight fight fight" you were talking about. Though if that sort of fighting appeals, you should have fun with it.
Could i have a look at your cleric/monk build?
Right now i am playing a monk of Irori. Im pretty new to the rules of Pathfinder and D20 games. How does it work when you add inflict spells to the flurry? Is it possible to add the spells to the temple sword attack?
I see the druid combo as pretty hard to do. It would take me alot of levels before i could wild shape, the only point of playing druid.
EDIT EDIT: Honestly, if you wanted a good monk/cleric or druid multiclass, you'd take the first 3 or 4 levels of Zen Archer Monk. (To hit based upon Wis, and you get a bunch of feats that makes your archery awesome)
Dont think Zen Archer is possible as i have picked weapon adept. Going from sword to bow would be to much of an change. + i do not like ranged weapons for flavour-ish reasons.
Multiclassing with fighter dont sound better. Sure it would give me more feats but i am having it hard seeing why my character would be funnier to play. Fighter/monk would just make him even more "fight fight fight".
Is it possible to make a fun melee build when multiclassing with druid or cleric? (or inquisitor)
Im playing a monk and i dont se an 100% monk as very interesting. Is it possible to multiclass it with something to make it more fun? For example cleric perhaps?
I have DM permission to edit him a little if thats needed. Right now im level 2 and playing the weapon adept variant with an temple sword.
