You're not missing anything, but you do have an extra "y."
|
Well, Lead Blades is an identical melee spell, and Strong Jaw a higher level, more powerful version for natural attacks. So, while you aren't missing anything, the option's available to everyone. Well, for certain values of everyone, anyway (and that's ignoring the fact that melee characters had Enlarge Person already, and that Enlarge Person and Lead Blades stack).
Bear in mind also that Gravity Bow is Target: You, so you can't cast it on anyone else, just yourself.
Gravity bow on a medium longbow will change 1d8 into 2d6. That is an average increase from 4.5 to 7, or +2.5. Magic Weapon is the same level spell, and grants +1 to hit and +1 to damage, with the same duration.
If you are creating a magic weapon, adding +1 costs the same as adding +1d6 damage (+3.5 on average). The extra damage from gravity bow is multiplied on critical hits. Most (all?) of the +1d6 enhancements are also subject to some additional form of resistance or other drawback.
Gravity Bow also only works on yourself. To cast it as a 1st level character, you need to be a sorcerer or a wizard. A ranger (for whom it is probably most effective) cannot cast it until 4th level, at which time other characters are getting second level spells. Magic Weapon can be cast on anybody's weapon.
The other similar spell is Flame Arrow, which is a third level spell. However, it has notable advantages. It adds +1d6 damage (but subject to fire resistance), but lasts 10 times longer. In addition, not only can someone else use the resulting arrows, you could give 10 of the affected arrows to 5 people and have them all use them. That in itself is likely worth a 2 level increase in the spell level.
I don't think that the spell is too strong for a first level spell. It might be a little stronger than Magic Weapon, but Magic Weapon is not in the "you must have this spell" category. The extra strength (if any) is certainly within the amount of variation seen within a single spell level.
Am I missing something?
No, not really. It's a very powerful spell. It's just another boost to the monster that an archer in Pathfinder is. A 12th level Ranger with Instant Enemy and Gravity Bow can tear through pretty much any enemy in a couple of rounds with only one round of preparation. From range, to boot!
Don't forget, ranged attackers have ammunition to lose. Let them blow through everything, eventually they run out of ammo. The melee, meanwhile, chuckle and keep trucking on
No, not really. It's a very powerful spell. It's just another boost to the monster that an archer in Pathfinder is. A 12th level Ranger with Instant Enemy and Gravity Bow can tear through pretty much any enemy in a couple of rounds with only one round of preparation. From range, to boot!
While using all of your first level spells for the day (except your bonus spells).
I think the problem there is more likely to be Instant Enemy than Gravity Bow. Instant Enemy is a swift action to cast, so you do not lose a round casting it. It is based on your favored enemy bonus, so it scales better with level. At the very least, you are guaranteed +2 to hit and damage (and +4 at level 5 and higher).
You also gain a similar bonus on some skill checks. (Admittedly, the skill checks will often be less useful, but if the enemy is a rogue who is hiding and/or feinting, they will help.)
The only down side is that it is a single target spell. It won't help clearing minions out of the way, but it will work well against the BBEG.
Don't forget, ranged attackers have ammunition to lose. Let them blow through everything, eventually they run out of ammo. The melee, meanwhile, chuckle and keep trucking on
Oh noes.
While using all of your first level spells for the day (except your bonus spells).
I think the problem there is more likely to be Instant Enemy than Gravity Bow. Instant Enemy is a swift action to cast, so you do not lose a round casting it. It is based on your favored enemy bonus, so it scales better with level. At the very least, you are guaranteed +2 to hit and damage (and +4 at level 5 and higher).
You also gain a similar bonus on some skill checks. (Admittedly, the skill checks will often be less useful, but if the enemy is a rogue who is hiding and/or feinting, they will help.)
The only down side is that it is a single target spell. It won't help clearing minions out of the way, but it will work well against the BBEG.
Yeah, I guess it's more of an issue with instant enemy. It can be replicated with the guide archetype and its ranger's focus ability at lower levels, though. The APG was a pretty hefty power creep for the ranger.
I guess I just dislike the way favored enemy was handled in PF. It's very situational, but when it comes up it's too damn powerful imo.
I don't think this is an overpowered spell. Both Gravity Bow and Lead Blade require a standard action to cast. This is fine if you are preparing for a fight, but if your combat starts out as a surprise, you must use one of your turns to cast the spell. You can't cast and fire in the same round.
3.5 Spell Compendium had several Ranger archery spells that were swift actions -- Arrow Mind was a must have.
-Swiftbrook
It's a decent spell for rangers, though its downsides have been covered by other posters already (limited duration, standard action means unless you can pre-buff knowing a combat is coming you waste a whole turn of attacks to put the spell up, limited number of level 1 spells per day, etc.)
Other than rangers, the spell has a darn high opportunity cost. Fighter Archers won't be getting it at all without paying a rather hefty price in terms of skill points, lost BAB, fewer HP, loss of capstone ability, etc.
Arcane Archer style builds use it well, but they are already paying the aforementioned opportunity cost in terms of lost BAB and such...so really it's not too bad at first level considering who would use it and what they trade to get it.
Other than rangers, the spell has a darn high opportunity cost. Fighter Archers won't be getting it at all without paying a rather hefty price in terms of skill points, lost BAB, fewer HP, loss of capstone ability, etc.
Not really, it's easy enough to give it to a fighter.
Mainly its the standard action to use that has to be done by the archer that makes it less problematic.
-James
I must be missing something. How do you give it to a fighter without throwing a bunch of skills into UMD or taking levels in another class?
I don't see "one spell level" on the list- I see 3 spell levels for 30k.
Ioun Stones are 3 levels for 30k.
The Minor Ring of spell storing is 3 levels for 18k, or 5 for 50k for the "normal" ring of spell storing, or 200k for 10 levels for the major ring.
1k for 1 level? No.
Luckily though the wand is cheap: 750 gold per 50 charges.
If we assume no more than 1/2 your level spent on any item and using the suggested WBL you are looking at 10th level before you can buy/find the Ioun stone assuming a friend doesn't have the feat. And that you have the time required to make it. And even then you are blowing fully *half* of your gear to make your bow hit a little harder. And spending a standard action to do it. (Ioun stone or ring doesn't alleviate the 1 standard action casting time, unless I missed a sentence in them). Wouldn't you just be better off spending that 1 round actually shooting things with your bow than to cast a spell that'll increase the damage per arrow slightly? I mean we're looking at 1 minute per charge (assuming minimum caster level)
Is it impossible to do? No, I just can't imagine that it'd do as good as just.. using your bow, especially when you take into account what else you could have bought for fully half of your wealth. Obviously- the higher you get the less of a percentage of your wealth the combo will be but it'll always be a standard action to cast.
-S
|
|
I don't see "one spell level" on the list-Look at the full list that Paizo has done out. There are flawed and cracked ioun stones beyond the 3e SRD list.
-James
That's actually 2,000 GP. Still, you have a point.
On the other hand, it still takes a Standard Action. I'd be interested in seeing the math on how many rounds the fight has to last before giving up a Full Attack action is made up for by 1.5 damage per shot.
In fact...looking at Farshot Fallon (the human Fighter from page 1 of the DPR Olympics), her average DPR is 68.25. Gravity Bow would only increase that by 5 pts a round or so (5.11, to be specific), so a fight would need to last 14 rounds before that's a good action investment.
Now, if you've got a round to prep, it's not a bad idea at all, but it's also an average of 5 pts of damage per round or so. Hardly game breaking.
In fact...looking at Farshot Fallon (the human Fighter from page 1 of the DPR Olympics), her average DPR is 68.25. Gravity Bow would only increase that by 5 pts a round or so (5.11, to be specific), so a fight would need to last 14 rounds before that's a good action investment.
Now, if you've got a round to prep, it's not a bad idea at all, but it's also an average of 5 pts of damage per round or so. Hardly game breaking.
I'm not really fond of the DPR Olympics, but even according to that thread, "a +1 to damage is worth 3.42 DPR". 2.5 increase to damage would then = +8.55 damage.
|
|
I'm not really fond of the DPR Olympics, but even according to that thread, "a +1 to damage is worth 3.42 DPR". 2.5 increase to damage would then = +8.55 damage.
Darn. It's just not my day. I was thinking 1.5 for some reason, not 2.5.
You are, of course, correct. So, only 8 rounds of actual combat needed before it's a good idea. And a very good idea (though still not overpowering, IMO) for someone with prep-time.
Of course, a melee character can do exactly the same with Lead Blades, possibly for even more damage. So there's that.
I don't see "one spell level" on the list-Look at the full list that Paizo has done out. There are flawed and cracked ioun stones beyond the 3e SRD list.
-James
Where?
And I used the PRD which is supposed to have all of the Core and is upkept by Paizo not some 3pp organization.
I'm not doubting you just trying to find where they are at. :)
-S
|
|
Where?And I used the PRD which is supposed to have all of the Core and is upkept by Paizo not some 3pp organization.
I'm not doubting you just trying to find where they are at. :)
-S
Seekers of Secrets, the book on the actual Pathfinder Society in Golarion. Or the off-site http://www.d20pfsrd.com/ under non-core Wondrous Items.
Ah, thanks.. I don't have that book as I've not done any PFS stuffs as yet.
Thanks for the info.
-S
I must be missing something. How do you give it to a fighter without throwing a bunch of skills into UMD or taking levels in another class?You spend 1k gold on an ioun stone that lets you store a level 1 spell. Then you either get a wand of it and a +1 or higher UMD score, or a wand of it and either a wizard/sorcerer/ranger at the table.
In other words it's not that hard.
-James
Got it. Though I think that comes with the caveat: Make sure you do this at a table of rabid power-gamers...especially if your group is just playing with the main hardcovers.
|
|
Ah, thanks.. I don't have that book as I've not done any PFS stuffs as yet.
Thanks for the info.
-S
To clarify: It's not about PFS the OOC Organized Play Group, it's about the IC Pathfinder Society of treasure hunters and chroniclers based out of Absalom in the world of Golarion.
Just to be clear what the book's about. :)
|
|
A 12th level Ranger with Instant Enemy and Gravity Bow can tear through pretty much any enemy in a couple of rounds with only one round of preparation.
Any competently built 12th level character can tear apart the opposition "in a couple of rounds", and many with no preparation.
-- Show me an archer who's casting spells, and I'll show you a build which is permanently -1 to hit on every shot he takes because there's a BAB=0 level of wizard or sorc in there. (That's not as bad as it sounds given the need for most archer builds to buff on their own and get their will-saves up, but it's something to think about when the opposition is full-BAB.)
Got it. Though I think that comes with the caveat: Make sure you do this at a table of rabid power-gamers...especially if your group is just playing with the main hardcovers.I'm sorry?
I think that this is a bit over the top considering how disparaging one can take 'rabid power-gamers'.
Perhaps I'm misreading intent here- being over this medium, and I'm sorry if this was 'showing you up' or the like, but the response is just uncalled for.
-James
I'm a rabid power-gamer at times, and I'd let it fly at my table. BUT, putting spells in Ioun stones from fairly "out of the way" books as opposed to the Core and APG, and then using that over and over again with wands that you give to other PCs to cast for you seems a circuitous enough route that it may be looked down upon at many tables. I mean, if you want to make a Fighter archer who has a bunch of knowledge arcana so that he would realistically know to look for these things to work this tactic, then that might be a little less transparently power-gamish. As it is, having a Fighter with no real knowledge of magic hit 3rd level and suddenly know of this magically circuitous route to get a spell he wants on him most of the time seems rather meta-gamey. Unless of course NPC archers are all running around with 1k ioun stones and wands of gravity bow. In which case, it's obviously well known enough that a good ol' fighter would know to do it.
I'm sorry if "rabid power-gamers" offended you. Perhaps I should say "people who have and use a very high level of system mastery in building and equipping their characters."
I don't feel shown up; I think it's a pretty creative way of getting what you want. I just know it would be eyerolled at SOME of the tables I play(ed) at. For me it's alongside (but not really as bad as) getting defending armor spikes.
I was just giving an honest caveat to whoever may be reading that if they use that strategy in their games, some people may cry cheesiness. Maybe my opinion is wrong, and you are welcome to logically present an opposing opinion, but asking if I felt "shown up" and saying that what I said was "uncalled for" doesn't really SHOW why you think my opinion was incorrect.
A 12th level Ranger with Instant Enemy and Gravity Bow can tear through pretty much any enemy in a couple of rounds with only one round of preparation.Any competently built 12th level character can tear apart the opposition "in a couple of rounds", and many with no preparation.
-- Show me an archer who's casting spells, and I'll show you a build which is permanently -1 to hit on every shot he takes because there's a BAB=0 level of wizard or sorc in there. (That's not as bad as it sounds given the need for most archer builds to buff on their own and get their will-saves up, but it's something to think about when the opposition is full-BAB.)
You're so right about the trade of BAB for buffs you get access to through spellcasting that you might not otherwise have had. Heroism is one, for instance, that goes a long way towards making up some of that ground. The damage from Arcane Strike is another nice thing (especially with so many attacks per round!) that helps balance out. Then there are the archers who are flying all day long, can go greater invisibility, who craft most of their gear at half price, can cast Greater Magic Weapon (and subsequently load their bows with Holy and elemental enchantments), etc.
So, while it's certainly painful at times to lose that BAB, there is a huge amount of interesting options and ramifications to consider when making the choice.