"Improved Familiar" feat... why take it?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Ironicdisaster wrote:
And salt mephits are a hit at parties! Especially if you know a wizard with a tequila mephits.

Tequila Mephit +1


I like the air familiars with a 100' speed, flyby attack, weapon finess. all of which they get for free.

"my familiar holds until I cast a spell using it as the 'toucher.' I cast shocking grasp. familiar fly's past the target 50' away and attempts to hit him."

It's useful. You have to watch out for attacks of opportunity, but if it's already take one for the round it probably doesnt get another.


Manufactured Reach Weapons is a good one for those that can use them...
Can`t deliver Touch Spells (but what if you are a Magus!?!?!?) but it lets them provide Flanking.
Seriously, if ALL your Familiar does is move around and provide Flanking, the party Rogue will love you / your Familiar.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Since this is a familiar thread and talking about the relative power of the improved familiars, I was wondering what people thought of the relative power of allowing the "advanced" simple template or "gargantuan" simple template on a basic familiar as a fair exchange for the feat and balanced against the other options, and what the reasonable minimum level would be. Both are CR +1, as is the option to have a celestial/fiendish familiar.


I have always wanted to play a halfling wizard with a riding dog familiar. I don't think a riding dog would be any more powerful than an imp or faerie dragon. Seriously, a faerie dragon casts spells as a 3rd level sorceror with greater invisibility 3/day.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
jgtn wrote:
I have always wanted to play a halfling wizard with a riding dog familiar. I don't think a riding dog would be any more powerful than an imp or faerie dragon. Seriously, a faerie dragon casts spells as a 3rd level sorceror with greater invisibility 3/day.

If spell casting is a level based variable would that advance with the wizards level

Grand Lodge

wraithstrike wrote:
Klebert L. Hall wrote:

Honestly, I think people generally take Improved Familiar because they think the new familiar is cool.

-Kle.
Not to many people use feats for fluff reasons. I don't think it is a bad thing, but I would not do so unless the DM were willing to tone the game down for my suboptimal yet flavorful feat selection.

Somehow I don't think that one feat by itself would change you from workable to "suboptimal". It depends alot on your style and the style of the game. I can think of a lot of scenarios where familliars like these come in very handy.


wraithstrike wrote:
Not to many people use feats for fluff reasons.

I don't think there's any evidence one way or the other. Saying otherwise is just making things up.

Sczarni

Arnwyn wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Not to many people use feats for fluff reasons.
I don't think there's any evidence one way or the other. Saying otherwise is just making things up.

78% of all statistics are just made up on the spot, didn't you know?

Spoiler:
Including that one, of course


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Anyone who thinks Improved Familiar is underpowered compared to other spellcaster feats obviously doesn't have much in-game experience with it. I mean, what other spellcasting feats is it competing with? Spell Focus? Spell Penetration? Metamagic and item creation?

The only feats that I can think of that are clearly superior are Leadership and Spell Perfection.

Another character, especially one that is hard to kill, has a host of special abilities you don't, and can use wands and other magical items, is a POWERFUL asset.

My invisible imp would spy on the enemy, scout ahead by flying high in the sky, poison the enemies food prior to our attack, blast enemies with a variety of wands I made for him, heal my character with potions when I was dying, contact other planar entities to give the party direction, and generally lie, cheat, steal, and murder to further my character's/the party's goals.

A single feat for all that was MORE than worth it. Someone who doesn't realize that is being deliberately obtuse.

EDIT: Also, familiars don't gain feats or ability DC increases because they don't actually gain additional hit dice. However, there is no reason you can't switch out the feats or the skills that come with their racial hit dice (GM permitting).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:


EDIT: Also, familiars don't gain feats or ability DC increases because they don't actually gain additional hit dice. However, there is no reason you can't switch out the feats or the skills that come with their racial hit dice (GM permitting).

From the PRD:

Hit Dice : For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher.

So I think that means ability dc's based off hit dice do improve, for example a viper's poison.


DC´s improve, some things like Lay on Hands improve.
Somebody mentioned spellcasting...
that is dependent on have class levels of classes that give +1 spellcasting level, NOT HD.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Haven't the developers already clarified this? Am I misremembering what was said?


Ravingdork wrote:
Haven't the developers already clarified this? Am I misremembering what was said?

Yeah one of them came into a thread where I was talking up the silvanshee and basically said I was right about the hit dice thing for abilities and DCs.

However in an earlier thread (much long time ago) they also stated that familiars do not gain feats, skill points, or the like for the 'effective hit dice' that they have.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Abraham spalding wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Haven't the developers already clarified this? Am I misremembering what was said?

Yeah one of them came into a thread where I was talking up the silvanshee and basically said I was right about the hit dice thing for abilities and DCs.

However in an earlier thread (much long time ago) they also stated that familiars do not gain feats, skill points, or the like for the 'effective hit dice' that they have.

Link or it didn't happen. :P

Liberty's Edge

LazarX wrote:


Somehow I don't think that one feat by itself would change you from workable to "suboptimal". It depends alot on your style and the style of the game. I can think of a lot of scenarios where familliars like these come in very handy.

I concur.

-Kle.


Ravingdork wrote:
Link or it didn't happen. :P

You know that's not how I work. I tell you it happened, then someone else goes and searches for it for everyone and then posts the links.

However just this once, because it is you asking for them, here are the threads I have asked 'familiar' questions in:

When you can take improved familiar

About the Silvanshee's powers and the relevant rules

Here is a short thread on the hit dice issues

A short discussion between me and Nethys on it

...And that's all I'm finding short term... someone else can look farther for me.


Jacobs's interpretation of effective HD in regards to familiars.

YMMV.

Grand Lodge

Ravingdork wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Haven't the developers already clarified this? Am I misremembering what was said?

Yeah one of them came into a thread where I was talking up the silvanshee and basically said I was right about the hit dice thing for abilities and DCs.

However in an earlier thread (much long time ago) they also stated that familiars do not gain feats, skill points, or the like for the 'effective hit dice' that they have.

Link or it didn't happen. :P

Familliars don't gain skill points, because they copy the skill ranks of their masters. Note however that due to limitations not all the "copied" skills will be usable.


Sorry, I was remembering from Mongoose's Familiars books on the feats, skills etc.
You could add classes to your familiar by spending exp points


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Haven't the developers already clarified this? Am I misremembering what was said?

Yeah one of them came into a thread where I was talking up the silvanshee and basically said I was right about the hit dice thing for abilities and DCs.

However in an earlier thread (much long time ago) they also stated that familiars do not gain feats, skill points, or the like for the 'effective hit dice' that they have.

Link or it didn't happen. :P
Familliars don't gain skill points, because they copy the skill ranks of their masters. Note however that due to limitations not all the "copied" skills will be usable.

They don't gain additional skill ranks. They have what they start out with (for their 1 or 2 actual racial HD) as well as what you have.

I see no reason why you couldn't change a few of those beginning ranks. After all, not every familiar of the same kind is going to be identical to the next.

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