Batman/Bruce Wayne, we all know who he is and why he became a superhero. He has no super powers, but he is a genius. After witnessing the murder of his parents, he also became insane. He used that mixture of genius, insanity, and his parent's money to become The Batman!
Basically, he is trained in every known martial art, and he pretty much knows everything. He probably has a photographic memory, because how else could he learn and master so many different skills. He has trained his body to the peak of physical perfection. Also, Batman is insane, and that insanity makes him capable of doing things no normal Olympic level athlete can do. Plus, he has a ton of gadgets and devices that he uses.
Captain America/Steve Rogers was a sick, skinny weakly until he was injected with the Super Serum in WWII and it made him more than physically perfect. It also made his mind super too, because he is capable of coming up with brillant combat styles, manuvers, and battle plans. However, that super mind doesn't include being able to create gadgets.
He has mastered most of the martial arts and he is considered the greatest fighter in the world. Plus, he has the invulnerable shield that he can use as a weapon.
The fight: Captain America wins. Why? Because he always wins in the end. I remember him once saying that, "Hawkeye never misses, and Captain America never loses." The fight would be long, brutal, and it would take a lot of twists and turns, but in the end Captain America would figure out a way to win. Why? Because he always does.
Batman, with all of his genius, insanity, gadgets, etc, really is just a normal man. Captain America is a super steriod powered soldiers, and his body is more than human.
In the fight, Captain America will defeat Batman...
You're the same guy that made the Captain Marvel versus Superman, aren't you? Look, if you want to start flamewars about this stuff you need to do it on a comics dedicated forum. This an RPG forum at heart, so if you want a flamewar you have to go to gamer talk or the 4th edition section and say something nice about 4th edition. It will have 20 pages of personal insults in the first day. Noob trolls should do a six month program on the board that must not be named before going solo like this.
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Like any battle between superheroes, the winner will be determined by A) who is most popular and B) who the writer wants to win.
In JLA/Avengers, Batman and Captain American did face off, but they both decided that any actual fight between them would take too long to resolve and they agreed instead to try and figure out what was going on instead.
Also, on the last JLA/Avengers crossover Batman himself admits that Cap would defeat him in a hand to hand fight. Ignoring your "Caps ability is never losing", Cap IS almost superhuman, he is stronger and faster than Bats. Batman lost to Deathstroke for the same reason. Batman is also not exactly shy to say that there are better martial artists around, Shiva, Bronze Tiger, Richard Dragon and Batgirl Cassandra Cain for instance, and that any of them have a reasonable chance to defeat him in a fair fight. Of course getting a fair fight from the Batman is a task in and of itself. Also Batman would defeat the Cap if he had prep time. Why? Because Batman can defeat ANYONE with enough prep time.
You're the same guy that made the Captain Marvel versus Superman, aren't you? Look, if you want to start flamewars about this stuff you need to do it on a comics dedicated forum. This an RPG forum at heart, so if you want a flamewar you have to go to gamer talk or the 4th edition section and say something nice about 4th edition. It will have 20 pages of personal insults in the first day. Noob trolls should do a six month program on the board that must not be named before going solo like this.
I can't believe you wrote that...
Also, on the last JLA/Avengers crossover Batman himself admits that Cap would defeat him in a hand to hand fight. Ignoring your "Caps ability is never losing", Cap IS almost superhuman, he is stronger and faster than Bats. Batman lost to Deathstroke for the same reason. Batman is also not exactly shy to say that there are better martial artists around, Shiva, Bronze Tiger, Richard Dragon and Batgirl Cassandra Cain for instance, and that any of them have a reasonable chance to defeat him in a fair fight. Of course getting a fair fight from the Batman is a task in and of itself. Also Batman would defeat the Cap if he had prep time. Why? Because Batman can defeat ANYONE with enough prep time.
This would be a fair fight between them, and Batman would have all of the prep time he needed. Even with that, Captain America would still win, because he would figure out a way to do it. The Super Serum gave him a Super Intellect, which he has channeled into fighting and battle tactics. Fair or unfair, Captain America wins...
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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The Super Serum gave him a Super Intellect, which he has channeled into fighting and battle tactics. Fair or unfair, Captain America wins...
Nope. Never part of his power suite (I say, as the guy who wrote up the "Captain America" entry in the "Gamer's Guide to the Marvel Universe" back in the early 1990's). His tactics, like Nick Fury's and Wolverine's, come from decades in the field.
For what it's worth, the Red Skull now wears an identical clone body of Rogers, down to the finger-prints, save that he got half a dose of his own red death powder and has his old hideous face. In particular, if Cap had "super-intellect" the Skull would be a tactical genius, too. But he keeps losing....
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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The Super Serum gave him a Super Intellect, which he has channeled into fighting and battle tactics. Fair or unfair, Captain America wins...Nope. Never part of his power suite (I say, as the guy who wrote up the "Captain America" entry in the "Gamer's Guide to the Marvel Universe" back in the early 1990's). His tactics, like Nick Fury's and Wolverine's, come from decades in the field.
For what it's worth, the Red Skull now wears an identical clone body of Rogers, down to the finger-prints, save that he got half a dose of his own red death powder and has his old hideous face. In particular, if Cap had "super-intellect" the Skull would be a tactical genius, too. But he keeps losing....
Actually the Red Skull bytes the dust in Reborn (Pun intended, his digital self dies) Sin looks to be stepping into her dad's skull. I'd like a) to see Johann Schmitt stay dead for a decade or two (if not Baron Zemo I style permanently).
FYI, here's how I see it.
Steve vs. Bruce: Tough fight, but Steve wins. (heck, he beat Prometheus w/o breaking a sweat.)
Bucky vs. Dick: Tough, if Dick surprises Bucky, he wins. If Bucky has time to prepare, he just goes all Winter Soldier to pick him off at range.
Tim vs. John Walker: No contest Tim beats John, Lemar, etc. If worse comes to worse, Tim calls in Conner to beat the hell out of the augmented strength duo.
Damian vs. Rikki Barns: Rikki wins, because everyone hates Damien. Though Stephanie and Rikki are neck and neck, and Cassie wipes the floor with Rikki.
Now for the real geek fest. Buisek vs Morrison. Fight!
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I'm a bit curious what kind of scenario would have to be enacted for them to start fighting for an extended period of time. They're both a bit too smart to be tricked for long despite some differences in view point.
Any reasonable attempt at a versus would end up with a team up effort to defeat some greater evil and then probably respect.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I'm a bit curious what kind of scenario would have to be enacted for them to start fighting for an extended period of time. They're both a bit too smart to be tricked for long despite some differences in view point.
Any reasonable attempt at a versus would end up with a team up effort to defeat some greater evil and then probably respect.
Deathstroke pretends to be the Batman, or Taskmaster pretends to be Steve/James. Then they encounter the real one...
Santa Claus vs. The Easter Bunny! Winner gets a crack at the Tooth Fairy.
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So despite my love for Captain America, I gotta say if it is "Dark Knight Returns" Batman the cap is done. Since Batmans planning would be kill him dead that doesnt really give cap the chance to make a comeback.
But otherwise Batman doesnt break the no killing rule and Captain doesnt know how to give up but then neither does Batman. I say eventual draw due to heartattacks from exhaustion.
The Super Serum gave him a Super Intellect, which he has channeled into fighting and battle tactics. Fair or unfair, Captain America wins...Nope. Never part of his power suite (I say, as the guy who wrote up the "Captain America" entry in the "Gamer's Guide to the Marvel Universe" back in the early 1990's). His tactics, like Nick Fury's and Wolverine's, come from decades in the field.
For what it's worth, the Red Skull now wears an identical clone body of Rogers, down to the finger-prints, save that he got half a dose of his own red death powder and has his old hideous face. In particular, if Cap had "super-intellect" the Skull would be a tactical genius, too. But he keeps losing....
I just have to disagree with you on the Super Intellect part. My theory is that the super serum enhanced his mind too, so the Red Skull's also has the same effects with his mind. However, unlike Cap he is evil, insane, and super-arrogant. That always undermines him in the end. He has had the power of the Cosmic Cube more than once, and he just wasted that ultimate power.
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IMO, Batman is probably smarter than Captain America (who has never, to my knowledge, had any sort of super-intelligence).
The real differences between the two;
Batman has a bewildering plethora of toys, some of which might trump the indestructible shield (gases, etc.). He's much better at the sneak attack, the ambush and the 'equilizing' by using his toys to disadvantage foes.
Captain America doesn't fatigue easily and hasn't gotten significantly older, despite all of the fighting experience he's racked up. The Super-Soldier formula suggests that if Batman doesn't take him out relatively quickly, Captain America is going to win an extended brawl.
If they just take off their shirts and get into an Irish bare-knuckles brawl, I think Captain America will take it. But that's not Batman's forte, and the assortment of quirky little gizmos and 'dirty tricks' he's got tucked away could result in a quick win for him, if he catches Captain America with one of them and presses the advantage before Cap can recover.
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Daredevil / Nightwing would be an interesting matchup. Two highly acrobatic martial artists, both focused on stick-fighting techniques.
Ditto Mockingbird / Huntress.
Ditto Mockingbird / Huntress.
Now that would be a fight I would want to see...though the more I am thinking about it...it is less a fight than something else.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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IMO, Batman is probably smarter than Captain America (who has never, to my knowledge, had any sort of super-intelligence).
The real differences between the two;
Batman has a bewildering plethora of toys, some of which might trump the indestructible shield (gases, etc.). He's much better at the sneak attack, the ambush and the 'equilizing' by using his toys to disadvantage foes.<snip>
Also depends on what part of their careers. Steve right before the Secret Empire storyline, his super strength might give him the suprise he needs. Right after? He's such a wreck Damien coud beat him. Steve as head of SHIELD? Steve wins the toys game. ;-) Plus for a while we know Steve carried his normal shield and the photonic shield.
Daredevil / Nightwing would be an interesting matchup. Two highly acrobatic martial artists, both focused on stick-fighting techniques.
Ditto Mockingbird / Huntress.
Hmm, I'm enough of a Wingnut to give the edge to Dick.
I don't know about Bobbie/Helena, but I did enjoy the Helena/Diana battles in JLU.
How about Red Hood vs Protocide/Crazy 1950's Cap?
Hell, I really wanna see my beloved All Star G$%+#&n Batman against Ulti-Cap. Now THAT would be a fight.
Oh come on, they edit g$*$**n? That's just silly.
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Hmm, I'm enough of a Wingnut to give the edge to Dick.Daredevil / Nightwing would be an interesting matchup. Two highly acrobatic martial artists, both focused on stick-fighting techniques.
Ditto Mockingbird / Huntress.
Oh yeah, if the battle was decided based on which character I liked more, Cap would trounce the Bat, Helena would school Bobbie, and the first sidekick would pummel the blind lawyer.
How about Red Hood vs Protocide/Crazy 1950's Cap?
I'm not really familiar with either of those characters. Red Hood's pretty much the killer-Bucky for DC, right? (thought-to-be-dead-kid-sidekick come back with guns and a '90s EXTREME! Guns, knives, more guns! Pouches everywhere! Angry! Violent! Tortured! 'tude)
I really don't want to start anything BUT I thought this was supposed be as serious a discussion as can be had about fictional characters...
@Leafar The Lost...
You started all this because YOUR ''theory'' is that it also enhanced his mind?!?!??!?!? Just to be clear: YOUR ''theory''.
How nice it is when fan fic and the real work collide... Obviously fan fic trumps the work.
Patrick
Its not a theory, its a fact...
The stuff that Marvel writes says it isn't, sooo...
Even in Marvel's game systems good old Cap is listed as having a Reason statistic(smarts) of Good(10), with average being Typical(6). He is a little smarter then average in terms of raw intellectual power, but not in any way shape or form superhuman in that aspect.
@Leafar...
Are we talking Ultimate Cap?
And please, point me where you getting this info. Cos I've been reading Brubaker's run and I really don't see it...
Patrick
I am talking Ultimate Captain America here. He makes the "regular" Captain America look like a whimp in comparison, and right now he calling himself Steve Rogers anyway...
What about Cap vs Deathstroke..now that would be interesting clash.
I have to admit that I actually like Deathstroke as a villan..Slade Wilson has always had layers to him that make him more than your average sociopath.
I am talking Ultimate Captain America here. He makes the "regular" Captain America look like a whimp in comparison, and right now he calling himself Steve Rogers anyway...@Leafar...
Are we talking Ultimate Cap?
And please, point me where you getting this info. Cos I've been reading Brubaker's run and I really don't see it...
Patrick
Ultimate Captain America is, at best, a jerk who isn't worthy of using the name. At worst...*shudder*
Just an all around obnoxious jerk of a character.
I am talking Ultimate Captain America here. He makes the "regular" Captain America look like a whimp in comparison, and right now he calling himself Steve Rogers anyway...@Leafar...
Are we talking Ultimate Cap?
And please, point me where you getting this info. Cos I've been reading Brubaker's run and I really don't see it...
Patrick
Ultimate Captain America is, at best, a jerk who isn't worthy of using the name. At worst...*shudder*
Just an all around obnoxious jerk of a character.
I loves me some ultimate cap and all star batman. I understand that that they are not everyone's cup of tea, however.