So I'm thinking of building a Two-Weapon Warrior. Plan is to specialize in and eventually dual wield a one-handed non-light weapon when the Improved Balance class feature kicks in at 11th (APG page 109).
So what weapon to choose?
Is Bastard Sword Exotic Weapon Prof worth it to aspire to a d10 in each hand?
How about the Falcata with the x3 crit?
I think maybe the Aldori dueling sword is meant to work better as a single wield build.
Since you eventually have to get up to a 19 Dex, is Weapon Finesse worth it? Or just concentrate on strength and get the minimum Dex through magic belts and such?
I think I would do Falcata, throwing in improved Critical or Keen and you have some pretty good damage potential.
You'll find a large number of opinions on this one. Which will show that there's a lot of different styles that appeal for this. Some will say that its not viable compared to weap/shield or 2-handers.
Personally i'd not worry about the weapon die size and just use kukri. Pirahna strike is power attack for light weapons. Weap finesse gives you solid hit power. Use holy, elemental burst, and raw + for base damage as well as weapon specialization. A moderate strength helps fine. (14 before str belt works well enough)
I've played that and it was fun.
If you do want the larger weapon size, i suggest scimitar(no need to spend a feat) or if you insist on a feat, the Falcata.
Someone will be along shortly to tell me i am "wrong".
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Rathendar is wrong (as usual). Look at that cocky sneer on his face? Can someone so self assured actually be right? I think not.
Rathendar is wrong (as usual). Look at that cocky sneer on his face? Can someone so self assured actually be right? I think not.
haha!
well played, well played.
You'll find a large number of opinions on this one. Which will show that there's a lot of different styles that appeal for this. Some will say that its not viable compared to weap/shield or 2-handers.
Personally i'd not worry about the weapon die size and just use kukri. Pirahna strike is power attack for light weapons. Weap finesse gives you solid hit power. Use holy, elemental burst, and raw + for base damage as well as weapon specialization. A moderate strength helps fine. (14 before str belt works well enough)
I've played that and it was fun.
If you do want the larger weapon size, i suggest scimitar(no need to spend a feat) or if you insist on a feat, the Falcata.
Someone will be along shortly to tell me i am "wrong".
I threw a dual kukri wielder at my players when I was a DM once, they were unpleasantly surprised. It's a good weapon for a dual wield.
I would probably carry a kukri as my off-hand weapon at low levels, until I'm studly enough to pick up a second Falcata, or whatever.
I'm just attracted to the idea of swinging two big-ish weapons once the ability becomes available, just for the "shock and awe" value.
In the grand scheme of things, a bigger die probably isn't as important as other factors, unless you go way up the vital strike tree. But my understanding is that vital strike isn't compatible with a full attack and multiple swings, so it doesn't have as much synergy with a two-weapon build.
One of the things that concerns me about weapon finesse is that you restrict your useful armor types as you pump your Dex to the crazy high numbers at higher levels.
YOUR WRONG..no that a good Idea, weapon die is not as important. Kukri are pretty fun and that build would work pretty well. I would still Falcata becouse they are new and I have never done that before.
I suggested kukri because of the 3 point crit range. My other tactical suggestion is to match them, not 1 falcata/1 kukri, so that you get the double dip in the weap focus/weap spec/improved crit feats. Improved/keen 3 point crit ranges for a dual wield build lead to a lot of critical feats going off at the higher levels.
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I would suggest whatever weapon sounds fun and interesting. The difference in the long run is going to be trivial and it's not going to affect your total fun factor by a huge amount.
One I've done is the dagger, I like it because you can throw it when you can't make a melee attack, either at the beginning of combat or at the end of a full round action. There is a nice trait that gives a +1 on dagger damage bumping it's damage up so it's inline with the short sword. And... I do manage to launch a fair number of daggers at the end of a turn or at the beginning of combat when I wouldn't otherwise be able to attack.
By far *not* the most devastating damaging weapon but it's a fun versatile option.
I would suggest whatever weapon sounds fun and interesting. The difference in the long run is going to be trivial and it's not going to affect your total fun factor by a huge amount.
One I've done is the dagger, I like it because you can throw it when you can't make a melee attack, either at the beginning of combat or at the end of a full round action. There is a nice trait that gives a +1 on dagger damage bumping it's damage up so it's inline with the short sword. And... I do manage to launch a fair number of daggers at the end of a turn or at the beginning of combat when I wouldn't otherwise be able to attack.
By far *not* the most devastating damaging weapon but it's a fun versatile option.
I'll add in that i also have done a 2-weap dagger build and used that aspect as well. Was definitely fun.
Don`t feel like `you have to` get Greater 2WF, it`s the attack least likely to hit...
And there`s plenty of other Feats you can take instead, while not forcing your choice of stat investments.
The most gonzo choice would be 2WFing with 2 Two Bladed Swords (as one handed weapons per their description) ;-)
Don`t feel like `you have to` get Greater 2WF, it`s the attack least likely to hit...
And there`s plenty of other Feats you can take instead, while not forcing your choice of stat investments.The most gonzo choice would be 2WFing with 2 Two Bladed Swords (as one handed weapons per their description) ;-)
I forgot about the two bladed sword. I actually liked twf with this as a build. You can use the 2-blade as a 2-hander when you move and only get 1 attack, getting the strx1.5 on that. (which is the only time it would be useful with vital strike if you have feats to throw away)
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Back in 3.5 I did the whole Invisible Blade thing and duel wielded daggers. Lots of fun when we were not fighting constructs (which the campaign seems to be filled with.)
There are a lot of great options. Daggers, kukri, short sword, longsword, scimitar, rapier, punching dagger, falcata, are just a few of the options, and often viewed as the best.
I personally like daggers because of their utility. Good crit range, you can throw them, and concealable. Even if you don't choose them for weapon focus, carry a few. In fact, have +1 Keen (and/or Distance) Dagger on a list of must have items no matter what you choose. That might be an expensive buy, but there will be a time when you thank me for that advice.
Double Kukri is my personal choice at the moment. My group just took on a group of duel wielding kukri baddies and my fighter took seven critical hits in a row and lived to tell about it. That might not be that big of a deal from a 1d4 weapons, but we also use the Critical Hit Decks. If you use the deck, then go kukri. If you don't, plan on taking some critical feats to increase the hurt.
For me the appeal of duel wielding hasn't been about the die size of the damage, but the possibility of scoring critical hits. Because of the critical feats (and the critical hit cards if you use them,) scoring critical hits is even more game changing then ever. Bleed damage and conditions will change a fight faster then any DPR. Keep that in mind when the two-handed weapon wielder chuckles at the small blades you fight with.
It looks like you are looking to use the two-weapon archetype. I am not convinced that archetype is the best way to build a duel wielder. Look into weapon master, especially if you wield the same weapon in both hands. Also, don't underestimate a normal fighter with no archetypes. Most of the archetypes are slightly underpowered in comparison to the normal fighter. For example, consider the benefits of having a +4 to hit and damage, as well as an additional +4 Dex bonus to armor class. With a high dex build, you could use both the weapon training and armor training class features to great effect.
I have no personal experience with the falcata, but I can see the appeal. I would hold off on using it for now, as a two-weapon build is feat heavy as it is. An interesting note about the real-life weapon though. In Greek poetry and stories the bad guys used falcatas. In real life, the Spartans favored the weapon above the normal short sword everyone else used.
Lastly, my best advice is really this: If you have fun then there is no one true way. I had a blast playing my duel wielding character in a campaign where everything seemed to be immune to critical hits and sneak attacks. Was he "the best" choice for that game? Maybe not, but when we did have humanoid opponents our Sunder Barbarian was not as useful as he normally was.
My other tactical suggestion is to match them, not 1 falcata/1 kukri, so that you get the double dip in the weap focus/weap spec/improved crit feats.
I was planning to match things eventually, because the ability doesn't kick in until 11th. So I was gonna use a light weapon offhand to start. That might be a long time to wait for the intended build to pan out.
One I've done is the dagger, I like it because you can throw it when you can't make a melee attack, either at the beginning of combat or at the end of a full round action. There is a nice trait that gives a +1 on dagger damage bumping it's damage up so it's inline with the short sword. And... I do manage to launch a fair number of daggers at the end of a turn or at the beginning of combat when I wouldn't otherwise be able to attack.
The ability to throw could be useful.
If you want to swing two big-ish swords then why not just go for scimitar or longsword and save yourself a feat?
I guess I'm just looking for something a little different. Scimitar is only a d6. It comes down to if you think spending the feat on exotic weapon gives you enough extra punch to be worth it.
Part of the reason I'm interested in a big weapon is the double-strike ability that kicks in at 9th. Allows two hits with a standard attack. At 13th you can Opp with both hands as well.
Don`t feel like `you have to` get Greater 2WF, it`s the attack least likely to hit... And there`s plenty of other Feats you can take instead, while not forcing your choice of stat investments.
You have a point about G2WF. But one more attack just sounds fun, no matter how small the chance to hit. There's a reason I have so many d20's
The most gonzo choice would be 2WFing with 2 Two Bladed Swords (as one handed weapons per their description) ;-)
Yes, dual 2-bladed swords would be gonzo...edging towards a silly place.
Anyway, what I pick will probably be influenced by which campaign I end up playing my next PC in - that's still up in the air at this point. The makeup of the party will also have an impact. If it's an urban campaign, I might go with kukri or dagger and pirahna strike for the concealability factor.
Thanks to everyone who commented :)
Go Falcata or go home. Really man. If you're talking about DW 1h weapons, take the exotic weapon proficiency and nab 2 Falcatas. Otherwise kukri.
While going for high critical range weapons and various critical feats maximizes the usefulness of the extra attacks of two-weapon fighting, a dwarf fighter (Two-Weapon Warrior) using two dwarven waraxes, with a couple levels of barbarian (Invulnerable Rager) for Fast Movement and Rage (and some DR), can be effective as well. Dwarven waraxe is a martial weapon for dwarves, which is somewhat of a wash with the human bonus feat. The Magic Resistant alternate racial trait gives the character Spell Resistance. Fast Movement + Slow and Steady helps compensate for losing Armor Training on the movement side; the DR from the Invulnerable Rager + Iron Skin feat + Defensive Flurry helps compensate on Max Dex side. At low levels, you will be doing more damage; at higher levels your DPR will be a bit less, but not a huge amount with the bonus Str from Rage (an extra +2 to attack and damage rolls, assuming Str is about the same as Dex and you didn't have to take Weapon Finesse to compensate).
15 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con (+2 race), 10 Int, 13 Wis (+2 race), 8 Cha (-2 race); 20-point buy, +1 Str at 4th level, +1 Dex at 8th level (take Improved Two-Weapon Fighting), with the rest of the advancements in Str
I like to build my characters based on concept instead of raw numbers. I keep the numbers in mind but I don't need them to be the driving force.
I built a really fun two-weapon fighter who uses two throwing axes with returning on them. I had another that used a hammer and an axe and I took the feats Bounding Hammer and Sliding Axe Throw. I have had an idea of an improvised two-weapon fighter running around in my head but I haven't put it to paper yet. In 3.5 I built a fun net and spear fighter. For simplicity, you may want to keep the weapons the same. For style, you may want to use two different weapons.
I always suggest going for the fun factor first but keep the numbers in mind. Remember that you don't have to take every two-weapon fighting feat to be an effective two-weapon fighter.
i just love the idea of dual wielding tridents, its just the idea of it that i love
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If you really want max DPR, Falcata is the way to go.
Personally, I love the idea of a TWF dagger fighter, since you can get those suckers anywhere, you can chuck em, and no one in their right mind would really worry about the guy in fullplate (or breastplate) with only a pair of daggers on his belt.
Better yet, get glamered armor, a Hat of Disguise, and poof - you're a wizard with a staff who just happens to be wearing a belt knife (or 8).
Then again, I prefer misdirection and subtlety perhaps too much.
There is something to be said for a Dual Dwarven Waraxe wielding maniac...who's gonna mess with him?
A half-orc ranger can wield a double-axe to great effect.
Since he can take the bonus feats without meeting the requirements, he can pump the majority of his points in strength without worrying about dex. When he's in a position where he cannot full-attack, he can use it as a two handed weapon to gain bigger bonuses from power attack and strength. As an added bonus, it deals 1d8 damage per end instead of the usual 1d6.
You could also go with a quarterstaff. Not as powerful, but a lot cooler!
I was just having some fun building a halfling dual wielding sling staffs (two-weapon fighter 20). His primary attack is +30/+30/+30/+25/+20/+15 (1d6+28/x3) and his secondary is +30/+25/+20 (1d6+24/x3). If he chooses, he can use rapid shot for an additional attack giving him 10 attacks in a round. He can use them in melee or as ranged attacks. With his combat reflexes (up to 10 attacks of opportunity), whip slinger, and point blank master, he has no fear of being in melee but he prefers ranged attacks. I am going to be playing in a Darksun campaign and I may want to try this out from level 1. Thanks for making me think outside the box.
I like TWF with things that can be thrown. Either throwing axe, or whatever you want if there's a rule in PF equivalent to the 3.5 'throw anything' feat.
I like TWF with things that can be thrown. Either throwing axe, or whatever you want if there's a rule in PF equivalent to the 3.5 'throw anything' feat.
It's called Throw Anything.
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You'll find a large number of opinions on this one. Which will show that there's a lot of different styles that appeal for this. Some will say that its not viable compared to weap/shield or 2-handers.
Personally i'd not worry about the weapon die size and just use kukri. Pirahna strike is power attack for light weapons. Weap finesse gives you solid hit power. Use holy, elemental burst, and raw + for base damage as well as weapon specialization. A moderate strength helps fine. (14 before str belt works well enough)
I've played that and it was fun.
If you do want the larger weapon size, i suggest scimitar(no need to spend a feat) or if you insist on a feat, the Falcata.
Someone will be along shortly to tell me i am "wrong".
Seconded. Kukris are very powerful with a fighter especially. It's not as good without lots of feats and Weapon Specialization.
Multiclass fighter ranger might be the way to go with this. I haven't look at this in a while though.
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Longsword and Club(Torch)
or
Longsword and Light Flail(Chain+Lantern)
It's not optimal but they are my favoured combo.
Very cool.
For image purposes a Bastard sword and a gauntlet (or unarmed strike). Versitile and damaging for when you have to move.
dual whip wielder, twice as good as indiana jones !