Get enemies to attack


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

Hello all,

I've been scouring the SRD for a while trying to determine whether or not there is a feat or skill check or something that could be used by a PC to entice enemies to attack them vice other PCs. I thought the feat Taunt would be what I'm looking for, but it's designed for small characters and demoralizes them where I want the enemies to attack the taunter and not be demoralized or attack other PCs.

any insight would be welcome.

r/

SoD

Liberty's Edge

Specifically as a means to get a Meleer to move a foe off a clothy and onto themselves? aka aggro management from MMOs - No as far as I have been able to determine.

However that is not to say that you cannot use other means to do this -
Off the top of my head:

An arcane caster can Charm a foe and tell them to attack the meleer instead (as long as that meleer ISNT the person doing the charming)

A Bard can use a Suggestion or Mass Suggestion performance to the same effect as can a caster who can cast these spells.

Confusion makes the confused target attack whatever hit it.

The Cavalier class can effectively make themselves the preferred target by issuing a challenge to the foe - while it doesn't force the foe to attack them, they experience penalties if they do not.

But if you are not a caster you just have to settle for making sure you are the biggest threat by your actions, or by knowing enough about your enemies culture and language that you can make up suffiently nasty comments about them that they would get angry enough to ignore greater threats and focus on you.

Remember too that the enemy is meant to be a thinking calculating creature (or what not) so unlike MMOs which are constrained by the AI using a threat table your GM should be playing the foes with the appropriate intelligence/instinct.


Bluff? Convince them you are a greater threat than the squishy unarmed guy?

Deliberately fail a diplomacy check by at least 5, so that their attitude is shifted down towards you by one step? (Is there a worse attitude than hostile?)

Convince GM that you can use intimidate to shift attitude down as well as making people friendly? (Certainly a house rule, although not an unreasonable one.)


Talk to your DM about using Intimidate/Bluff to do this. Maybe combine the two, make an Intimidate Check against their Sense Motive.

For dumb creatures and animals, looking like a threat should be enough to convince them to attack you as opposed to the guy in the back wearing a dress.

Smarter foes would see you trying to distract them, and attack the caster if it suited them.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There's the paladin spell Knight's Calling that does pretty much what you're looking for, though for only a single round. Challenge Evil is similar, but instead of compelling the target towards you, it inflicts the sickened status on it if it doesn't attack.

If you're able to cast 9th level cleric spells, you could take the Major Spell Expertise feat and cast Mark of Justice 2/day as a standard action spell-like ability.

The Stand Still feat and Step Up feat tree can be fairly effective in making your melee guy stick to the baddy in question.

Unless I've missed something though, there's nothing about the Cavalier's challenge that really gives penalties to opponents for not engaging with the Cavalier in combat, unless the Cavalier's in the order of the shield.

Silver Crusade

If you're open to 3.5 material, the Jester class(which is a sort of debuff-oriented bard) from the Dragon Compendium(by Paizo!) had exactly that as a class feature.

They could taunt an enemy into running straight towards them in the middle of battle, regardless of any obvious incoming attacks of opportunity from the jester's allies.

Yes, trolling was their class feature. ;)

Paizo Employee Developer

Strictly speaking, beyond actual compulsion/charm spells, there are no effects in the rules that will force a certain target determination. If you fight a golem, you're out of luck.

As a GM, I try to play a monster by its intelligence (or lack thereof). Smarter creatures have different goals and win conditions than less intelligent ones, and they both evaluate threats differently.

A relatively intelligent creature with some knowledge religion will recognize channel energy. If that creature has spellcraft it will use that to inform its attack decisions.

For animal intelligence creatures, they often want a meal. They'll do the opposite and start by attacking something they perceive as the least threatening (whether or not this is true). Their perception will be based on an evaluation of physical might, which is all a creature of animal int knows. If a character starts dealing hurt, and it's obvious that the character is the one doing it (an int 2 creature has no clue where that horrid wilting came from), then it will deal with that character above all others.

An intelligent monster may not want a meal at all. It may want to simply keep the PCs away from something, or kill them outright. Of course it also might want to eat them. Really smart creatures go for threats from the outset, though, not meals. Healers are targets, assuming they can be recognized as such, so too are spellcasters. If melee want to be targets they need to paint themselves as such. They need to be threats.

I ran one game where the cavalier had succumbed to blindness from blindness/deafness and there was no way to fix it before getting out of the dungeon. The dumb creatures went for him. The BBEG completely ignored him, rightly noting that he was the least threatening.

When I play a defender role, I try to go in first. By engaging a threatening creature, I make it harder for it to move to others. I am the immediate threat. I have greater trip and use it to attempt to stop movement. I do not have stand still, but that another great option. You have to be proactive in keeping a creature near you, because often they will want to eat the thing tossing fireballs. Tactics and quick thinking are your only real options, though, if you're a defender without spells.

Of course your experience will vary across GMs. Some will ignore INT scores, some will view behavior differently. The "Charge in rarr hit me I'm a target" strategy tends to work more often than not, though. If you're in the monster's face, it's more likely to use a full attack on you. I find myself doing this as a GM, too. It's just natural to want to strike back at the angry metal man hurting me.


Boasting Taunt (Ex): While raging, the barbarian can incite a creature to attack her by making an Intimidate check to demoralize. If the check succeeds, the target is also shaken as long as the barbarian is visible and raging or until it makes a melee attack against the barbarian. The barbarian receives a +2 circumstance bonus on this check for every alcoholic drink she has consumed during this rage. This is a language-dependent mind-affecting effect, and it relies on audible components. The barbarian must be at least 6th level to select this power.


Basically, d20 covers that by mechanics like AoO and challenge - both indirect approaches. The problem is: d20 is based on the idea that PCs and enemies are on the same base. If heroes can attract enemies, the enemies also can attract heroes. That would need a mechanic which can be resisted. Will save? Sounds somewhat right but then, the usual "magekillers" don't focus on wisdom (except for monks) and it's not stylish to have all these chars have a high will save.
How about, maybe in addition to challenge, something like "defend" as a move action or even free that gives you an AoO if an enemy attacks the one you defend (of course you cannot be defended while defending on your own) - think of it, it's a strong tactic! (high AC paladin defends rogue who is able to do his dangerous TWFing)

Liberty's Edge

I guess that's why I wasn't finding anything regarding that. I'll just have to position my fighter between the baddies and the squishy members of my party and prevent them from advancing. Problem I run into is the squishy members tend to win initiative and rush out in front to get smacked.

I guess I'll need to work tactics with them and allow the baddies to advance in my direction so I can trip them with my guisarme and then the squishy ones can come up and smack them while they're down and when they try to get up.

and also talk with my Pathfinder Society DM and see what effect "In Character taunting" and such will have and see if that'll influence their actions.

r/

SoD

Paizo Employee Developer

SeekerOfDragons wrote:

I guess that's why I wasn't finding anything regarding that. I'll just have to position my fighter between the baddies and the squishy members of my party and prevent them from advancing. Problem I run into is the squishy members tend to win initiative and rush out in front to get smacked.

I guess I'll need to work tactics with them and allow the baddies to advance in my direction so I can trip them with my guisarme and then the squishy ones can come up and smack them while they're down and when they try to get up.

and also talk with my Pathfinder Society DM and see what effect "In Character taunting" and such will have and see if that'll influence their actions.

r/

SoD

Yeah, it's hard in society play. That's where I have my defender. Sometimes players think they're invincible and ignore your damage soaking abilities. One strategy is to be the first to enter a room. Things tend to target you when you're first. Definitely talk strategy with them, though. Even in character it could work. Also there are plenty of players who do recognize the value of a good meat shield and are more than willing to let you play that part. Make it clear to them that that's the part you prefer to play, though.

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