A few of the PCs in our Crimson Throne game want to be vampires (using the benefits gained from friendship with The Whispering Way) and I was wondering what the changes were from 3.5?
1. Vampire PCs had a six level drop in 3.5, and in PFRPG its only a +2 CR? Can this be even sort of right? That seems extremely cheap. Particularly when, after four levels, one of those drops off... Are you SURE it's only a two level bump?
2. What about a Dhampyr who gets turned into a Vampire? Most of their racial abilities fall right off. Are they just getting less benefit for the privledge of being a vampire?
3. Has anyone ever had a vampire PC in their game as written in the PFBestiary? How did they balance?
3. Has anyone ever had a vampire PC in their game as written in the PFBestiary? How did they balance?
I once DMed a party that had a vampire PC in it. Of course it also had a Ghoul Wild Mage, Minotaur Barbarian, Quickling Thief and Drow Cleric. This was back in 2nd edition but I recall the only change we made was removing the level drain ability and making the vampire more like a Nosferatu ie blood drain via bite. As the Vampire had been a former Paladin he preferred to use a sword in battle anyway.
He had all the Vampire powers and I recall that back then creatures of certain HD could hit creatures only hit by magical weapons, +1, +2 etc so this wasn't a problem as they went up in levels, he was reduced to 0 hit points on several occasions and turned into gaseous form until he recovered.
This party quested exclusively in Undermountain in the Forgotten Realms so a lot of "issues" were avoided - sunlight, normal NPCs, etc. It was an awesome campaign as the characters had originally all started normal and got "changed". Only the Drow and Quickling were introduced as is.
I guess it depends on the type of campaign you run because surely they can't be just treated as a "normal" party?
A few of the PCs in our Crimson Throne game want to be vampires (using the benefits gained from friendship with The Whispering Way) and I was wondering what the changes were from 3.5?
1. Vampire PCs had a six level drop in 3.5, and in PFRPG its only a +2 CR? Can this be even sort of right? That seems extremely cheap. Particularly when, after four levels, one of those drops off... Are you SURE it's only a two level bump?
2. What about a Dhampyr who gets turned into a Vampire? Most of their racial abilities fall right off. Are they just getting less benefit for the privledge of being a vampire?
3. Has anyone ever had a vampire PC in their game as written in the PFBestiary? How did they balance?
They are powerful, but they also impose sever limitations. They can't do day missions, and you die at 0 HP. It is also easy to drain a lot of bad guys to get an army of vampire spawn. I don't think it is a good idea to use in an AP. One sunburst or sunbeam spell and the party is toast.
I'm definitely looking for help with the PATHFINDER vampires, not the 3.5 ones. 3.5 vamps are a +8LA. Apparently, vampires in pathfinder are considered -1- according to the rules on Monster PCs, which scares the hell out of me for the amount of stuff they get.
There are definite ways around the problems with daylight, using Ebon Eyes and Darkness/Deeper Darkness. An 7th level druid-only spell isn't much of a hazard, and sunbeam and sunburst both have reflex saves which prevent the vampire from being completely destroyed by them.
I guess the question isn't whether or not they should -play- vampires, but whether or not vampires are legally/mechanically viable as PCs with a simple +1LA with a total of 40k in bonuses to their stats (+18!), Energy Drain, DR, Fast Healing, +6 natural armor, and a host of at will abilities including Dominate Person and Summon Swarm. The DM is going to let me be a vampire but I don't want to totally wrought the system and wreck the game because I don't understand some simple part of the rules and am banging my face into a cheesegrater to make it more cheesy...
the problem is the monster rules were not explained with templates I'n mind. if the vampire wer 3 hd cr 5 it would be easy.
but the vampire is cr + 2 so lvl 7 sorcere normally cr 6 is cr 8.
personally I would just remove the energy drain and the dominate then treat them as a normal Pc and make sure there weaknesses come into play ALOT.
I would then give the Ed and dominate back at a higher level.
otherwise with full powers I'd treat them 2 levels behind other pcs then after that use the monster rules to have them slowly catch up.
As I did in a thread about werewolves a short time ago, I'd propose that you introduce a homebrew class "vampire". Applying templates mean to apply a lot of stuff in one bulk - why not give the powers away over time for the trade of levels? You could even build TWO vampire classes, the combat oriented vampire and the caster vampire. Classes solve many problems in regard to PC builds
(the first level however could still mean a great deal of powers - as a trade in for the flaws of being a vampire like blood addiction and problems with the sun, at least for pop culture vampires)
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A few of the PCs in our Crimson Throne game want to be vampires (using the benefits gained from friendship with The Whispering Way) and I was wondering what the changes were from 3.5?
1. Vampire PCs had a six level drop in 3.5, and in PFRPG its only a +2 CR? Can this be even sort of right? That seems extremely cheap. Particularly when, after four levels, one of those drops off... Are you SURE it's only a two level bump?
2. What about a Dhampyr who gets turned into a Vampire? Most of their racial abilities fall right off. Are they just getting less benefit for the privledge of being a vampire?
3. Has anyone ever had a vampire PC in their game as written in the PFBestiary? How did they balance?
Vampires don't get a level adjustment in Pathfinder. This system did away with level adjustments entirely. When you apply the vampire template to a character, it doesn't gain any additional hit dice. A 4th level fighter with 40 hit points that becomes a vampire is still only a 4th level fighter with 40 hit points. He gets several new abilities, but they are generally balanced by a lot of new weaknesses that come with it. There are workarounds, but you have to work for them. And your +2 CR is going to raise the overall ECL of the party, so the more vamps you have in your party, the tougher enemies you'll end up facing a lot sooner than you normally would.
As I did in a thread about werewolves a short time ago, I'd propose that you introduce a homebrew class "vampire". Applying templates mean to apply a lot of stuff in one bulk - why not give the powers away over time for the trade of levels? You could even build TWO vampire classes, the combat oriented vampire and the caster vampire. Classes solve many problems in regard to PC builds
(the first level however could still mean a great deal of powers - as a trade in for the flaws of being a vampire like blood addiction and problems with the sun, at least for pop culture vampires)
This is a great workaround in systems that still use LA (and in fact, I did this for several monster classes when I was running 3.5, based on suggestions in Savage Species and Libris Mortis). But it is unnecessarily cumbersome in Pathfinder, because you're preventing the characters from pursuing regular class levels in a system where LA doesn't come into play and the monster doesn't have racial hit dice. On the other hand, the no-LA system also allows for very low-level characters to become vampires (1st level, even), so it would not be unreasonable to stairstep the benefits of the template over the course of their regular class progression (regardless which classes they are progressing in). If you were to create a vampire "class" template, then it should be applied over the regular class progression rather than in place of it. For instance, if a 2nd level fighter becomes a vampire, he should gain the 1st level vampire benefits immediately, then when he goes to 3rd level fighter, he should get the normal benefits of a 3rd level fighter plus the benefits of the next level of vampire. Give it the weaker and more mundane abilities early (blood drain, some DR, some energy and channel resistance, some fast healing), with the DR, energy and channel resistance and fast healing gradually increasing their amounts until they reach max, then giving them the more powerful supernatural abilities, like energy drain and children of the night at higher levels. I'd also have their weakness to the sun become more pronounced over time, as their human constitution slowly withers away over x number of levels, rather than having them go one round then dead right out the gate. The way I did that with a vampire character was: upon becoming a vampire, one hour staggered in the sun, after that 1 hp sun damage per minute of exposure, and the damage could not be healed by any means other than blood drain or rest; 2nd vampire level, half an hour staggered, then 5 hp sun damage per minute; 3rd vampire level, 10 minutes staggered, then 1 hp per round; 4th vampire level, 1 minute staggered, then 5 hp per round; 5th vampire level, 1 round staggered, then death.
On the other hand, the no-LA system also allows for very low-level characters to become vampires (1st level, even), so it would not be unreasonable to stairstep the benefits of the template over the course of their regular class progression (regardless which classes they are progressing in).
Quick Aside: As stated by the template need to have at least 5HD to become a vampire, if not you become a vampire spawn, not a full vampire. Not to put a damper on your point, but its not possible to be a vampire at level 1.
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Quick Aside: As stated by the template need to have at least 5HD to become a vampire, if not you become a vampire spawn, not a full vampire. Not to put a damper on your point, but its not possible to be a vampire at level 1.
On the other hand, the no-LA system also allows for very low-level characters to become vampires (1st level, even), so it would not be unreasonable to stairstep the benefits of the template over the course of their regular class progression (regardless which classes they are progressing in).
True. I should have remarked on the difference. I suppose the concept of gradually advancing the vampire is already present in the vampire spawn, assuming that a vampire spawn becomes a full vampire upon reaching 5th level.
I've been working on my own solution to this very problem (it also, incidentally, allows for lower level vampire NPCs). I also try to provide rules for variant vampires.
It's very incomplete, but maybe some people will find this useful, or have some suggestions.
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My DM seems to agree with you, oh wise and eager MagiRodent. She's been working on a tone-down to strip the extreme power of the vampire out and dole it back in little teaspoons.
It boils down to a list of basic starting advantages, a one level penalty (skip the next level you would go up), and then -long- ass lists of options to pick up for each hit-die you have above 4. You basically start as a very strong vampire spawn, then gain abilities to bring you up to par with regular vampires around Level 12 or 15.... but you may be built entirely differently by then.
Have you tested any of that, Nightwish, or read anything to the contrary, or is that just rational thinking? I'd love to get away with a no-penalty vampire just because I joined the Whispering Way, got to level 7 with huge bonuses to my faction score, and then spent a mere 5CPA for the benefit...
Jeff, your PDF makes my eyes bleed a little bit, but I went over it with my GM while we were formatting this little (oh.. my.. god... huge...) blurb for the forum. We're actually fairly close here, except without the 'racial prestige class' mix-in.
Creating a Vampire"Vampire" is an acquired template that can be added to any living creature with 5 or more Hit Dice (referred to hereafter as the base creature). Most vampires were once humanoids, fey, or monstrous humanoids. A vampire uses the base creature's stats and abilities except as noted here. The change is extremely painful and takes 1d4+1 days, during which no spell, magic item, or natural ability can reverse the process, though dispel evil or remove curse can immediately slay the vampire-to-be.
CR: Same as the base creature +2.
AL: Any non-good.
Type: The creature's type changes to undead (augmented). Do not recalculate class Hit Dice, BAB, or saves.
Senses: A vampire gains darkvision 60 ft. Light blindness (as blindness for the first round of exposure, as light sensitivity thereafter).
Armor Class: Natural armor improves by +2.
Hit Dice: Change all racial Hit Dice to d8s. Class Hit Dice are unaffected. As undead, vampires use their Charisma modifier to determine bonus hit points (instead of Constitution).
Defensive Abilities: A vampire gains channel resistance +4, DR 5/silver, and resistance to cold 10 and electricity 10, in addition to all of the defensive abilities granted by the undead type. A vampire also gains fast healing 2. If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, a vampire's fast healing ceases to function, and it becomes helpless until it has rested for an hour in its coffin. It regains 1 hit point after this hour, then is no longer helpless and its fast healing resumes normal functioning.
Weaknesses: Varies. Reducing a vampire's hit points to 0 or lower incapacitates it but doesn't destroy it. Two methods reliably slay vampires. Fist, each round of immersion in running water inflicts damage on a vampire equal to one-third of its maximum hit points. A vampire reduced to 0 hit points in this manner is destroyed. Driving a wooden stake through a helpless vampire's heart instantly slays it (either as a full-round action, or by a critical hit with a wooden weapon). However, it returns to life if the stake is removed, unless the head is also severed and anointed with holy water.
The Thirst: At noon each day, a vampire loses 1d4 Wisdom if it has not consumed the life force of another living creature of its type during the last 24 hours. Blood Drain is the most traditional method of doing this, but others exist, including the supernatural ability Energy Drain and spells such as Channelled Necrotic Siphon.
Creature of the Night: During daylight hours a vampire is fatigued. Direct sunlight causes no actual damage, but inflicts two negative levels, which last until the vampire is no longer exposed.
Eternal Slumber: Unlike most other Undead, vampires do require rest. A vampire must trance (in the manner of an elf) for twelve hours a day. Rest during the day is doubly effective, meaning that vampire need only rest six hours a day if those resting hours are during daylight.
Speed: Same as the base creature. If the base creature has a swim speed, the vampire is not unduly harmed by running water.
Melee: A vampire gains a slam attack if the base creature didn't have one. Damage for the slam depends on the vampire's size (see pages 301-302 of the Pathfinder Bestiary). Its natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Special Abilities: A vampire gains several special attacks. Save DCs are equal to 10 + 1/2 vampire's HD + vampire's Cha modifier unless otherwise noted, and caster level is equal to the vampire's total HD.
Blood Drain (Su): A vampire can suck blood from a pinned opponent; when the vampire establishes or maintains a pin, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution damage. If at full health, every round of drinking heals 1d4 Wisdom damage caused by thirst. Otherwise, each round of drinking heals the vampire 2d4 hit points. Only living creatures of the vampire's own type can be blood drained.
Special Qualities: A vampire gains the following.
Shadowless (Ex): A vampire casts no shadows and shows no reflection in a mirror.
Ability Scores: A vampire gains either Str +6, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4 (as per the traditional vampire), or Str +4, Dex +2, Int +4, Wis +6, Cha +2 (as per the Nosferatu). As an undead creature, a vampire has no Constitution score.
Skills: Vampires gain a +4 racial bonus on Bluff, Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth checks.
Additionally, a vampire may choose special abilities from the following list equal to its total Hit Dice minus 4. For each special ability chosen, a weakness must be chosen from that list. With each Hit Die gained thereafter, another ability and weakness may be added. Once chosen, these abilities and weaknesses may not be changed, but a vampire may choose to 'buy off' a Weakness instead of taking a new Ability when it gains a Hit Die. Exception: A dhampir may choose one additional Ability (without choosing an accompanying weakness) upon acquiring the vampire template. (Note: this last bit is to make up for the fact that dhampir racial features are all weaker versions of vampire racial features, and they do not stack. Without some sort of specific benefit, dhampir vampires are notably weaker than vampires of any other base race! A vampire dwarf would be pretty damn cool.)
Abilities
Adaptation (Ex): Choose two of the following damage resistances, which replace the vampire's current damage resistance: Magic, silver, good, wood, piercing. (You may not choose silver and wood).
Animalism (Su): The vampire may exert control over bats, cats, rats, wolves or spiders, as per Charm Animal, 3/day.
Celerity (Ex): The vampire gains the Run feat. It may also gain the effects of the Haste spell for a number of rounds per day equal to its Hit Dice. This ability can be activated as a swift action and ended as a free action. Rounds do not need to be consecutive.
Children of the Night (Su): Once per day, a vampire can call forth 1d6+1 rat swarms, 1d4+1 bat swarms, or 2d6 wolves as a standard action. These creatures arrive in 2d6 rounds, and serve the vampire for up to 1 hour.
Claws of the Vampire King (Su): A creature hit by a vampire's natural weapon gains two negative levels. A successful Fortitude save halves this. This ability can trigger no more often than once a round. Prerequisite: Energy Drain.
Create Spawn (Su): If a vampire kills a creature of its own base subtype with its blood drain, the victim rises from death as a full vampire in 1d4+1 days. If the victim is a humanoid or monstrous humanoid but not of the same subtype, it instead rises as a vampire spawn. The created progeny is strongly inclined but not compelled to obey its creator: it must make a Will save to disobey a direct order, but will not go out of its way to anticipate wishes. The total Hit Dice of a vampire's progeny may not exceed its own, but do not contribute to any other measure of controlling undead.
Daywalker (Ex): The vampire is not fatigued during the daytime, and does not receive negative levels when in direct sunlight.
Dominate (Su): As per the spell Dominate Person, 2/day. The total number of people you have Dominated at any one time may not exceed your Charisma modifier. Prerequisite: Presence.
Energy Drain (Su): A creature hit by a vampire's natural weapon gains two negative levels. A successful Fortitude save negates this. This ability can trigger no more often than once a round. Prerequisite: Enervating Touch.
Enervating Touch (Su): A creature hit by a vampire's natural weapon gains one negative level. A successful Fortitude save negates this. This ability can trigger no more often than once a round. Prerequisite: Weakening Touch.
Faster Healing (Ex): The vampire's fast healing raises to 5.
Feral Possession (Su): A vampire may possess any animal within 100 feet (as per Magic Jar, except that it does not require a receptacle). The target must make a Will save or be possessed. This happens instantly if the vampire is reduced to 0 hit points and not already staked, and there is an animal within range. If the possession fails the vampire immediately dies. If the possession succeeds, the animal immediately retreats to the vampire's place of rest. If left uninterrupted for 1d4+1 days, the animal transforms into a new vampire with all the same statistics and memories as the original. If discovered and slain during this time, both the animal and the vampire spirit are destroyed. Special: Feral Possession is a Breed Ability. A vampire may have only one Breed Ability. Prerequisite: Feral Stalker.
Feral Stalker (Su): A vampire can change shape at will to assume the form of a dire bat or wolf, as beast shape II.
Flight (Ex): The vampire gains a fly speed of 40, and perfect maneuverability. Prerequisite: Spider Climb.
Fortitude (Ex): The vampire's damage resistance rises to 10/silver.
Gifts of the Night (Ex): The vampire gains two of the following feats: Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Toughness. Special: This ability can be selected up to three times.
Greater Awareness (Su): The vampire gains blindsense, and may use See Invisibility a number of times per day equal to its Wisdom modifier. Prerequisite: Improved Awareness.
Greater Spawn (Su): The vampire may create a number of progeny equal to its own Hit Dice. This ability functions as Create Spawn except that the progeny is never a spawn, regardless of its original subtype, and no single progeny may have more than the vampire's Hit Dice minus three. The 5 HD minimum for any vampire still applies, which means the vampire must have at least 8 HD before this ability becomes useful. Prerequisite: Create Spawn.
Horrid visage (Ex): At the mere sight of the vampire's face, any viewer must succeed on a Will save or be paralyzed with fear for 1d4 rounds. Whether or not the save is successful, that creature cannot be affected again by the same vampire's horrid visage for 24 hours.
Hypnotic Gaze (Su): The vampire gains Hypnotism as an active gaze attack. Prerequisite: Mesmerizing Voice.
Improved Awareness (Su): The vampire gains Ebon Eyes at will, and may use Detect Alignment a number of times per day equal to its WIsdom modifier. Prerequisite: Lesser Awareness.
Lesser Awareness (Ex): The vampire gains Low Light vision, Darkvision to 120ft, and the Scent ability.
Master of Beasts (Su): The vampire's influence over dumb beasts grows to encompass all animals, as per Dominate Animal, 3/day. Prerequisite: Animalism.
Mastermind (Su): The vampire chooses one of the following three abilities: clairaudience, clairvoyance, or telepathy. Depending on the ability chosen, the vampire can hear what its progeny hears, see what it sees, or communicate telepathically with it. The vampire may exercise or end its use of this ability as a standard action, and maintain its connection to its progeny for as long as it wishes. A vampire may only use this ability with one spawn at a time, regardless of how many spawn it has. The vampire and vampire spawn must be on the same plane for this ability to function. While using this ability, the vampire enters a catatonic state similar to its daily rest and is treated as helpless, though it is alerted to any jarring noises, the presence of any visible creature within 5 feet, or any damage that befalls its body. Prerequisite: Create Spawn.
Mesmerising Voice (Su): A vampire can enthral others with its voice at will, as per Fascinate.
Mist Form (Su): A vampire can assume gaseous form at will (as per Gaseous Form, caster level 5th). It can remain gaseous indefinitely, and has a fly speed of 20 feet with perfect maneuverability. This form is instantly assumed if the vampire is reduced to 0 hit points and not already staked. Special: Mist Form is a Breed Ability. A vampire may only have one Breed Ability. Prerequisite: Feral Stalker.
Noble Dead (Su): A vampire with this ability possesses an ancient and legendary bloodline. It gains +2 bonus on all Diplomacy checks, which increases to +4 if being used against another undead creature. Additionally, its racial bonus to Bluff, Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth checks rises to +6, its channel resistance increases by +2, and the DC of all mind-affecting abilities increases by +2. Special: This ability must be chosen when the template is acquired.
Presence (Su): As per the spell Charm Person, 2/day.
Resilience (Ex): The vampire's natural armor increases by +4.
Swarm Form (Su): As a standard action a vampire can change into a swarm of bats, centipedes, rats, or spiders. The swarm has the same number of hit points as the vampire, and any damage done to the swarm affects it. While in swarm form the vampire cannot use any of your natural or special attacks, though it gains the natural weapons and extraordinary special attacks of the swarm it transformed into. The vampire also retains all of its usual special qualities. While in swarm form, the vampire is still considered to be an undead creature with its total number of Hit Dice. It can remain in swarm form until it assumes another form, retakes its original form as a standard action, or until the next sunrise. This form is instantly assumed if the vampire is reduced to 0 hit points and not already staked. Special: Swarm Form is a Breed Ability. A vampire may only have one Breed Ability. Prerequisite: Feral Stalker.
Spider Climb (Ex): A vampire can climb sheer surfaces as though under the effects of a spider climb spell.
Telepathy (Su): A vampire can communicate telepathically with any creature within 60 feet that speaks the same languages.
Telekinesis (Su): As a standard action, a vampire can use Telekinesis.
That Awful Grip (Ex): If both claw attacks hit the same opponent, the vampire may instantly add rend damage (1d6+Str-and-a-half). Prerequisite: Wicked Claws.
Weakening Touch (Su): A creature hit by a vampire's natural weapon gains one negative level for a number of rounds equal to the vampire's Charisma modifier. A successful Fortitude save negates this. This ability can trigger no more often than once a round.
Wicked Claws (Ex): The vampire's slam attack is replaced by two claw attacks (1d6+Str).
Wicked Teeth (Ex): The vampire gains a bite attack, and its Blood Drain ability becomes more effective, dealing 1d6 Constitution damage per round, and either healing the vampire 2d6 points of damage, or restoring 1d6 Wisdom damage earned by not feeding. Prerequisite: Wicked Claws.
Unnatural Aura (Su): Wild, domesticated and trained animals can sense the vampire's unnatural presence at a distance of 30ft. No animal will willingly approach nearer than that, and a DC20 Handle Animal check is required each round to prevent the animal from panicking while within the aura. An animal without a handler does not get a save, and will instantly panic and flee.
Weaknesses
Ailing: The vampire cannot tolerate the scent of garlic. It cannot approach within five feet of a whole clove or within 10 feet of crushed garlic. There is a 10% chance that any given person will have eaten garlic recently enough that the scent of it on their breath gives the vampire a -6 to all social interactions with them, and prevents the vampire from feeding on them.
Baneful: The vampire cannot feed from, nor use any of of its supernatural powers against a person who is blessed by a cleric, nor pass through any doorway that has been anointed with holy water.
Buried: The vampire must spend its twelve hours rest in the soil of its homeland. On each day it fails to do this, it loses access to another of its vampiric abilities, randomly determined. Resting again in its home soil completely restores all lost abilities.
Exiled by Erastil: If the vampire does not otherwise have DR/wood, it gains it. If it does have DR/wood, wooden weapons deal an extra 1d6 damage. The touch of living plants deals 1d6 damage to the vampire.
Flammable: The vampire gains vulnerability to fire.
Grip of Sarenrae: While the sun is up, the vampire gains the dead condition. If nothing else gives it the dead condition during this time, the dead condition is removed when the sun goes down.
Grotesque: The vampire looks completely unnatural. It takes a -10 penalty to any positive social interaction, including all uses of Diplomacy.
Impious: Any holy symbol of a good deity is anathema to the vampire. It is highly reluctant to approach one, or a building or person displaying one. After one round, it may overcome its revulsion of the object and function normally (including attacking the bearer) with a DC 25 Will save each round. Failure in this will save means it recoils, and must stay at least 5 feet away. If a believer presents a holy symbol, the vampire treats this as a Cause Fear spell, Will save DC 25 to resist. Normal immunities to fear do not apply in this instance, though bonuses and modifiers do. This effect is supernatural and not sight-dependent. A vampire cannot ignore the presence of a holy symbol by closing its eyes or casting a darkness spell.
Impure: The vampire cannot cross a line of salt, and the touch of salt burns like holy water, dealing 2d4 points of damage per round of contact.
Judgement of Sarenrae: On the vampire's first round of exposure to direct sunlight, it is staggered. On its second round, it explodes. And dies. Until it is dead.
Necrophyte: Any living humanoid or monstrous humanoid creature the vampire kills with a supernatural or extraordinary vampiric ability raises in 1d4 hours as an uncontrollable zombie unless blessed and properly buried. These zombies automatically pass any saving throw against any effect that would control or halt them.
Pestilent Aura: All creatures that come within 5 feet of the vampire must make a Fort save to resist contracting a given disease. This disease must be chosen when acquiring this ability, and cannot thereafter be changed. It must be a disease that the vampire was exposed to in life. Any creature that successfully saves against the pestilent aura cannot be affected by the aura of that same vampire for 24 hours.
Pharasma's Bann: The vampire cannot voluntarily cross running water - neither by swimming, nor by bridge, nor by flying above, nor by passing under it through a tunnel. Being forced to do so sends the vampire into a catatonic state for 1d3 hours. The water must be freely running in a natural channel and relatively free of contamination for this restriction to apply - shaped, unnatural or contaminated water such as runoff from a rain gutter, a decanter of endless water, or the sewers of a city cause it no problems.
Rejection of Abadar: The vampire cannot touch gold without being burned, as a direct hit from a flask of acid.
Scorned: No matter what, you can be determined as a vampire with a DC 12 perception check. Neither mundane nor magical disguises can obfuscate the taint of undeath that surrounds you.
Selective: The vampire can only repair the wisdom damage from the Thirst using victim is of its own subtype, regardless of the means by which it does so.
Sensitive: The vampire is enthralled by music. It will not willingly enter a building where music is being played, nor approach within thirty feet of the source of music. If music is played within thirty feet of the vampire, it must make a will save with the DC equal to the Perform check of the musician/s.
Wrath of Shelyn: The sound of bells ringing causes the vampire damage as if it were an object targeted by Shatter. Treat this as caster level 1 if an ordinary bell (such as a shop bell), caster level 3 if a bell rung in celebration (such as to herald a royal birth), and caster level 5 if a church or temple bell. This effect is supernatural in nature, and cannot be blocked by silence spells or more mundane means such as stuffing its ears with wax.
Unnatural: The vampire cannot enter an area where flowers are growing or where fresh-cut flowers are displayed, nor feed on anyone wearing a fresh flower.
Unshriven: The vampire cannot bear the sight of its own lack of reflection. It must succeed on a DC 20 Will save to enter an area where a mirror or any reflective surface is visible, even the rough reflective surface of a wet cavern wall, or an opponent's shield. This effect is sight-dependent - shattering a mirror, turning it away from the vampire or draping material over it allows the vampire to enter the area.
Unwelcome: The vampire cannot enter a private home or dwelling unless invited in by someone with the authority to do so.
She says this is all Work in Progress type stuff, and she's very very eager to hear more on it. We tried to stick to RAW and Paizo Formatting as much as possible.
...My DM seems to agree with you, oh wise and eager MagiRodent. She's been working on a tone-down to strip the extreme power of the vampire out and dole it back in little teaspoons.
It boils down to a list of basic starting advantages, a one level penalty (skip the next level you would go up), and then -long- ass lists of options to pick up for each hit-die you have above 4. You basically start as a very strong vampire spawn, then gain abilities to bring you up to par with regular vampires around Level 12 or 15.... but you may be built entirely differently by then.
Have you tested any of that, Nightwish, or read anything to the contrary, or is that just rational thinking? I'd love to get away with a no-penalty vampire just because I joined the Whispering Way, got to level 7 with huge bonuses to my faction score, and then spent a mere 5CPA for the benefit...
Jeff, your PDF makes my eyes bleed a little bit, but I went over it with my GM while we were formatting this little (oh.. my.. god... huge...) blurb for the forum. We're actually fairly close here, except without the 'racial prestige class' mix-in.
** spoiler omitted **
Thanks for the insight (and the ideas I may have to borrow). I was trying to make the character at the appropriate CR (7) by the time they reached 5th level, and attach a partial XP cost to the additional abilities without forcing the character to wait.
Ultimately I decided the Dhampir pretty much does what I want a 1st level vampire to do without the crippling disadvantages. I have considered, however, house-ruling that Dhampirs, if they die and are not resurrected or given the proper rites, automatically become vampires...
But it is unnecessarily cumbersome in Pathfinder, because you're preventing the characters from pursuing regular class levels in a system where LA doesn't come into play and the monster doesn't have racial hit dice.
Basically I WANT them for pursuing regular class levels - the abilities they get from being a vampire should compensate that easily. Problem with the flaws of vampires is, you can avoid situations where they come into play (like fighting at night) which means they are very situational (well, stuff like smite evil and favored enemy is situational too) - if they gain both, vampire stuff and regular class stuff, the balance relies only on the situational effects
Furthermore, I see being a vampire as some kind of filling "job", while a ranger concentrates about nature stuff and a bard concentrates on singing, they concentrate on just using their vampire powers - and the vampire powers can be huge, alone the shapeshifting stuff of vampires like changing to fierce wolves, scouty bats and a fog that can cloud a whole village, or calling rats or delivering diseases, mind enchantments, superhuman strength, senses and dexterity... (and all of that progressing)Since it would cripple casters a lot to switch to the vampire class, I'd introduce the vampire caster class which functions like a prestige caster class, granting caster levels of another class (maybe even full progression)
...My DM seems to agree with you, oh wise and eager MagiRodent. She's been working on a tone-down to strip the extreme power of the vampire out and dole it back in little teaspoons.
It boils down to a list of basic starting advantages, a one level penalty (skip the next level you would go up), and then -long- ass lists of options to pick up for each hit-die you have above 4. You basically start as a very strong vampire spawn, then gain abilities to bring you up to par with regular vampires around Level 12 or 15.... but you may be built entirely differently by then.
Have you tested any of that, Nightwish, or read anything to the contrary, or is that just rational thinking? I'd love to get away with a no-penalty vampire just because I joined the Whispering Way, got to level 7 with huge bonuses to my faction score, and then spent a mere 5CPA for the benefit...
Jeff, your PDF makes my eyes bleed a little bit, but I went over it with my GM while we were formatting this little (oh.. my.. god... huge...) blurb for the forum. We're actually fairly close here, except without the 'racial prestige class' mix-in.
** spoiler omitted **
Claws of the Vampire King and Energy Drain abilities both have the exact same description, other than Energy Drain being a prereq for Claws.
1. Thanks for the insight (and the ideas I may have to borrow). I was trying to make the character at the appropriate CR (7) by the time they reached 5th level, and attach a partial XP cost to the additional abilities without forcing the character to wait.2. Ultimately I decided the Dhampir pretty much does what I want a 1st level vampire to do without the crippling disadvantages. I have considered, however, house-ruling that Dhampirs, if they die and are not resurrected or given the proper rites, automatically become vampires...
1. We mined Vyrolokas, Nosferatu, and Vampire from the Council of Thieves, Curse of the Crimson Throne, and Bestiary respectively. Then we mined through the Fang and Fury sourcebook by Green Ronin games, and the Libris Mortis sourcebook from WotC. She's still going to charge us the 'phantom level' that all 5HD creatures that get the template need to pay out, which means always being one level behind, but... well... Who can complain with DR 5/Silver and Fast Healing 2, a +1 to hit, damage, all saves, and spell save DCs and bonus spells at LEAST!? The power of the character slowly creeps with time.
2. Three words for you: Le, Gen, (hope you're not lactose intolerant because) Dairy. Fits with the themeliness of the race and with the vampire legends of the man buried without proper rights and the stillborn child buried without baptism.
...
Claws of the Vampire King and Energy Drain abilities both have the exact same description, other than Energy Drain being a prereq for Claws.
One key word difference. Negates =/= Halves
Claws of the Vampire King is MORE POWERFUL than the standard energy drain.
Natural Weapons Ranger; Dhampir; Vampire; L7 = OMFGBBQWTHDUDE!? *LEVELDRAIN* -dies-...
Check out the Liber Vampyr by Necromancers of the Northwest for lots of PF vampire goodness. (Also available at here at paizo though Steps of the Sanguine Path is not)
Liber Vampyr: Secrets of the Blood
This sourcebook for the 3.5 OGL and the Pathfinder® Roleplaying Game is intended for mature audiences and provides players and DMs with guidelines and rules which bring vampires to life in a way fantasy roleplaying games have never done before. Included are rules that make vampire characters more accessible to players, as well as broadening the different styles of vampire available. Finally, the book contains an all new rules system which drives home the vampire’s hunger for blood, and will make your players see the game in a whole new way.
Steps of the Sanguine Path
This additional supplement is intended for DMs only, and provides information about the steps of the Sanguine Path, an ancient and forgotten ritual which allows a Vampire Disciple to gain the benefits of the vampire template. We can't stop players from downloading and reading it, too, but know that reading the information contained in this supplement may take the fun out of playing a Vampire Disciple, so read at your own risk.[/url]
I always thought if you were below a certain level you became vampire spawn, and could only be a vampire if you were changed above a certain level?
I always thought if you were below a certain level you became vampire spawn, and could only be a vampire if you were changed above a certain level?
That's what I was sort of simulating with my draft rules. Less than 5 hit dice = equal to vampire spawn; greater than = vampire. I had to play with the point costs for the powers for a long time to get that right.
They could simply become vampire spawn. Vampire spawn are similar to vampires except considerably weaker then their sires. They keep dominate and energy drain but they lose their spawn creating abilities, among other things, and no, the vampire can choose to either transform you into a full vampire or vampire spawn.
I love how often thread necromancy seems tied to IG necromancy...