Idea for a paladin dragonslayer?


Advice

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Daveth Ashvale wrote:
Mahorfeus wrote:

Paladins are not always the champions of deities. They certainly can be, but in Pathfinder, they are more importantly bound to a code of lawfulness and good.

Heck, according to her AP stats, Seelah is an Atheist.

Are you sure about that? She looks like a Paladin of Iomedae to me as well as her Wiki entry backing that up.

http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Seelah

My mistake. Her stats in Skeletons of Scarwall refer to her as an Atheist, but I think it is a typo - Ezren is the Atheist in the group. Don't know why I didn't catch that before, it even mentions that she has religious arguments with him, if I remember right. Even asks for Iomedae's aid against the desert worm.


Umbral Reaver wrote:
The good (and maybe neutral) dragons in my setting invented banks. People give you money to sit on. How awesome is that?

Hahahahahahaha


Dabbler wrote:

I think there is some confusion over good-aligned dragons.

Are good aligned dragons selfish? No, they are (from their perspective at least) altruistic.

Are good aligned dragons greedy? Yes, although they probably wouldn't use that word. Good dragons do not love money for it's own sake, but for beauty. The hoard of a good dragon will have less coinage and more works of art than an evil one.

Good and Evil are not relative in PF, they are absolute. You're either absolutely altruistic, (not just from your perspective) or you're not. If you are, you're probably good. If you're not, you might sneak into good because of your other good traits, but you're probably neutral.

On the subject altruism, the true test is whose interest do you serve when it comes to making the tough decisions. If you act in another creature's best interest only when it's also in your best interest, that's not altruism.

If the dragon acts in his country's best interest even when it hurts him in someway, then he's good. If he acts in his own best interest even when it hurts the country, then he's evil. If he does neither of those things, then he's neutral.

Umbral Reaver wrote:
The good (and maybe neutral) dragons in my setting invented banks. People give you money to sit on. How awesome is that?

That is a very Awesome idea! Consider it stolen :D

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

maybe it's me... but isn't Dragonslaying pretty much built into the Paladin as it is out of the box? The Paladin dominates in a dragon encounter as it is... I don't think that this role needs to be min-maxed even more.

Sovereign Court

Time, I suppose for the actual DM in question to speak. I knew this thread was out here, but hadn't read it. I want to clear up at least a couple of questions. It might help give better feedback to the player posting here.
#1) Why do they only worship Dragons.
The world in this setting is pretty young, about 20,000 years. All of the gods were born from a pair of LG and CE gods. Those 2 happened to be Dragons(Yeah, they gave birth to the world, too). The god children they gave birth to are all Dragons. There are some "loons" out there that have formed cults where they worship gods that aren't in the dragon pantheon. In some places they are outlawed, in others they are looked down on. Either way, they don't have big places of worship out in the open, and aren't accepted by the general populace. I gave PC's the choice of following one of those, if they preferred, or following a god in the pantheon, as I didn't want to limit them that way. I have not indicated where the clerics of the "cult" gods get their powers, whether it is from some cosmic concept, or if it is one of the pantheon gods delivering spells for a worshiper who is really following him/her in another guise.
#2) Are the Good Dragons as petty as indicated.
No. They are a bit greedy and like pretty things, but if they didn't claim the lands, and the humans/elves/orcs on them they would be claimed by an evil dragon, so it is better this way. There is more to it all, and reasons why things came to be as they are, but human history doesn't tend to have the longevity of the dragon's experiences so the party will have to discover some things for themselves.
#3) Is it OK to kill the good Dragons?
I've worked on the setting to allow a campaign where PCs could have numerous dragon encounters and could even choose to kill good dragons if they so desired. It was something the players have been asking for. It wasn't designed to give an easy excuse for Paladins to go around killing good dragons though. That said, some dragons in the game have fallen/been redeemed, so there will be some opportunity with the full spectrum of dragons, but most will fit into the normal alignments/mannerisms for their type.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
maybe it's me... but isn't Dragonslaying pretty much built into the Paladin as it is out of the box? The Paladin dominates in a dragon encounter as it is... I don't think that this role needs to be min-maxed even more.

Evil dragons yes. The OP has contended that good and neutral dragons could become targets to. I think this creates a paradox in that the dragon must either not actually be good, or the paladin must not be a paladin.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dabbler wrote:
LazarX wrote:
maybe it's me... but isn't Dragonslaying pretty much built into the Paladin as it is out of the box? The Paladin dominates in a dragon encounter as it is... I don't think that this role needs to be min-maxed even more.
Evil dragons yes. The OP has contended that good and neutral dragons could become targets to. I think this creates a paradox in that the dragon must either not actually be good, or the paladin must not be a paladin.

Then it sounds like ll that needs to be done is one change, open up the smite to all dragonkind and you are done. Alignment issues are the paladin's problem, or just remove the good alignment from all dragons.


#3) Is it OK to kill the good Dragons?
I've worked on the setting to allow a campaign where PCs could have numerous dragon encounters and could even choose to kill good dragons if they so desired. It was something the players have been asking for. It wasn't designed to give an easy excuse for Paladins to go around killing good dragons though. That said, some dragons in the game have fallen/been redeemed, so there will be some opportunity with the full spectrum of dragons, but most will fit into the normal alignments/mannerisms for their type.

The PC's doing something like that is one thing. (its a little dark, you're offing a good sentient creature that's runnning a realm) but that solution should be off the table entirely for a paladin, and that's going to cause some conflict with the group if they want the dragon dead.

Mind you, it sounds like even if you only kill the evil ones you've got enough for a long campaign....

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Killing good creatures just because you've got special skills or a mandate to kill them for no other reason than that they are those creature types is still an evil act.

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