OK, after much trolling and searching the threads, this is my proposed changes for the final gunslinger version. PLEASE feel free to comment and make additional suggestion.
Notes on the Gunslinger v.2 – Gunslinger Reloaded
First off, thank you for allowing all of us to be part of the creation process. It’s great to see a lot of the ideas posted in the “Respect the Dill Pickles”, “Gunslinger Review – Gunslinger, Guns, Core Classes (Multi-Part)”, and “Gunslinger Alpha Version” threads, among others.
Love the new description, and that the gunslinger has become a full-fledged “class” instead of an alternate to the fighter class.
Glad to see you have added Perception, Sleight of Hand, and Survival to the skills list. Not sure if 2 + Int per level for ranks will cut it. I still think she needs to have 4 + Int. The Playtest will prove or foil that assumption.
Staying with the medium and light armor is good, and the simple and martial weapons. Nevermind, Stephen said he’ll only have light armor. Doesn’t mean he can’t get mithral chain or mithral breastplate.
“At 1st level, a gunslinger gains one of the following firearms of her choice: blunderbuss, musket, or pistol.”
I think it’s great that you’ve added blunderbuss to the choices, it adds to the flavor building of a particular character. Again, more options at 1st level are good.
“Her starting weapon is battered, and only she knows how to use it properly. All other creatures treat her gun as if it had the broken condition. If it already has the broken condition, it does not work at all for others.”
Very similar to, but better than what was written in the Gunslinger v.1.4.0. pdf linked to the “Gunsliger Alpha Version” thread. I think this works well by granting the gunslinger her firearms, but preventing them from being usable by others. I trust “broken for others” means that no matter what, even if a non-gunslinger uses the mending spell, it never functions properly for anyone, even other gunslingers, but only for the owner gunslinger.
“This starting weapon can only be sold for scrap (it’s worth 4d10 gold pieces when sold). The gunslinger also gains Gunsmithing as a bonus feat.”
Awesome! This total takes care of the reselling issue of the gunslinger’s starter firearms, and allows the gunslinger to be the expert with firearms.
By gaining the Gunsmithing feat for free, the gunslinger can upgrade her rusty firearms to masterwork after paying the costs of masterwork weapons and putting in some work. That’s great! However, I think the Gunsmithing feat should require some Prerequisites for those who are not gunslingers, such as the Amateur Gunslinger feat, ranks in the Craft skill (alchemy or firearms), levels in the Alchemist class, etc. Otherwise, some will take it and start crafting guns for profit.
Also, I would suggest the following be added to the Gunsmith feature.
“ Over time, the gunslinger becomes intimately familiar with the unique traits and nuances of her selected firearm. Beginning at 1st level, as a standard action, the gunslinger can perform a quick clear maneuver to remove the broken condition from a single firearm she is currently wielding, as long as that condition was gained by a firearm misfire. The gunslinger can perform this maneuver as a move-equivalent action at 3rd level, and as a swift action at 5th level.
Additionally, through research and experimentation, the gunslinger has learned how to improve and maintain her firearm’s reliability. At 7th level, the gunslinger can permanently lower her firearm’s misfire value by 1 (minimum 1). At 9th level, whenever the gunslinger rolls a misfire with a gun that has the broken condition, she can keep the gun from exploding, though it retains the broken condition. At 11th level, the gunslinger can again lower her firearm’s misfire value by 1 (minimum 0). However, this improvement to her firearm does not affect the chance of misfire of paper alchemical cartridges.”
Since the gunslinger is a designer, builder, and improver of firearms, it makes logical sense they should be able to do the following without use of magic, or wasting a deed. Level requirements take care of the experience and learning curve as how to do it. I’ve also combined the Expert Loader deed with the Gunsmith class feature. I really think it should be because of his expert knowledge of her own firearm that she knows how to prevent it from exploding when broken, just like she’s the only one that can use it properly, as stated in the first part of this feature, and it just seems to be a natural extension of his Gunsmith knowledge. Might be other things related to this feature too as I go through it.
I like your changes with how to regain grit, makes it easier to do when it’s every time you confirm a critical hit or deal a killing blow. Although, it still may be too little. We’ll see. I think the Daring Acts option may need to be reinserted as part of the official grit recharge mechanic, and the Killan Enemy made into the option. I still don’t think grit=Wis modifier is good. I still think it should be ½ level + Wis or Cha, that way it scales with level, just like a monk’s Ki pool. The higher level you are, the more grit you SHOULD have, because you’ve survived, become more renowned, and, well, that’s just how it should work. So many other classes have things that scale level-wise. Grit is one of their core abilities, it shouldn’t be nerfed to Wis modifier only. Or have it they can increase it Grit a max of ½ level + Wis, but start each day with Wis modifier. 2 grit points (Wis 14) at 1st level isn’t too bad, but only 5 grit (Wis 20) at 18th level isn’t good, especially when they should be daring, gritty, heavy-duty gunslingers by that level and will need to rely on girt more.
Another option is for the gunslinger to start each day with grit equal to her Wis modifier, but be allowed to earn a max daily grit equal to ½ her level + her Wis modifier. The next morning she begins again with just her Wis modifier. This would allow her to earn extra grit by performing daring deeds and anything else she can do to regain grit. It would also have no effect on the Extra Grit feat, since it still increases her min grit per day by 2. The more I think about it, I like this option better, but the first is good too. Decisions, decisions...
Each day the gunslinger starts with grit = to her Wis modifier, but can earn up to a max of ½ gunslinger level + Wis modifier. The next day it drops back down to only her Wis modifier. This minimum/maximum can be increased by the Extra Grit feat. This would encourage players to do daring deeds and such to jack up their grit for the day.
Love the explanation for incorporating firearms in your campaign. Allows the DM/players to decide where they want firearms to fit in. Options are always the way to go. I personally like somewhere between “Emerging Guns” and “Commonplace Guns” myself, especially if the Alchemist class is readily available.
I like the idea that deeds aren’t selected anymore, and you just gain them as parts of the Deed class feature at their allotted levels. However, on the downside, this really restricts different builds for the PCs. Now they just need to do it with feats and firearm choices.
It looks like you combined the progression and some of the innovation ideas from the Gunslinger v.1.4.0. The deeds now feel right being total class features instead of optional choices like the rage options for barbarians.
Deadeye
Awesome! Love the 1 grit cost, enables you to attack against touch AC beyond the first range increment, but at the usual -2 cumulative penalty per range increment. Good balancing.
Gunslinger’s Dodge
I like this. Gives the gunslinger the fleet-footed flavor, able to dodge and weave to avoid ranged attacks, even other gunslinger’s shots. I also like the option to prostrate herself to gain some needed AC.
Quick Clear
I like the standard-action version dependant on maintaining grit, and an option to spend grit to make it a move-action. However, I think this should be become part of the Gunsmith class feature and make it improve with level, as shown above.
Gunslinger Initiative
No change. Still a great deed to have.
Pistol-Whip
Good. However, I think as written it should be a “as long as you have grit” deed. I would then add something extra to it that would cost grit. Not sure what though. Maybe add in the Trip attempt from the 1.4.0 pdf or a Knock Prone attempt by spending a grit point, and being able to drop her firearm as a free action. Make it a little more functional, exciting, and more gunslinger-esque.
Utility Shot
Thank you for making this a 3rd level deed, 11th level was WAY TOO HIGH for this. It’s a great deed to allow the gunslinger some utility and a bit of battlefield control. It may even be good as a 1st level deed, if you shuffle deeds as I am proposing throughout this post. I would suggest adding the following to utility shot as well. Although, with the flare cartridge, you can do this without a campfire, but it would add to the gunslinger’s flavour. Anyways, here it is.
• Shower of Sparks: The gunslinger discharges her firearm into a campfire or similar blaze and makes an attack roll against an AC 10. On a hit, you scatter sparking embers into the air in a 5-foot radius. Anyone caught in the radius must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + ½ the gunslinger’s level + the gunslinger’s Dexterity modifier) or gain the blinded condition for 1 round. On a miss, there is a 20% chance the shot ricochets and hits someone within the firearm’s first range increment.
Dead Shot
Dead Shot gets its own section. I think something from the original version of the “pickle” shot needs to be added in. A single bullet, roll all the attacks as normal, but allow each critical that is rolled a chance for confirmation. This adds to the chance of massive damage, which was the whole point of this idea.
Purple Dragon Knight, the original “Pickle Shot” inventor said the following in another post.
The pickleshot I playtested was slightly different:
Each roll with it's own possible crit hit, DEX bonus to damage, magical enhancement bonus, weapon properties (such as flaming) but only one bullet, only once chance to misfire (1st roll), and if they miss their initial attack roll, the pickle shot a.k.a Dead Shot was *not* wasted (i.e. you keep going as long as you have attacks, so in effect you hit the target for damage in any of the attacks hit). Then, you only apply DR once to total damage. You roll versus regular AC and not Touch AC.
Based on my playtest, Dead Shot needs to also keep weapon qualities for each attack. Anything less is penalizing the gunslinger in comparison to a bow archer. KISS: Keep It Simple and Stupid.
The true pickleshot does away with any complication: you treat the pickleshot as if you'd be shooting a bullet for each attack you roll. Misfire only if natural one on the first roll. The only advantage that was built into the pickleshot is that you apply DR only once. That's it, simple. No grit required.
The pickleshot, mind you, used regular AC and not Touch AC... My suggestion would be to make Dead Shot deed into the pickleshot described above with the following option:
"Dead Shot is performed against the target's regular AC at all range increments, and can be used at no grit point cost as long as the gunslinger has one grit point left. At the cost of one grit point, however, the gunslinger can use Dead Shot against the target's Touch AC if she is within the first range increment."
Call this, *The_Dill_Pickleshot* if you will, as I feel we are getting closer to the true Dill_Pickle-induced eureka moment I had... :)
Thus, I propose the following change.
Dead Shot (Ex): At 7th level, when the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, the gunslinger can take careful aim and pool all of her attack potential in a single, deadly shot, but against the target’s normal Armor Class. When she does this, she shoots the firearm at a single target, but makes as many attack rolls as she can, based on her base attack bonus. She makes the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest, as if she were making a full attack. However, these attack rolls are made against the target’s normal AC, not the target’s touch AC. If any of the attacks hit the target, the gunslinger hits the target.
For each additional hit made against the target beyond the first, the gunslinger increases the damage of the shot by the base die roll of the firearm. All damage modifiers, including those from the gunslinger’s Dexterity modifier, Deadly Aim feat, precision damage and extra damage from special weapon qualities (such as flaming) are added with damage modifiers to each damage die. If one or more attack rolls are critical threats, she confirms each critical as normal, and on a confirmation, she multiplies the damage normally. However, any damage reduction the target has is applied once to the total damage of the shot.
When making a Dead Shot, the gunslinger can only misfire if all attack rolls result in a misfire. Any missed attack, including the first attack roll, does not negate any subsequent rolls during the Dead Shot. Alternately, the gunslinger can spend 1 grit point to perform the Dead Shot against the target’s touch AC.
Startling Shot
I see you guys changed this to allow purposeful missed shots to gain this effect. However, I would propose that when a gunslinger chooses to miss on purpose to gain the effect, it should cost 1 grit point. Accidental misses can kick in through having 1 grit remaining, but purposeful missing should have a cost, otherwise it can be maintained indefinitely. Or add in some other restriction when choosing to miss.
Targeting
I would suggest including the penalties to attack rolls for each individual body part; arms and legs -2, head -4, torso -2, wing -2, or whatever it should be. Also, An arm attack should take normal damage, not no damage, unless the gunslinger is actually hitting the object in the target’s hand and is shooting it out of its hand.
Bleeding Wound
This is good.
Expert Reloading
Good ability to have, but a lame use of a deed though, especially at 11th level. I’d add this as a quality to the Gunsmith class feature, as shown above.
Lightning Reload
Move to 3rd level; 11th is too late. By 7th, the gunslinger has more than one attack, but I think 3rd levels is where it needs to be so that relaoding can happen in a decent amount ot time.
Evasive
This is good! However, I wonder if this shouldn’t be moved to 11th. Maybe have it improved to improved evasion at 15th?
Menacing Shot
Again, a good deed that allows her to gain some more battlefield control. I’d keep it right at 15th level.
Slinger’s Luck
Gives the gunslinger a flavor of being lucky in the midst of battle.
Cheat Death
Another good one. Obviously another crossover from something similar in the v.1.4.0 pdf.
Death’s Shot[i]
Again, awesome! +10
[i]Stunning Shot
Also a great deed that gives the gunslinger and her allies a great advantage against their enemies. Could be moved to 15th level though, since monks can stun far earlier, even well before 15th level
Now, with Deed vacancies at 11th and 19th level, I would like to propose the following two deeds.
Bravery
Like it seems you guys are planning, it’s gotta go. Replace it with something better, something more GUNSLINGER-ESQUE!!!! I’ll be waiting to see what you come up with. Another option is to add something like the following in place of the Bravery feature.
The gunslinger can choose feats from her selected combat style, even if she does not have the normal prerequisites.
If the gunslinger selects musketeer, she can choose from the following list whenever she gains a firearm combat style feat: Deadly Aim, Far Shot, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot. At 6th level, she adds Improved Precise Shot and Vital Strike to the list. At 10th level, she adds Pinpoint Targeting and Improved Vital Strike to the list.
If the gunslinger selects buccaneer, she can choose from the following list whenever she gains a combat style feat: Dazzling Display, Point-Blank Shot, Quick Draw, and Two-Weapon Fighting. At 6th level, she adds Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Deadly Stroke to the list. At 10th level, she adds Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Penetrating Strike to the list.
If the gunslinger selects pistoleer, she can choose from the following list whenever she gains a combat style feat: Point-Blank Shot, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, and Two-Weapon Fighting. At 6th level, she adds Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Many Shot to the list. At 10th level, she adds Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Shot on the Run to the list.
If the gunslinger selects blunderbusseer, she can choose from the following list whenever she gains a combat style feat: Point-Blank Shot, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, and. At 6th level, she adds Bleeding Critical and Many Shot to the list. At 10th level, she adds Deafening Critical and Shot on the Run to the list.
The benefits of the gunslinger’s chosen style feats apply only when she wears light, medium, or no armor. She loses all benefits of her firearm combat style feats when wearing heavy armor. Once a gunslinger selects a firearm combat style, it cannot be changed.
Bonus Feats
I see gunslinger is still able to select combat feats. Now, do their gunslinger levels translate to fighter levels for determining feats or not. It doesn’t say so, so I assume not. If they do, you better specify it. However, if the gunslinger is not able to take “fighter only” feats, that’s OK to me. Gunslinger’s can still make touch attacks in the first range increment of their firearms, making them as deadly if not deadlier with their firearms at close range than fighters can be. I’d also add another bonus feat at 2nd level, perhaps allowing the gunslinger to choose between Rapid Reload, Precise Shot, or Point-Blank Shot, something universally beneficial to any style of gunslinging.
Gun Training
Many have suggested the gunslinger needs access to certain feats at these levels too; Quick Draw, Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization, etc. but only for their firearm chosen at 1st level.
This was suggested in another thread, which I really liked and agreed with.
Why not make Gun Training a choice between the actual "Pick a new kind of gun, gain +1 to att. and +dex. to damage with theses ones", and something like "You can also pick several times the same kind of gun, and gain +1 to att and damage with them" ?
It would make for the loss of Greater Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization - when a Fighter would have them, plus the weapon training full bonus.
I suggest the following rewrite of the Gun Training class feature. It is more in line with the fighter style weapon training, but gives the gunslinger a bit of edge in ranged damage, especially with his firearm chosen at 1st level.
Every four levels thereafter (9th, 13th, and 17th), the gunslinger becomes further trained in another type of firearm. She gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when using this new firearm. In addition, any bonuses granted to a previous firearm increase by +1 each. For example, when a gunslinger reaches 9th level, she receives a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with one type of firearm and a +2 bonus on attack rolls and a bonus to damage rolls with the firearm selected at 1st level equal to her Dexterity modifier +1. Firearms that are similar, such as musket and axe musket, are counted as the same type of firearm for bonuses related to gun training.
A gunslinger also adds this bonus to any combat maneuver checks made with these firearms. This bonus also applies to the gunslinger’s Combat Maneuver Defense when defending against disarm and sunder attempts made against firearms selected for gun training.
True Grit
Still don’t know if this is on par with other capstone abilities. Death’s Shot almost seems more of a cap stone, but then again, Grit is a primary mechanic to the class. I like it, just not sure if it’s capstone quality yet? Hmmm. Then again, after rereading it and comparing it to the 1st round version, you have added “If a deed could already be performed as long as she had at least 1 grit point, she can now perform that deed even when she has no grit points.” This has greatly improved its worth. Maybe were good?
If people are interested I'm willing to post a pdf version of all this as if it were the final Gunslinger, but I'd like to hear everyone's feedback.
too many little blocks to read through but I would be interested in reading the PDF.
Before you do that tho, could you take a look at my pistol whip thread I just started?
too many little blocks to read through but I would be interested in reading the PDF.
Before you do that tho, could you take a look at my pistol whip thread I just started?
Indeed I will, but it'll have to be tomorrow. Must..go...to...bed! Night all!
I still think she needs to have 4 + Int. The Playtest will prove or foil that assumption.
Agreed. I'd almost stay use 6 + Int as a Ranger since I think that's the closest class to compare the Gunslinger to. They have the same number of Class Skills, too.
Stephen said he’ll only have light armor. Doesn’t mean he can’t get mithral chain or mithral breastplate.
Actually, it does:
Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving.
I'm okay with them just having light armor, though.
Gunsmith: ....
I think this is mostly fine as is. The only think I'd add is an option to start with one of the basic Advanced Firearms if setting appropriate (meaning Guns Everywhere), with GM approval. I also don't like the idea of hardwiring any misfire aiding abilities into the class. Again, what if you're playing Guns Everywhere? The misfire help should be selectable through Deeds whenever possible (if they do change it to where Deed abilities are selectable instead of hardwired).
Grit: ....
If they keep Grit, I think they should use the half level + Wis thing and just drop the recharge mechanics. But personally, I don't really like Grit. I think Deeds should just be reworked to be like Rogue Talents, Alchemist Discoveries, and Oracle Revelations. Get to choose one every other level. Use is either unlimited (as Pistol-Whip should be, without the knock prone thing) or limited to X times per day for more powerful abilities. But that's just me.
Firearm Expertise (Ex): ....
Wow, that's pretty much exactly how I wanted the bonus feats changed! I also think that Rapid Reload and Precise Shot should be automatic at first level since they're feats that pretty much every gun user needs, or maybe Precise shot at first and Rapid Reload at third level.
Gun Training (Ex): ....
I actually don't like the "add Dex mod to ranged damage" being a Gunslinger exclusive thing. I'd rather it be a feat available to everyone. There is such a feat in the Iron Kingdoms book called Sharpshooter that I use in my games. I'd really like a feat like that become officially available in Pathfinder instead of something that's an exclusive class feature to the Gunslinger. Then make the feat available as in option as a bonus feat for the Gunslinger.
And I'm not so sure about True Grit either, but again, I don't really like Grit in general.
But yeah, the Gunslinger is much closer to something I might actually consider playing now. Hopefully it gets even better in the final version.
If any Paizo Devs are reading this thread, you need to add more musket/rifle love, so that they can actually reload fast enough to allow full attacks with them every round.
Here are some proposed new deeds to add at the appropriate levels.
1st Level Deeds
Cold Stare (Ex): At 1st level, whenever a gunslinger has her firearm drawn and makes an Intimidate check, she gains a bonus to her check equal to her current grit points. As long as the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point remaining, she may use the Intimidate skill to demoralize an opponent (see the Intimidate skill) as a move action, instead of a standard action. If the gunslinger spends 1 grit point, she can demoralize one additional opponent for every 4 gunslinger levels she has, to maximum equal to her Wisdom modifier.
3rd Level Deeds
Smoking Guns (Ex): At 3rd level, whenever the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, she can create a cloud of smoke on her square that obscures normal sight (not including darkvision) beyond 5 feet. It also grants her concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance) against any creatures further than 5 feet away. The smoke cloud remains for one round per level or until dissipated. A moderate wind (11+ mph), such as from a gust of wind spell disperses the cloud in 4 rounds, while a strong wind (21+ mph) disperses it in 1 round. If the gunslinger spends 1 grit point, the smoke cloud obscures all sight, including darkvision. It also grants her concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance) against any creatures within 5 feet, and total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target) against any creatures further than 5 feet away. If the gunslinger is dual-wielding pistols, or discharges two barrels from a double barrel pistol or other multi-barreled firearm, the smoke cloud fills one additional adjacent square of the gunslinger’s choice.
7th Level Deeds
Lock and Load (Ex): At 7th level, the gunslinger can reload a weapon without having the other hand free. If the gunslinger has Rapid Reload, she can spend 1 grit point to reload an additional shot in the same action.
11th Level Deeds
Guardian Gunman (Ex): At 11th level, as an immediate action, the gunslinger can spend 1 grit point and declare one ally she can see to be under her protection for 1 round. Any time the protected ally is targeted by an enemy during that round, the gunslinger immediately gains an attack of opportunity against that enemy at her highest attack bonus. The gunslinger may continue to spend grit points to gain attacks of opportunity against each opponent that targets her protected ally.
15th Level Deeds
Lone Wolf (Ex): At 15th level, whenever the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, her threatened area increases by 5 feet. Until the beginning of her next turn, she can make attacks of opportunity against any opponent that enters this threatened area that provokes attacks of opportunity. The gunslinger may move up to her maximum speed as part of these attacks, until her next turn. Any movement made during the performance of this deed provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. If the gunslinger spends 1 grit point, her threatened area increases by 5 additional feet, and she no longer provokes attacks of opportunity.
19th Level Deeds
Devastating Shot: At 19th level, when the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, she can make a full-attack that deals progressive damage. When the gunslinger does this, she shoots the firearm at a single target, and makes the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest like any full attack. However, these attack rolls are made against the target’s normal AC, not the target’s touch AC. If the first attack hits, the gunslinger deals damage normally. For each consecutive hit thereafter, the firearm’s damage increases by one additional damage die. If the gunslinger misses on any of her rolls during her full-attack action, the damage begins again at the base damage die. For example, a gunslinger discharges all four of her pistol attacks at a single target, with the results of “hit”, “hit”, “miss”, and “hit” respectively. Damage dealt to the target would then be 1d8 + 2d8 + 0 + 1d8. If the gunslinger were to hit the target with all four attack rolls, the damage would be 1d8 + 2d8 + 3d8 + 4d8, for a total of 10d8 over four attacks. If the gunslinger can spend 1 grit point, she can perform the Devastating Shot against the target’s touch AC instead of its normal AC. In addition, on a critical hit, the target’s speed is halved for 4 rounds. A successful Fortitude (DC 10 + the gunslinger’s level + the gunslinger’s Dexterity modifier) save reduces this duration to 2 rounds. The gunslinger can choose which movement type of the target to affect if it has multiple types of movement.
So I have to ask, just what about the gunslinger are you trying to fix with all of this? I only ask this because it seems like you just want to make the gunslinger more powerful.
To provide options within the current class structure. If they change it to "pick your deeds" they gunslinger could simply be allowed to choose 2-3 deeds of the appropriate level if they expand the deeds list for each level they are gained.
If you are asking "in general" I am trying to provide ideas to fix the various small problems the class still has. I don't think they're going to alter the grit mechanic, or much of the class structure itself. So, I'm trying to provide ideas within the structure they seem to be sticking with. Pretty much like many others in a lot of the other threads are doing. I just proposed it in a structured, "this is what it could look like" style. That's how i best work through my ideas.
Replacing bravery with bonus feats equivalent to the ranger's fighting style is a pretty huge boost, though with how feat starved the gunslinger is right now, it's a good idea. If bonus feats are kept as well, I would limit them to Grit feats only as the fighting style covers the combat feats already.
So "combat style" bonus feats at 2, 6, 10, 14, 18 and Grit feats at 4, 8, 12, 16, 20.
However, this would end up giving gunslingers a feat at every level which is like the fighter. Though it does give the gunslinger options to customize what deeds they have beyond the core ones (yes, I like how they get a set amount instead of choosing them as some of them are just there to make firearms viable while others give some neat options).
I agree with the 4+Int mod skill points per level. More skilled than the fighter but less so than the ranger.
I've heard something about gunslingers getting light armor only and also adding Wis to AC (hopefully while wearing light armor). I'd imagine it will be full Wis to AC when not wearing armor and add your Wis bonus to your Dex bonus to determine your bonus to AC while wearing it (limited by the max Dex of the armor).
I would suggest taking out the precision based damage from the Dead Shot attacks to prevent gunslinger 7/rogue 13 possible cheese of adding 7d6 damage per theoretical shot just by coming out of Stealth. Adding it once is fine, especially since this is pretty much just one hit, boosted by a class ability.
Replacing bravery with bonus feats equivalent to the ranger's fighting style is a pretty huge boost, though with how feat starved the gunslinger is right now, it's a good idea. If bonus feats are kept as well, I would limit them to Grit feats only as the fighting style covers the combat feats already.
So "combat style" bonus feats at 2, 6, 10, 14, 18 and Grit feats at 4, 8, 12, 16, 20.
However, this would end up giving gunslingers a feat at every level which is like the fighter. Though it does give the gunslinger options to customize what deeds they have beyond the core ones (yes, I like how they get a set amount instead of choosing them as some of them are just there to make firearms viable while others give some neat options).
I agree with the 4+Int mod skill points per level. More skilled than the fighter but less so than the ranger.
I've heard something about gunslingers getting light armor only and also adding Wis to AC (hopefully while wearing light armor). I'd imagine it will be full Wis to AC when not wearing armor and add your Wis bonus to your Dex bonus to determine your bonus to AC while wearing it (limited by the max Dex of the armor).
I would suggest taking out the precision based damage from the Dead Shot attacks to prevent gunslinger 7/rogue 13 possible cheese of adding 7d6 damage per theoretical shot just by coming out of Stealth. Adding it once is fine, especially since this is pretty much just one hit, boosted by a class ability.
Dang post monster ate my post!!
Alright, lets try again. I know the bravery will be replaced likely by an +AC mechanic. That's fine. I put in the Firearm Styles just for people to see it. It does provide ALOT of extra feats, brobably too many, but I think we needed to see what it looked like.
As for the reloading issues we're all facing, as suggeted in another thread, that could be taken care of in class Features, perhaps added to the Gun Training feature. They really need to do something to allow gunslingers (and only gunslingers) the ability to actually use their full-attacks, without having to resort to a revolver or pepperbox. Maybe make Dead Shot a sinlge shot firearm mechanic (or perhaps a longbarrel firearm mechanic), so that they can combine all attacks into a singel shot. This would be the same as a Full-Attack action, as to calculating damage, with the only other benefit over a normal full-attack action being that DR can only be applied once to the total damage. Which I think is fare for longbarrel firearms.
This would allow both handguns and longbarrel guns to eventually be used with full-attacks. I'm going to work on that and see if their is a fare way for that to happen with the Gun Training feature. Maybe only allow these benefits with the type of firearm they've chosen at 1st level? Muskets would include axe musket and rifle, Pistol would include any pistols and revolver, and Bluderbuss would include dragon pistol and shot gun (any scatter property guns).
Suggestions? Thoughts?
Dang post monster ate my post!!Alright, lets try again. I know the bravery will be replaced likely by an +AC mechanic. That's fine. I put in the Firearm Styles just for people to see it. It does provide ALOT of extra feats, brobably too many, but I think we needed to see what it looked like.
As for the reloading issues we're all facing, as suggeted in another thread, that could be taken care of in class Features, perhaps added to the Gun Training feature. They really need to do something to allow...
Well, the other benefit that Dead Shot has is that it cracks off a single shot instead of a dozen.
Lightning Reload is a good start but it is gained a little on the late side. Either making it a selectable Grit feat available much sooner, or just giving it sooner can help it out. Especially if the wording allows you to reload as a free action with Rapid Reload and alchemical cartridges more than once per barrel.
By the way, is there a compilation of possible changes listed from the designer somewhere
If by "designer" you mean Paizo, I don't think so. In my suggestions above, I put Lightning Reload at 3rd level. I think your commnet "allows you to reload as a free action with Rapid Reload and alchemical cartridges more than once per barrel" could be added into Gun Training. Maybe something like this? I also made another change, by adding Firearm types, making it much like the fighter's weapon training feature.
Starting at 5th level, a gunslinger gains access to a group of firearms of the same type that she chose at 1st level, as noted below. Whenever she attacks with a firearm from this group, she gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls. However, whenever the gunslinger attacks with the precise firearm chosen at 1st level, she gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls, and a bonus equal to her Dexterity modifier on damage rolls when firing the firearm she selected at 1st level. Furthermore, when she misfires with that chosen firearm, the misfire value of that firearm increases by 2 instead of 4.
Every four levels thereafter (9th, 13th, and 17th), a gunslinger becomes further trained in another group of firearms. She gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when using a firearm from this group. In addition, the bonuses granted by previous fire groups increase by +1 each, including those of the firearm chosen at 1st level. For example, when a gunslinger reaches 9th level, she receives a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with one firearm group and a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls with the firearm group from at 5th level. Bonuses granted from overlapping groups do not stack. Take the highest bonus granted for a weapon if it resides in two or more groups.
A gunslinger also adds this bonus to any combat maneuver checks made with firearms from this group. This bonus also applies to the gunslinger’s Combat Maneuver Defense when defending against disarm and sunder attempts made against firearms from this group.
Firearm groups are defined as follows (GMs may add other weapons to these groups, or add entirely new groups):
Long Range: axe musket, musket, pepperbox gun*, revolver rifle*, rifle.
Multi-Shot: buckler gun, double barrel pistol, pepperbox, pepperbox gun*, revolver, revolver rifle*.
Pistol: coat pistol, double barrel pistol, dragon pistol, pistol.
Scatter: blunderbuss, dragon pistol, shot gun.
*These firearms are suggestions by myself, and are based on real-life firearms of the era.
In addition to the bonuses gained by the gunslinger’s gun training, she greatly improves her reloading skills and speed. Beginning at 6th level, if the gunslinger has Rapid Reload, whenever she uses the Lighting Reload Deed and alchemical cartridges, she can reload a single barrel firearm twice per round as a free action. This allows the gunslinger to use her full-attacks during her turn. At 11th level, the gunslinger can reload her barrel three times per round as a free action, and at 16th level, she can reload it up to four times per round.
I was also wondering anyone's thoughts, since the "Firearm Combat Style" is likely not going to happen, what people thought about giving the gunslginer Rapid Reload as a 1st level bonus feat. Everyone is going to choose it at first at level, so why not give it to the gunslinger at 1st, freeing up another much needed feat slot?
I realize they are already gaining Gunsmithing at 1st from her Gunsmith feature, why not add Rapid Reload in there also? And I know I'm going to hear about "too many free feats" at 1st, but I think the gunslinger getting it for free, maybe even at 2nd level would be fine, is a necessary thing for them to be not just viable but allow for them to become great without wasting her already limited feats on it.
I assume or hope something like this for the Gunslinger's AC thing. Shouldn't be nearly as good as the Monks though.
If by "designer" you mean Paizo, I don't think so. In my suggestions above, I put Lightning Reload at 3rd level. I think your commnet "allows you to reload as a free action with Rapid Reload and alchemical cartridges more than once per barrel" could be added into Gun Training. Maybe something like this? I also made another change, by adding Firearm types, making it much like the fighter's weapon training feature.
** spoiler omitted **...
I think that gun training is not bad as is though it should also grant a +1 to hit as well. Leave the group weapons to the fighter and make the gunslingers a bit more powerful (add in Dex damage as well), but far more narrow.
I came up with something similar to the Instinct ability you're suggesting except I broke it up into two different abilities.
And
Alright, after much thought, perusing the threads, and reading Stephen's various replies, I've posted my vision of the Final Gunslinger v.2.1.0 .
This is based on numerous suggestions by posters, some of my own thoughts and ideas, and is based upon the current confines and rules of the playtest 2 gunslinger class, and not a complete rebuild like the past v.1.4.0 or v.1.5.0 from the round 1 playtest. Have a look, read it carefully, compare it the playtest 2 document, and see what you think.
Stephen, if you are reading this, please take a look, and hopefully some things in there you will consider/reconsider/add/change, etc. And again, thank you (Paizo) for allowing ALL of us to be part of the playtests.
I like most of it.
I do have a few questions though.
1) Gunsmith. OMG. So many abilities wrapped up into this class feature. I get it was to remove the "make guns better" deeds, and to simulate an intimate understanding of firearms, but you get a whole lot out of it. Free Rapid Reload comes to mind. True, it is a required feat for starting gunslingers, however having Lightning Reload at 3rd instead of 11th level does help out some. I'd drop the free bonus feat.
2) Gunslinger Initiative. I noticed that it's the same ability as in the Round 2 Playtest. I still want to know the purpose of being able to draw your weapon as part of your initiative check, besides being cool thematically. You can already do this as a free action on your turn and you get no benefit (that I can see) of having a firearm out before your turn when you can do this. I'm wondering if you had another idea and just forgot to put it in
3) Smoking Guns. Now, I figure the intent of this ability is to create a cloud of obscuring smoke when you fire off your gun but, as it stands, the writing of the ability doesn't specify any sort of action required to do it. So, technically, I can sit there and spray smoke from my guns all over the place (wtf), all day long, as long as I have 1 grit available. If that's not a Su ability, I don't know what is.
4) Why 4 free deeds every time you get a new group instead of the usual 3? That's... alot of deeds. Don't get me wrong, I love the gunslinger, grit and all that but really... even more class abilities?
5) Dead Shot. I still think that precision based damage and critical hits at least should only be added once. It represents a single hit. A single perfectly targeted super hit, but one nonetheless. All balance outside, it also feels... weird to me.
6) Guardian Gunman. Neat but... why?
7) Lone Wolf. Does this deed allow you to make attacks of opportunity with your gun as a ranged weapon? Because, if not, at this point its main use would be to launch yourself over towards the enemy and pistol-whip them.
8) Penetrating Shot. Ignoring DR (including /-), cause shaken condition, bull rush on critical hit by spending grit, stuff, stuff, stuff. Just saying, I like the "Keep It Simple St...Sssssss....Simple" philosophy and there's a whole lot of if/and/there/buts going on here.
9) Devastating Shot. Neat, but overcomplicated. See "K.I.S.S."
10) Gut Instinct. Basically an "untyped" deflection bonus to AC. Ehhh... not a fan.
11) Gun Training. I mentioned before what I think of giving the gunslinger weapon groups instead of individual weapons and I don't like the fact that it's basically weapon training, only waaaaaaaay better (though limited to firearm groups).
12) True Grit. I like the addition of the extra 2 grit points. Genius!
I LOVE the setup of this PDF, very professional. The extra pics of the firearms, the extra equipment with some price guidelines, extra weapons and a few new feats. Very cool.
Thanks for the compliment, TEG. I’m glad someone appreciated it.
However, since others seem to think THIS is the way to present my final ideas for the Gunslinger, here they are. The following are suggested changes to the Playtest 2 Gunslinger class. Some items have changed from my previously posted v.2.1.0 pdf, after some serious thought about balance, and what the gunslinger really needs to make him Great!!! I also addressed some of your concerns TEG.
I appoligize to all who read it for the length, but that's how the gunslinger fires. So, here we go.
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int Modifier
Class Features
• Gain a + ½ level to their Craft checks when creating ammunition and firearms
• Give Rapid Reload as a bonus feat at 2nd level; why make them waste a much needed feat slot when EVERYONE WILL select this as a feat. Just give it to them.
• Quick Clear as a standard action should simply be a free gunslinger ability from 1st level, no grit cost. Then, as she gains experience, she can Quick Clear more quickly, say improved by an action type every 4 levels? To a move action at 5th, then a swift action at 9th. Again this is along the lines of “they’re the best of the best with guns and crafting them.”
• As makers and designers of firearms, they should be able to improve THEIR firearm’s misfire chance without having to resort to magic weapon special abilities – leave that for the other classes who decide to pick up a firearm as a weapon; something like able to make her firearms permanently “Reliable” at 6th level, and “Steadfast” at 11th level. Able to do these before a spellcaster can create the equivalent magic weapon abilities (8th and 12th level I believe?). This wouldn’t affect paper cartridges however, since improving them is really just creating metal cartridges.
• Also, the Expert Loader deed should be added to the Gunsmith feature. Allow the gunslinger to prevent a broken gun from exploding at 9th or 11th level, then if she creates advanced firearms, she can permanently incorporate a “nonexploding” quality into the advanced firearms she creates (more on Advanced Firearms later). I also think gunslingers using the Gunsmithing feat to craft advanced should have to be 12th level to do so.
• At 1st level, gunslingers gains Grit equal to her Wis modifier. She begins every day with this amount no mater what. If her Wisdom increases, her daily beginning grit increases to match her new Wisdom modifier.
• Then, at every level after 1st that she gains new deeds, her MAXIMUM daily grit increases by +1. Although her max daily grit increases, she still begins each day with an amount of grit equal to her current Wis modifier.
• Throughout the day, the Gunslinger can regain/increase her current grit up to her maximum grit through daring acts, criticals, kills, etc.
• Thus, an 11th level gunslinger with a Wis mod of +4 would start each day with 4 grit, but can increase/regain grit each day up to her new maximum of 7 grit.
• Finally, I’m still not sure what combo of ways to regain grit are best. Either keep all 3, or use two and leave 1 optional, but I;m not sure if Criticals or Kills should be the optional one. Maybe Crits should be the option.
I think you should also find a way to give each deed a grit maintenance option and grit cost option. Along those lines I suggest the following additional deeds and that some be moved to other levels than their current ones:
Cheat Death
Change/Add the following:
…If the gunslinger has no grit points, or her injuries are in any way self-inflicted, she cannot perform this deed. This deed cannot be reduced by Signature Deed or the True Grit class feature.
Dead Shot
Dead Shot should read as follows, to allow for the gunslinger using this deed to keep up with the damage from other full BAB classes. Otherwise, it really isn’t worth the Dead Shot idea. Although, damage bonuses and subtraction from DR should only apply once, logically, like you said in a post Stephen, what you did with the scatter quality isn’t necessarily true to real-life either but adjusted to make its use appealing to players. I think the same goes with Dead Shot. It should be appealing to players, and on par with damage from multiple shots at one target. Especially if it ends up that musket users won’t ever get their full 4 attacks at higher levels. Not to mention, if “advanced firearms are not allowed in Galorian” is the baseline for the gunslinger class. This deed needs to allow for possibility of using full attacks without actually “shooting” full attacks.
Dead Shot (Ex): At 7th level, when the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, as a full-round action, she can take careful aim and pool all of her attack potential in a single, deadly shot, but against the target’s normal Armor Class. When the gunslinger does this, she shoots the firearm at a single target, but makes as many attack rolls as she can, based on her base attack bonus. She makes the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest, as if she were making a full attack. However, these attack rolls are made against the target’s normal AC, not the target’s touch AC. If any of the attacks hit the target, the gunslinger hits the target. For each additional hit made against the target beyond the first, the gunslinger increases the damage of the shot by the base die roll of the firearm. All damage modifiers, including those from the gunslinger’s Dexterity modifier, Deadly Aim feat, precision damage and extra damage from special weapon qualities (such as flaming) are added, with damage modifiers, to each damage die. If one or more attack rolls are critical threats, she confirms each critical as normal, and on a confirmation, she multiplies the damage normally. However, any damage reduction the target has is applied once to the total damage of the shot. When making a Dead Shot, the gunslinger can only misfire if all attack rolls result in a misfire. Any missed attack, including the first attack roll, does not negate any subsequent rolls during the Dead Shot. Alternately, the gunslinger can spend 1 grit point to perform the Dead Shot against the target’s touch AC.
Death’s Shot
Add the following:
…This deed cannot be reduced by Signature Deed or the True Grit class feature.
Evasive (Ex):
Move this from 15th to 11th level.
Lightning Reload
Move this to 3rd level, or at least 7th level. I really prefer 3rd though. This is the one gunslinger exclusive deed that allow the class to hopefully gain full attacks. You may want to have it scale with level, allowing another barrel every so many levels (maybe to coincide with its BAB) to be loaded until she can do so with 4 to be loaded until she can do so with full attacks.
Pistol-Whip:
Give Pistol-Whip a grit maintenance and grit cost option such as this:
Pistol-Whip (Ex): At 3rd level, when the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, she can make a surprise melee attack with the butt or handle of her firearm against the flat-footed AC of the target, as a standard action. When she does, she is considered to be proficient with the firearm as a melee weapon and gains a bonus on the attack and damage rolls equal to the enhancement bonus of the firearm. The damage dealt by the pistol-whip is of the bludgeoning type, and is determined by the size of the firearm. One-handed firearms deal 1d6 points of damage (1d4 if wielded by size Small creatures) and two-handed firearms deal 1d10 points of damage (1d8 if wielded by size Small creatures). Regardless of the gunslinger’s size, the critical multiplier of this attack is 20/×2. If the attack hits, the gunslinger can spend 1 grit point and make a CMB check to knock the target prone as a free action.
Quick Clear
As stated above, make this deed a part of the Gunsmith feature.
Stunning Shot
Add the following sentence:
…This deed cannot be reduced by Signature Deed or the True Grit class feature.
Utility Shot
Move this deed to 1st level, and add the following to the list of utilities:
• Shower of Sparks: The gunslinger discharges her firearm into a campfire or similar blaze and makes an attack roll against an AC 10. On a hit, you scatter sparking embers into the air in a 5-foot radius. Anyone caught in the radius must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + ½ the gunslinger’s level + the gunslinger’s Wisdom modifier) or gain the blinded condition for 1 round. On a miss, there is a 20% chance the shot ricochets and hits someone within the firearm’s first range increment.
NEW DEED SUGGESTIONS
Please adjust, change as you see fit. It’s the general ideas these deeds portray that I’d like to see preserved if you choose to add to the deeds list. Also, if you don’t want 4 deeds per deed set, select the ones you want to replace those I suggested be included as part of the Gunsmith feature.
Cold Stare (Ex): At 1st level, whenever a gunslinger has her firearm drawn and makes an Intimidate check, she gains a bonus to her check equal to her current grit points. As long as the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point remaining, she may use the Intimidate skill to demoralize an opponent (see the Intimidate skill) as a move action, instead of a standard action. If the gunslinger spends 1 grit point, she can demoralize one additional opponent for every 4 gunslinger levels she has, to maximum equal to her Wisdom modifier.
Smoking Guns (Ex): At 3rd level, as a standard action, whenever the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, she can discharge her firearm to create a cloud of smoke on her square that obscures normal sight (not including darkvision) beyond 5 feet. It also grants her concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance) against any creatures further than 5 feet away. The smoke cloud remains for one round per level or until dissipated. A moderate wind (11+ mph), such as from a gust of wind spell disperses the cloud in 4 rounds, while a strong wind (21+ mph) disperses it in 1 round. If the gunslinger spends 1 grit point, the smoke cloud obscures all sight, including darkvision. It also grants her concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance) against any creatures within 5 feet, and total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target) against any creatures further than 5 feet away. If the gunslinger is dual-wielding pistols, or discharges two barrels from a double barrel pistol or other multi-barreled firearm, the smoke cloud fills one additional adjacent square of the gunslinger’s choice.
Lock and Load (Ex): At 7th level, the gunslinger can reload a weapon without having the other hand free. If the gunslinger has Rapid Reload, she can spend 1 grit point to reload an additional shot in the same action.
Guardian Gunman (Ex): At 11th level, as an immediate action, the gunslinger can spend 1 grit point and declare one ally she can see to be under her protection for 1 round. Any time the protected ally is targeted by an enemy during that round, the gunslinger immediately gains a ranged attack of opportunity against that enemy at her highest attack bonus. The gunslinger may continue to spend grit points to gain attacks of opportunity against each opponent that targets her protected ally.
Keep Them Dancing (Ex): At 11th level, the gunslinger can spend 1 grit point and fire a single shot at as many adjacent targets within her firearm’s fire range increment as she has attacks without provoking attacks of opportunity. She makes the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest, as normal, and must select targets that are within 30 feet of each other. On a hit, the target is damaged normally and provokes attacks of opportunity instead. If the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, she gains a +2 bonus to her attack rolls.
Lone Wolf (Ex): At 15th level, whenever the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, her threatened area increases by 5 feet. Until the beginning of her next turn, she can make ranged attacks of opportunity against any opponent that enters this threatened area that provokes attacks of opportunity. The gunslinger may move up to her maximum speed as part of these attacks, until her next turn. Any movement made during the performance of this deed provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. If the gunslinger spends 1 grit point, her threatened area increases by 5 additional feet, and she no longer provokes attacks of opportunity.
I altered this one a bit, since concern for it being too much for a single deed was raised. Thus I’ve simplified it.
Penetrating Shot (Ex): At 19th level, when the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, she can ignore up to 5 points of damage reduction, including damage reduction without a type (such as DR 10/—). If the gunslinger scores a critical hit with this attack, she can spend 1 grit point as an immediate action to push her opponent back with a ranged bull rush, in addition to the normal damage dealt by the attack. If her confirmation roll exceeds her opponent’s CMD, she may push her opponent back as if from the bull rush combat maneuver. The gunslinger gains a bonus to her confirmation roll equal to the combat maneuver bonus for a creature two sizes larger than the gunslinger. Any opponent that is unable to move back due to a wall or some other obstacle is knocked prone after moving the maximum possible distance. The gunslinger does not move with the target if successful. This ranged bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity. This deed cannot be reduced by Signature Deed or the True Grit class feature.
I’ve decided to alter the original version of this one too, to be more in line with the idea of the baseline early firearms only. It is similar to Dead Shot, but different. It may need to be lowered to a lower level, perhaps 15th, to allow a bit more use in the high level range.
Devastating Shot (Ex): At 19th level, when the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, as a full-round action, she can pool all of her attack potential in a single shot, but against the target’s normal Armor Class. This deed works just like the Dead Shot deed, but any consecutive hits result in progressively more devastating damage. As usual, the gunslinger makes her attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest like any full attack. If the first attack hits, the gunslinger deals damage normally as per the Dead Shot deed. For each consecutive hit thereafter, the firearm’s damage increases by one additional damage die. If the gunslinger misses on any of her rolls during her full-attack action, the damage begins again at the base damage die. For example, a gunslinger discharges all four of her musket attacks at a single target, with the results of “hit”, “hit”, “miss”, and “hit” respectively. Damage dealt to the target would then be 1d8 + 2d8 + 0 + 1d8 plus any damage bonuses applicable to Dead Shot. If the gunslinger were to hit the target with all four attack rolls, the damage result would be 1d8 + 2d8 + 3d8 + 4d8, for a total of 10d8 over four attacks, plus any applicable damage bonuses. If one or more attack rolls are critical threats, she confirms each critical as normal, and on a confirmation, she multiplies the damage normally. When making a Devastating Shot, the gunslinger can only misfire if all attack rolls result in a misfire. Any missed attack, including the first attack roll, does not negate any subsequent rolls during the Devastating Shot. If the gunslinger spends 1 grit point, she can perform the Devastating Shot against the target’s touch AC instead of its normal AC. This deed cannot be reduced by Signature Deed or the True Grit class feature.
I know you plan on replacing Bravery with something “cool”, or at least I hope so. Here’s my suggestion, at least in part.
Originally I felt Gun Training should be changed to allow true specialized training, like that of the Fighter’s Weapon Training, but with firearm groups to select from. That’s what’s in my v.2.1.0. PDF I posted. However, I’ve come to think that may be too much, in that firearms target an opponent’s touch AC, which is a huge advantage. So I’m suggesting you add the following paragraph to the Gun Training feature instead:
This would allow the gunslinger to use her full attacks individually, without having to rely on Dead Shot to use all her attacks, and give an option for dual pistol wielders and others wanting to attack different targets.
Add the following to True Grit.
Feats! Well, I ‘m hoping you will add more feats that will allow for other classes to employ firearms in unique ways when they multi-class with the gunslinger–specifically rogues, alchemists, wizards, etc. So, here are some new feat ideas for you to consider or build upon. I also have suggested some changes to the Gunsmithing feat.
Bombardier Deed (Grit)
The gunslinger can reload a scatter quality firearm with volatile projectiles and launch them great distances.
Prerequisite: Grit class feature or the Amateur Gunslinger feat, able to create a 2nd level alchemist bomb (2d6).
Benefit: As long as you have at least 1 grit point, you can load an alchemist bomb into the muzzle of a firearm with the scatter special quality (blunderbuss or dragon pistol) and launch it your firearm’s range, using any attack bonuses you apply to your firearm, such as those provided by the Weapon Focus feat or the Gun Training class feature. If the firearm explodes by misfire, the bomb detonates, regardless of any discoveries that might normally delay it, and inflicts damage in a 5-foot burst equal to the damage of the bomb + the gunslinger’s Intelligence modifier × ½ the damage die of the bomb. This explosion also deals splash damage (see page 202 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook) to those beyond the 5-foot range and within a 10-foot burst. Splash damage from this explosion is always equal to the bomb’s minimum damage. Those caught in the explosion (including the wielder) and the splash damage can make a Reflex save (DC 10 + your alchemist levels + your Intelligence modifier) for half damage. Bombs altered by your alchemist discoveries can be used in this way without penalty.
Gunmage Deed (Grit)
The gunslinger can reload any firearm with a wand containing a spell with a ranged touch attack.
Prerequisite: Grit class feature or Amateur Gunslinger feat, able to cast 2nd level arcane spells or 5 ranks in Use Magic Device.
Benefit: As long as you have at least 1 grit point, you can load a wand with a ranged touch attack spell into the muzzle of your firearm, and activate it normally, using any attack bonuses you apply to your firearm, such as those provided by the Weapon Focus feat or the Gun Training class feature. If the firearm explodes by misfire, the wand is destroyed and inflicts damage in a 5-foot burst equal to the number of remaining charges × ½ the spell level of the wand. Those caught in the burst (including the wielder) can make a Reflex save (DC 10 + the spell’s level + the caster’s level) for half damage. If you are a magus with the Wand Wielder arcana, you can take this deed without needing any grit, and thus use your gun as part of Spell Combat.
I feel Gunsmithing should have some for of prerequisite, as shown below. Also, their should be a level requirement before gunslingers can create advanced firearm.
Gunsmithing (General)
You know the secrets of repairing and restoring firearms.
Prerequisites: Gunslinger level 1st, Amateur Gunslinger feat, or 5 ranks in Craft (alchemy)
Benefit: If you have access to a gunsmith kit, you can create and restore firearms, craft bullets, and mix black powder for all types of firearms. You do not need a check to create firearms and ammunition or to restore firearms.
Crafting Firearms: You can craft any early firearm for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the firearm. Crafting a firearm in this way takes 1 day of work for every 1,000 gp of the firearm’s price (minimum 1 day).
Crafting Ammunition: You can craft bullets, pellets, and black powder for a cost in raw materials equal to 10% of the price. If you have at least 1 rank in Craft (alchemy), you can craft alchemical cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the cartridge. At your GM’s discretion, you can craft metal cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the cost of the cartridge. Crafting bullets, black powder, or cartridges takes 1 day of work for every 1,000 gp of ammunition (minimum 1 day).
Restoring a Broken Firearm: Each day, with an hour’s worth of work, you can use this feat to repair a single firearm with the broken condition. You can take time during a rest to restore a broken firearm with this feat.
Special: If you are a gunslinger, this feat grants the following additional benefit. You can use this feat to repair and restore your initial, battered weapon. It costs 300 gp and 1 day of work to upgrade it to a masterwork firearm of its type.
Crafting Advanced Firearms: If you are a gunslinger of at least 12th level, at your GM’s discretion, you can craft advanced firearms for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the firearm. Crafting a firearm in this way takes 1 day of work for every 1,000 gp of the firearm’s price (minimum 1 day).
This next feat is based upon the Crossbow Mastery feat from APG
Firearm Expert (Combat)
You can load firearms with blinding speed and even fire them in melee with little fear of reprisal.
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, gunslinger level 6th.
Benefit: The time required to reload a firearm (one-handed or two-handed) is reduce to a swift action. You can also discharge a single shot as a standard action in the same round. Reloading a firearm for the type of firearm you chose when you took Rapid Reload no longer provokes attacks of opportunity.
Special: Starting at 6th level, a ranger with the firearm combat style may select Firearm Expert as a combat style feat.
Here are some new firearms to possibly add to the list. The Pepperbox Gun is based on the “Nock Volley Gun”.
FIREARMS
Early Firearms
Firearm Cost Dmg (S) Dmg (M) Critical Range Misfire Capacity Weight Type Special
Two-Handed Firearms
Pepperbox Gun* 4,500 gp 1d8 1d10 ×4 40 ft. 1–2 (5 ft.) 6 11 lbs. B and P —
Advanced Firearms
Firearm Cost Dmg (S) Dmg (M) Critical Range Misfire Capacity Weight Type Special
One-Handed Firearms
Revolver 750 gp 1d6 1d8 ×4 20 ft. 1 6 6 lbs. B and P —
Two-Handed Firearms
Rifle 1,600 gp 1d8 1d10 ×4 80 ft. 1-2 1 12 lbs. B and P —
Rifle, Repeater 2,400 gp 1d8 1d10 ×4 80 ft. 1-2 12 15 lbs. B and P —
Rifle, Revolver 2,000 gp 1d8 1d10 ×4 80 ft. 1-2 6 14 lbs. B and P —
Shotgun, Double 3,200 gp 1d6 1d8 ×2 Special 1-2 2 9 lbs. B and P Scatter
Barrel
I am of the opinion that early firearms and advanced firearms should not be so far removed from each other. The advances made for advanced firearms should not be the equivalent of what happened between the time of the early musket (1500-1600s) to the emergence of the bolt or lever-action rifles of the West (1800s+). Instead, they should be simple advances of mechanisms (revolver cylinders, lever-actions, etc.) but are added to the base musket, pistol, or blunderbuss. A revolver is not a Rooster Cogburn Navy Colt Dragoon, or 1860’s Peacemaker, but a normal pistol with the revolver mechanism inserted. This sot of thing would allow full attacks to be used, but have the advanced firearms not become too overpowered by allowing the misfires, etc. of early guns.
Others in the threads feel that a way to balance out the advanced firearms somewhat would be to allow them to “misfire” on a 1 only, but have no chance of exploding. Although, perhaps the “advanced firearms” could simply be the advances in firearm capacity and reloading mechanisms, while maintaining the same misfires values but negate the explosion threat.
Advanced Firearms: …Advanced firearms misfire with the same value as their early firearm counterpart. Although they gain the broken condition like other firearms, advanced firearms only become jammed and do not explode on a consecutive misfire roll. An advanced firearm cannot be discharged again until the broken condition has been removed with the quick clear action.
The following are new or proposed changes to existing advanced firearms.
Pepperbox Gun: This two-handed firearm has six barrels instead of one. The entire barrel housing can be quickly rotated by hand between shots, allowing all six bullets to be fired before the weapon must be reloaded. Each barrel of a pepperbox gun uses either a bullet and a single dose of black powder, or a single alchemical cartridge.
Revolver: A revolver is a pistol with a revolving cylinder with six chambers. Each chamber can hold a metal cartridge, and when one cartridge is shot, the cylinder rotates, readying the next chamber for firing.
Rifle: This improvement on the musket, which features grooved barrels, can fire farther and with more accuracy than that early firearm. It may also use a bolt-action mechanism to load cartridges directly into the firing chamber.
Rifle, Repeater: A repeating rifle has a tubular magazine along the length of the barrel. This tube can hold up to 12 metal cartridges. By using the level-action mechanism, a single cartridge is loaded from this tube, readying the chamber for firing.
Rifle, Revolver: A revolver rifle is a rifle with the revolver’s six-chamber cylinder built into it. Each chamber can hold a metal cartridge, and when one cartridge is shot, the cylinder rotates, readying the next chamber for firing.
Shotgun, Double Barrel: This shot gun has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be shot independently as a separate action, whereas both barrels can be shot at once with the same action. If both barrels are shot, they create the same effect as a normal shot gun, and deals damage as if two shots were fired at the same target. The double barrel shot gun uses a break-action mechanism to load cartridges into its firing chambers.
The following are new proposed equipment and costs.
Cartridge Box: This specially crafted water-tight box is covered in oiled canvas to prevent water from spoiling its contents. Cartridge boxes have either a 25 or 50 cartridge capacity (paper or metal). Paper cartridges stored in a cartridge box maintain their efficacy for twice the normal duration. Cost: 25 capacity 2 gp; 50 capacity 3 gp.
Gunsmith Kit, Masterwork: These tools serve the same purpose as gunsmith tools, but masterwork gunsmith tools are the perfect tools for the job, so you get a +2 circumstance bonus on Craft checks made with them. Cost: 75 gp.
Holster: This leather case is designed to hold a firearm and secure it to the hip or chest (pistol) or to the back (blunderbuss or musket). A holster can contain only one firearm. Cost: one-handed 1 gp; two-handed 3gp.
Powder Horn: This horn-shaped, water-tight container holds 50 doses of black powder. A powder horn dispenses 1 dose of black powder at a time. Cost: 2 gp.
Ramrod: This rod is used to load powder and bullets through the muzzle of a firearm, and is included with the firearm. A ramrod typically has a threaded end for special attachments used to clean the barrel. Cost: 1 gp.
Wand Rifle: This wooden-barrelled device can be loaded with up to two separate wands, enabling its wielder to cycle between them as a free action as desired. The rifle’s slender barrel provides a +1 circumstance bonus on ranged touch attacks with discharged rays. Wand rifles are frequently outfitted with serrated bayonets (see pg. 177 in the Pathfinder Advanced Player’s Guide. Using a wand rifle properly (either with a ray or with its bayonet) requires the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat. For the purpose of adding magical enhancements, the wand rifle’s bayonet is always considered masterwork. The wand rifle itself is not truly a weapon and cannot be enhanced as one. Characters with the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearm) feat can wield a wand rifle without any penalty, while nonspellcasters must have ranks in the Use Magic Device skill to activate the wand effects. Cost: 400 gp.
I would consider changing the Steadfast weapon ability to a +3 bonus and add the following new one.
Moderate enchantment; CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, make whole; Price +5 bonus.
Alright. that's it, I'm done on the gunslinger front. My intent was to provide ideas that would allow the gunslinger to become or remain "the best of the best" with firearms, and incroporate some the "innovation-esque" ideas from our 1.4.0 and 1.5.0 versions from the 1st round of allowing the gunslinger, and only the gunslinger to be able to construct, improve, and enhance their firearms, but maintain the integrity of the parameters of class features and deeds provided in the playtest 2 document.
Enjoy.