Stephen Radney-MacFarland, one of the developers of this playtest, has just ruled that you can fire both barrels of the pistol as one of your attacks in a full attack sequence, getting two attack rolls for the single attack.
Now any gunslinger can double his number of attacks in a full attack doing this!
Imagine a high level gunslinger with two double-barrel pistols, lots of paper cartridges, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Rapid Reload, and Rapid Shot.
He could get 18 attacks in a single round! (4 base + 3 greater two-weapon fighting + 1 rapid shot +1 haste) x 2 double-tapping = 18.
They will be taking some nasty penalties to hit, but the fact that they are all touch attacks means most are likely to hit anyways!
That's 18 chances to score a x4 critical hit. 18 chances to get your grit back.
Assuming you have a crappy 20 Dexterity (you will likely have more) and two +5 weapons, you will regularly be dealing 18d8+180 damage each round!
This needs to be changed before the final is released. I suggest making double tapping an attack action, like vital strike. This will prevent such abuse from happening and also keep closed several other can of worms (such as questions like "can I vital strike with both barrels?" or "does this work with dead shot?").
Take a deep breath -- and realize to get 18 attacks that you take a -8 penalty on every attack with a 15% chance of the gun failing.
That's before deadly aim or anything is factored in.
"Flurry of misses" comes to mind even with the class being full BAB.
Besides is it any worse than the dragon pistol which can hit 6 targets every time you shoot?
That's (rapid shot, haste, greater two weapon fighting, full bab...) 9*6= 54 attacks in one round -- with only a -6 penalty on the attack roll.
If you're firing against touch AC a -8 doesn't change much. With full BAB you have FAR more than you generally need to hit anyways.
The only good point you've made was the increased chances of misfire. Still, misfire chance doesn't keep people from building all the TWF builds I've seen in the playtests, it most certainly won't prevent prople from building this monster.
Take a deep breath -- and realize to get 18 attacks that you take a -8 penalty on every attack with a 15% chance of the gun failing.
That's before deadly aim or anything is factored in.
"Flurry of misses" comes to mind even with the class being full BAB.
Besides is it any worse than the dragon pistol which can hit 6 targets every time you shoot?
That's (rapid shot, haste, greater two weapon fighting, full bab...) 9*6= 54 attacks in one round -- with only a -6 penalty on the attack roll.
im not seeing how youre doing that with twf since you need a free hand to be able to rapidly reload the weapon.
im not seeing how youre doing that with twf since you need a free hand to be able to rapidly reload the weapon.Take a deep breath -- and realize to get 18 attacks that you take a -8 penalty on every attack with a 15% chance of the gun failing.
That's before deadly aim or anything is factored in.
"Flurry of misses" comes to mind even with the class being full BAB.
Besides is it any worse than the dragon pistol which can hit 6 targets every time you shoot?
That's (rapid shot, haste, greater two weapon fighting, full bab...) 9*6= 54 attacks in one round -- with only a -6 penalty on the attack roll.
Quick Draw + Weapon Cords. You drop one as a free action, reload as a free action, then draw it again with Quick Draw. A publisher also said there was likely to be a feat that would allow you to reload without any free hands.
Quick Draw + Weapon Cords. You drop one as a free action, reload as a free action, then draw it again with Quick Draw. A publisher also said there was likely to be a feat that would allow you to reload without any free hands.im not seeing how youre doing that with twf since you need a free hand to be able to rapidly reload the weapon.Take a deep breath -- and realize to get 18 attacks that you take a -8 penalty on every attack with a 15% chance of the gun failing.
That's before deadly aim or anything is factored in.
"Flurry of misses" comes to mind even with the class being full BAB.
Besides is it any worse than the dragon pistol which can hit 6 targets every time you shoot?
That's (rapid shot, haste, greater two weapon fighting, full bab...) 9*6= 54 attacks in one round -- with only a -6 penalty on the attack roll.
what if you changed the ability to fire both barrels as one attack roll that does the damage dice twice instead of two seperate attack rolls, since you technically arent attacking twice but rather shooting both barrels at the same target.
If you're firing against touch AC a -8 doesn't change much. With full BAB you have FAR more than you generally need to hit anyways.
The only good point you've made was the increased chances of misfire. Still, misfire chance doesn't keep people from building all the TWF builds I've seen in the playtests, it most certainly won't prevent prople from building this monster.
A -8 to hit will be enough to turn that touch attack into a normal attack in most cases -- basically your +11 at level 11 turns into a +1 (after rapid shot) -- before deadly aim, cover, et. al. on your first attack... by your last attack you are actually at -9 to hit before modifiers are applied.
If they are out of your first range increment (20 feet normally) it's no longer a touch attack, and you need specialized equipment (paper cartridges at 6 gp a pop minimum plus a glove of storing) and a lenient GM that allows you all the free actions in the world for it to work.
This is on top of all the problems with two weapon builds in the first place (cost of multiple weapons, feat costs, etc).
Consider that the level 11 gunslinger with this that is a human has the following:
Dex 27 (total)
2 x +2 distance double pistols (20,050gp each)
Boots of speed
Feats:
H - Deadly Aim
1st - rapid reload
B - Gunsmith
3rd - point blank shot
4th - precise shot
5th - two weapon fighting
7th - weapon focus
8th - improved two weapon fighting
9th - rapid shot
11th - greater two weapon fighting
(Literally the only build that can do this by the way at level 11)
His attack total:
+11 (BAB) +8(Dex) +2(pistol) +1(weapon focus) + 1 (haste) +1 (point blank shot -- if within 30 feet) = +24
So:
+24 - 4 (two weapon fighting) - 4 (double tap) - 2 (rapid shot) - 3 (deadly aim)= +11/+11(haste)/+11/+11(rapid shot)/+11/+11(main hand)/+11/+11(off hand)/+6/+6(main hand)/+6/+6(off hand)/+1/+1(main hand/+1/+1(off hand)
Even assuming that armor/shields/natural armor accounts for +10 on AC the level 11 monster has an AC of 19~20 on average still.
And your damage? 1d8+2+8+6+1=1d8+18 per shot
im not seeing how youre doing that with twf since you need a free hand to be able to rapidly reload the weapon.
If you have a glove of storing you could do it since you can make your attacks in any order -- basically you would fire all your shots with the main hand, use the glove of storing to get out the second gun put the first in the glove of storing and take all your shots with the second gun.
Why is rapid reload applying a penalty?
BTW with my twf build, I carry extra guns, so I dont really care if I get a misfire, I just won't use that gun again in this combat and fix it later.
If you have a glove of storing you could do it since you can make your attacks in any order -- basically you would fire all your shots with the main hand, use the glove of storing to get out the second gun put the first in the glove of storing and take all your shots with the second gun.
im not seeing how youre doing that with twf since you need a free hand to be able to rapidly reload the weapon.
yes but then you need a magic item to do it. and in low magic games or no magic games it doesnt work out.
i believe you have to make the ability or gear work WITHOUT incorporating magic items into otherwise every gunslinger using that weapon will have to have gloves of storing. if you have to incorporate magic items in to make something work, then it isnt working from the get go and needs to be changed. just MO
Why is rapid reload applying a penalty?
Rapid shot, not rapid reload, sorry.