Better But Still Thinking Ranger


Gunslinger Discussion: Round 2


As many people have said, I do like this version of the Gunslinger a lot more than the first. But even though it's been said that this is now its own core class and not a Fighter variant, I still want to compare it to a Ranger. Both are full BAB classes with d10 HD. Both have the same number of class skills (though a few of those skills are different). Both have all simple and martial weapons and light and (currently) medium armor. The Ranger has shields while the Gunslinger has all firearms. They also get the same number of bonus feats.

Now I'm not saying the Gunslinger should be an alternate Ranger instead of an alternate Fighter like it was before. I like the idea of the Gunslinger being its own class. I'm just comparing it to Ranger for the sake of showing balance. So going by this principle, this is what I would change:

First, the easiest change and something that was mentioned by someone else, give the Gunslinger more skill points per level. Maybe not the same 6+INT as a Ranger, but I do think it should at least be 4+INT. I don't think 6+INT is totally unrealistic though.

Second, I don't like Gun Training. I think adding DEX to damage for ranged weapons should be handled by a feat instead and be available to everyone. I've actually used this feat from Iron Kingdoms in Pathfinder games:

Sharpshooter
The character's aim with his chosen weapon is incredible, allowing him to strike home when others would merely graze or scratch a target.
Prerequisite: Precise Shot, Weapon Focus with ranged weapon.
Benefit: The character adds his Dexterity modifier to damage while using a ranged weapon with which he has the Weapon Focus feat.
Special: A fell caller or fighter may select Sharpshooter as one of her bonus feats.

Some of the details can be changed such as the Prerequisites (like maybe a DEX requirement), but I think this should be available to everyone as part of the Ultimate Combat book. My group has even used a melee version of this feat that has Weapon Finesse as a Prerequisite, among other things. So instead of the current Gun Training, I'd rather see an ability similar to the Fighter's Weapon Training or a Ranger's Favored Enemy. Going off of the Ranger base, I'd get rid of Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain to give them Favored Weapon. It would work exactly like Favored Enemy except you would select any Weapon instead and get the +2 (or more) to attack and damage whenever you use the selected weapon. Now this could be a lot more powerful than Weapon Training if the Gunslinger stacks the same weapon all the way up to the fifth Favored Weapon level, giving a +10 max compared to a Fighters +5, but the Gunslinger would get +10 in one weapon while getting only +2 on the other four while the Fighter gets +5, +4, +3, +2, and +1 between 5 different weapon GROUPS. I don't think it's too overpowered, personally. Especially for a high level character.

And then, going off the Ranger base, you get rid of the Ranger's Spells and Hunter's Bond and their tracking and stealth abilities to give the Gunslinger Grit and Deeds. Now personally, I'm not a big fan of the Grit system. I think with a little work Deeds can just be selectable like Alchemist Discoveries and Rogue Talents. If something is particularly powerful, limited it to X times per day or number of times per day equal to WIS mod. Keeping track of how much Grit you have and when you get some back can be really annoying. But if Grit is here to stay, at the very least I'd like Deeds to be selectable instead of being the same for every Gunslinger similar to how it is suggested here. I mean, what's the point of Quick Clear if your campaign is using nothing but advanced weapons? Does a Gunslinger have to start out of with a Blunderbuss, Musket, or Pistol even if you are playing a Guns Everywhere campaign?

I also think a few Deeds don't make much since as to why they are Deeds. Pistol-Whip being a big one. Minus the knocking prone aspect, there is no reason why any Gunslinger shouldn't be able to just smack people around with their guns as much as they want. Also, Evasive. Why not just give them Evasion and Improved Evasion at or around the same level as Rangers?

I would also like the feats changed to be more like the Ranger's Combat Style feats. Pistoleer (two pistol fighter), Rifleman, and Dueler (pistol and melee weapon combo) are three types of Gunslinger Styles I can think of off the top of my head. This isn't that big of a deal, though. Just a bit of a flavor thing.

And yes, I know it's been said many times that the Touch AC thing is not going to change no matter what, but I really think it makes more since for the guns to hit Flatfooted AC instead as this thread suggests.

Those are pretty much my thoughts on the Round 2 Gunslinger. Much better, but could still use some work when compared to the Ranger and other classes. Looking forward to the final version to see if it will be something that I would actually want to play.

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Ultimate Combat Playtest / Gunslinger Discussion: Round 2 / Better But Still Thinking Ranger All Messageboards
Recent threads in Gunslinger Discussion: Round 2