Tripping with a Weapon


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

I'm new to Pathfinder, but a veteran of D&D 3.0 and 3.5 I'm trying to get into Pathfinder and am in the process of character creation and feat selection.

The main quesion I have now regards Attacks of Opportunity and Tripping.

In 3.5 if you attempted to trip with a weapon with the trip ability it specifically stated you were not subject to attacks of opportunity even if you didn't have the Improved Trip Feat. I can't find anything in the Pathfinder SRD to indicate whether or not the same holds true for Pathfinder or not.

I have my fighter (non-human) equipped with a Guisarme (has reach) and Heavy Flail. both weapons have the trip ability.

1. If i attempt a trip with the Guisarme (has reach) without the Improved Trip feat, am I subject to an AOO?

2. If i attempt a trip with the Heavy Flail without the Improved Trip feat, am I subject to an AOO?

Trying to determine if I want to take Improved Trip at first level (have already selected Combat Expertise) or take Combat Reflexes (I have a +3 DEX bonus) at first and take Improved Trip as my 2nd level Bonus Feat.

and regarding Combat Reflexes, I'm curious if i'm reading the description correctly. the SRD states that "You may make a number of additional attacks of opportunity per round equal to your Dexterity bonus" the key word I'm picking up there is "additional" does this mean that if i have a +3 mod to DEX that I will get a total of 4 attacks of opportunity per round? e.g. I still get my normal 1 AOO, but also get 3 "Additional" AOOs due to my +3 Dex bonus?

In 3.5 it was you can take a number of AOOs "equal" to your Dex Mod. just trying to figure out if this is a tweak between the two systems.

Thanks for any answers you all can provide.

r/

SoD


SeekerOfDragons wrote:

I'm new to Pathfinder, but a veteran of D&D 3.0 and 3.5 I'm trying to get into Pathfinder and am in the process of character creation and feat selection.

The main quesion I have now regards Attacks of Opportunity and Tripping.

In 3.5 if you attempted to trip with a weapon with the trip ability it specifically stated you were not subject to attacks of opportunity even if you didn't have the Improved Trip Feat. I can't find anything in the Pathfinder SRD to indicate whether or not the same holds true for Pathfinder or not.

I have my fighter (non-human) equipped with a Guisarme (has reach) and Heavy Flail. both weapons have the trip ability.

1. If i attempt a trip with the Guisarme (has reach) without the Improved Trip feat, am I subject to an AOO?

2. If i attempt a trip with the Heavy Flail without the Improved Trip feat, am I subject to an AOO?

Trying to determine if I want to take Improved Trip at first level (have already selected Combat Expertise) or take Combat Reflexes (I have a +3 DEX bonus) at first and take Improved Trip as my 2nd level Bonus Feat.

and regarding Combat Reflexes, I'm curious if i'm reading the description correctly. the SRD states that "You may make a number of additional attacks of opportunity per round equal to your Dexterity bonus" the key word I'm picking up there is "additional" does this mean that if i have a +3 mod to DEX that I will get a total of 4 attacks of opportunity per round? e.g. I still get my normal 1 AOO, but also get 3 "Additional" AOOs due to my +3 Dex bonus?

In 3.5 it was you can take a number of AOOs "equal" to your Dex Mod. just trying to figure out if this is a tweak between the two systems.

Thanks for any answers you all can provide.

r/

SoD

As far as I know the only benefit to a "trip" weapon is that you can drop it if your CMB roll was too low, and you should have been tripped because of the fail.

d20pfsrd.com wrote:
Trip: You can use a trip weapon to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped.


SeekerOfDragons wrote:

1. If i attempt a trip with the Guisarme (has reach) without the Improved Trip feat, am I subject to an AOO?

2. If i attempt a trip with the Heavy Flail without the Improved Trip feat, am I subject to an AOO?

Yes, you provoke an AoO in both cases.

Combat Manuvers: Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver.

However, if you trip someone at 10' with the Guisarme, and he doesn't threaten you, he can't hit you.

Trip Weapons: You can use a trip weapon to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped.

The other benefit is if you use a Trip weapon to trip, you get all the weapon-relevant bonuses to your CMB. (Weapon focus, enhancement bonus, etc.)

SeekerOfDragons wrote:


and regarding Combat Reflexes, I'm curious if i'm reading the description correctly. the SRD states that "You may make a number of additional attacks of opportunity per round equal to your Dexterity bonus" the key word I'm picking up there is "additional" does this mean that if i have a +3 mod to DEX that I will get a total of 4 attacks of opportunity per round?

Yes.

Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent.


I too was confused by the whole trip weapon thing- it seems a little vague.

So I gather that you can't make a trip attempt with a non-trip weapon? Seems silly that you can use a guisarme to trip someone but not a ranseur(almost mechanically identical to a guisarme).


Lurk3r wrote:

I too was confused by the whole trip weapon thing- it seems a little vague.

So I gather that you can't make a trip attempt with a non-trip weapon? Seems silly that you can use a guisarme to trip someone but not a ranseur(almost mechanically identical to a guisarme).

Not with the weapon, no. You can still attempt a trip attack with an arm, leg, etc., but risk being tripped in return should you fail.


Yea, you can trip while weilding a non-trip weapon like a ranseur, but you're tripping with your body or the haft or using the a terrain element or whatever flavor text you want to put on it, not using the weapon to trip as a special function of the weapon.

RL Guisame has a little hook shaped blade designed to pull riders off their horse, which a ranseur doesn't have (which is more like a splayed out pitchfork)


Heaven's Agent wrote:
Lurk3r wrote:

I too was confused by the whole trip weapon thing- it seems a little vague.

So I gather that you can't make a trip attempt with a non-trip weapon? Seems silly that you can use a guisarme to trip someone but not a ranseur(almost mechanically identical to a guisarme).

Not with the weapon, no. You can still attempt a trip attack with an arm, leg, etc., but risk being tripped in return should you fail.

+1... A trip attempt is made in place of a melee attack, not as part of it, unless you have a weapon with the "trip" ability.


And as an aside, from a game design standpoint a ranseur and a guisarme are nearly identical mechanically, the greatest difference being that a guisarme is a tripping weapon while a ranseur is a disarming weapon. If a ranseur was both disarming and tripping, it would clearly be a superior choice in most circumstances; what point would there be in having the guisarme in the game at all?

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