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But we've known this for a while. HEREA buried forum post does not make for common knowledge.
I am all for the changes that are being made, but have some issues with their imoplementation.
It's not like this is some strange out-of-the-ordinary thing.
It's the standard rule.
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The date by which a player must update his PC from Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting content to Inner Sea World Guide is the street date of the Inner Sea World Guide (March 23) when the book is assumed to be available in all retail stores and will definitely be available in pdf format on paizo.com. If you have access to the book prior to then, you must update any affected rules to the current version immediately.
The purchasing of equipment and choosing of feats or entry into a PrC from the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting is no longer legal as of yesterday. There remains a two week window between which you can no longer add new content from that source and by which all existing material from it must be converted.
Cross-posted for clarity.
The same principle applies for the Hellknight. You must play the converted class once it becomes available. You cannot create a new Hellknight under the old rules.
Yep, I saw that. But I think it fair to repeat that the Additional Resources pages uses very very different wording.
The Additional Resources page says exactly what you say for the Campaign Setting. It needs to be converted between now and the World Guide release date, you can still play it, and if a new prerequisite was added, you don't need to worry about it.
The Additional Resources page says that the Hellknight from What Lies in Dust is not legal. It may have never been legal. If your Hellknight doesn't have ranks in Knowledge (planes), you don't even meet the prerequisites of your Hellknight levels anymore.
Are you saying that any converted Hellknight doesn't need to meet the new prerequisites of the updated class? Because of the that because of the note in the Campaign Setting section saying, "If the updated version of a feat has prerequisites you no longer meet, you may ignore those prerequisites."
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If someone came to a convention today with a Hellknight with What Lies in Dust in tow and checked to see it was legal to use, the Additional Resources page says absolutely no.And thus the armies of the Thrice damned House Thrune came to a grinding standstill and Cheliax was the laughing stock of the Inner Sea!
Maybe its part of Queen Abrogail's revisionist history doctrine in action.
Creative Director
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In light of the changes we made to the campaign setting in the Inner Sea World Guide (changes brought about for many reasons, from rebalancing options to be less broken or more viable, from adjusting options to more closely model and portray what we want our world to portray, or simply due to the way the game has changed from 3.5 to Pathfinder)... I'm chatting with the PFS guys to see about the viability of allowing full-on rebuilds of characters who used content from the older Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting hardcover.
Personally, I think that allowing players to rebuild their characters when the fundamental underlying assumptions of the game have changed is only fair. The update of the campaign setting hardcover is akin, in a lot of ways, to the update the basic rules went through when we released the Core Rulebook, although a LOT LOT LOT less invasive. But still... in some characters' cases, invasive enough.
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In most cases I'd agree that had this "been known" for a long time the player should be responsible to upgrade, but this one came way out of left field. I don't think any of us expected that they'd update a PrC that's barely a year old in a guide which never covered the PrC in the first place. The only real fair response is for Paizo to update the requirements and let characters built under the original PrC stay "grandfathered in" as they did the retired Campaign Guide feats, otherwise it is in essence forcing players to buy products that they were not aware even in the slightest were due for a change.
I can kind of agree with this, HellKnight was made using the PFRPG rules, so it would be fare to think that it was safe from a remake of the Prestige class.
Though for people who are upset about changes from the 3.5 rules I have less sympathy , you should always assume that anything you take from a book that used 3.5 rules is fair game for a change and should be wary in taking anything from those books because of the high probability they will change.
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Mark has already stated that a print out from a legal copy is good enough. Does no one in your regular group own the book? I do. I can send you a pdf with the pages you need.
There is nothing special about this situation to justify a rebuild of any kind.
Except for maybe the fact that the previous Hellknight benefited from a good Wisdom (smite and a few disciplines) and (depending on the order) a good Charisma and that the new Hellknight doesn't have a special need for Wisdom at all.
If you decided to give your Hellknight a 16 Wisdom and a 11 Charisma, the update might be a bit painful.
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Mark has already stated that a print out from a legal copy is good enough. Does no one in your regular group own the book? I do. I can send you a pdf with the pages you need.
There is nothing special about this situation to justify a rebuild of any kind.
I would not suggest offering up copies (or parts of copies) of your Paizo PDFs on the Paizo forums. Regardless to whether or not you're doing this for the right reasons, I'm fairly certain Paizo would still consider it piracy.
It's one thing to share the paper PDF or book amongst your group, it's another thing entirely to send your PDF to a fellow Pathfinder player simply because they're having tough economic times.
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.. I'm chatting with the PFS guys to see about the viability of allowing full-on rebuilds of characters who used content from the older Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting hardcover.
I didnt play PFS back when it had 3.5 rules, so I havent spent any time looking over the conversion rules from 3.5 to Pathfinder for Society purposes, but I think it needs to be the same ruling now that it was when you guys first had the conversion to PF rules.
If it was supposed to be straight conversion, no rebuild then, it should be straight conversion no rebuild now. Allowing rebuilds from one and not the other is unfair to the group who didnt get to rebuild their characters, and you might wind up upsetting many long-standing PFS players by changing the company stance on rebuild now.
I dont particularly care one way or the other what it winds up being, as I dont, and neither do any of our locals, play a Hellknight, but Id hate to see people get upset and possibly quit due to a change in company stance on rebuilding characters.
On topic: Your friend might be upset about his character not being legit until he has the book, but in his situation, I think if he eventually intends to purchase the book, that'll help him along. I am a DM on our local scene, but dont have Seeker of Secrets, cause I didnt know I HAD to have it til a couple weeks ago. I feel bad about not having it now, but my lgs hasnt gotten it in yet (hopefully Saturday they will, lol), and I intend to buy it first chance I get.
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Mark has already stated that a print out from a legal copy is good enough. Does no one in your regular group own the book? I do. I can send you a pdf with the pages you need.
There is nothing special about this situation to justify a rebuild of any kind.
I would not suggest offering up copies (or parts of copies) of your Paizo PDFs on the Paizo forums. Regardless to whether or not you're doing this for the right reasons, I'm fairly certain Paizo would still consider it piracy.
It's one thing to share the paper PDF or book amongst your group, it's another thing entirely to send your PDF to a fellow Pathfinder player simply because they're having tough economic times.
I'm not offering to send them to the world. I'm offering to help out one person with 'special' circumstances. Chris, send me your email address and I'll send your buddy what he needs.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Galliard, you are super-cool. Seriously.
As it turns out, the situation's been resolved to everyone's satisfaction. He's starting a new character, but arrangements have been made* so that he'll be able to play the Ranger/Hellknight when he wants to.
* I understand that sounds vague. I'm honoring confidences.
Oh, and godsDMit, back when the campaign switched over from 3.5 to Pathfinder, there was a one-time free rebuild-anything-you-like. All you had to keep was your character's name, faction, experience, and underwear. Everything else was free to change. "Periwinkle was an 8th-level elven sorceress of Taldor under the 3.5 rules. Now Periwinkle is a jive-talking half-orc cavalier. But he's still 8th-level, and still takes his orders from Taldor."
I'm not offering to send them to the world. I'm offering to help out one person with 'special' circumstances. Chris, send me your email address and I'll send your buddy what he needs.Mark has already stated that a print out from a legal copy is good enough. Does no one in your regular group own the book? I do. I can send you a pdf with the pages you need.
There is nothing special about this situation to justify a rebuild of any kind.
I would not suggest offering up copies (or parts of copies) of your Paizo PDFs on the Paizo forums. Regardless to whether or not you're doing this for the right reasons, I'm fairly certain Paizo would still consider it piracy.
It's one thing to share the paper PDF or book amongst your group, it's another thing entirely to send your PDF to a fellow Pathfinder player simply because they're having tough economic times.
Sharing the PDFs you've downloaded from Paizo with other people is generally against the rules. (Specific to this situation, I believe the organized play rules require printouts to have a watermark with your name.)
There isn't a lot we can do to stop you from providing your PDFs to your friends and gaming group, and, after all, you could loan such people your physical books. However, it is worth noting that if a person you're loaned your PDFs to loans them out to another and they eventually end up where they're not supposed to, it is your watermark that will be found.
One thing that might be helpful in this situation, however, is that we allow PDFs to be purchased as gifts. Perhaps someone could step up and gift this fellow the PDF of the World Guide?
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Sharing the PDFs you've downloaded from Paizo with other people is generally against the rules. (Specific to this situation, I believe the organized play rules require printouts to have a watermark with your name.)
Just to clarify, we simply require a printout of the pdf or a pdf on a screen the GM can read.
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Oh, and godsDMit, back when the campaign switched over from 3.5 to Pathfinder, there was a one-time free rebuild-anything-you-like. All you had to keep was your character's name, faction, experience, and underwear. Everything else was free to change. "Periwinkle was an 8th-level elven sorceress of Taldor under the 3.5 rules. Now Periwinkle is a jive-talking half-orc cavalier. But he's still 8th-level, and still takes his orders from Taldor."
Butbutbut...what if they had to change their underwear? Paladins of Iomedae might have been in trouble back then, I guess.
Annnnnnnywho, thats cool. Sounds like a good reason to allow the rebuild to me, lol.
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I think it's one thing to say "I'm going through some hard financial times and this seems like a unfair and unexpected cost" vs. saying "it's either PFS or feeding my kid." One of these seems like a toss up, the other seems like a no-brainer.
Maybe OP is throwing in a bit of hyperbole in describing the situation or maybe that's how it actually is. I hope it is more hyperbole than the latter.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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In light of player feedback regarding the changes to some rules elements with the release of the Inner Sea World Guide, we have issued guidelines for rebuilding characters in certain situations. Please see the stickied thread here.