
Fraust |

Deeds
Pistol-Whip
I like this and I don't. Spending one point of grit to be hit someone with your pistol? The bonuses (extra +2, plus enhancement) is neat, but I'm not sure. Personally, I think this should be toned down and just be something gunslingers can always do, or made just a little better. As is I don't think I would opt to use it very often.
Covering Shot
Not sure that I like the mechanics of this (though I like the idea behind the ability). I don't have a better suggestion though...
Targeting
Yeah, this is getting dropped right off the bat in my group. I hope to god this is removed from the final version...as I can see the fit that will be thrown by everyone wanting to know why a gunslinger can call shots but archers, crosbowmen, and everyone else can't. Also, why do you take damage from getting shot in the leg but not the arm?
Utility Shot
I'm completely lost as to why three deeds were listed as one. Not to mention one of the three shouldn't exist (in my opinion). We have rules for attacking objects. Why should shooting them work any different when your a gunslinger than anyone else?
Scoot Object...is strange. Shooting a diminutive object within your first range increment is AC 10, though even if you miss you hit the object...so really you can't miss at all. I'm seeing a sure fire way to win money in a tavern "I'll bet you that coin purse I can shoot the apple on her head...blind folded, shooting over my shoulder, while drunk, and being tickled..."
Stop Bleeding...I like a lot. I'm not sure how often it'll come up in game though. As a DM, sure I can set things up so the gunslinger can do his neat obscure (and very flavorfull) trick, though as a player I'm looking at this and thinking I'll never get to use it. Also, am I wrong in assuming you cannot make the shot meaningful before cauterizing? Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong, but that's what it implies to me.
Gunsmithing:
This is a good answer to the "can I kill the gunslinger now and divide up his stuff?" problem. It suffers a little in that all gunslingers begin with a poor quality gun...which may or may not clash with some character background/concepts, but it's only a little. One slight issue I have is why another gunslinger (especially of higher level) couldn't make use of another's firearm? Also, is there ever a way to remove this condition?
Grit:
Personally I don't care for the name of this ability. Similarities with the recent remade movie are a large part of it. I am one of those people who refuses to get caught up in the naming of things though, so this is a very very small issue.
I like the redo on how you earn back grit. Making "daring acts" an optional rule is a good idea I think...though I'm old school enough that I just inherently think of everything as optional if the DM wants it that way. Removing the limit to one person killed earning you grit may cause problems, as someone brought up before, with people upset "the gunslinger keeps stealing my kills!" but honestly, this isn't halo...if people are truly bothered by this I think you have other problems.
Deeds:
Deadeye looks like one hell of a drain on your grit...I like the idea of it costing more the further away you are...I'm just not sure a character would use this that often.
Gunslinger's Dodge seems like this should scale with level...as that +2 sounds good at low level but maybe not so hot at higher. Also...what constitutes a ranged attack? Can I hop out of the area of a spell like lightning bolt with this? I love the concept, I'm just not sure the mechanics work as well as they should.
Quick Clear is still a solid ability.
Gunslinger's Initiative confuses me. So instead of drawing the firearm as a free action with quickdraw, you draw it as part of the initiative check...which gains you what?
Pistol Whip is neat, but I think very fringe-situational. It costs grit, so the idea of the boarding pirate running out guns blazing and then cracking skulls with the butt of the gun isn't going to work through this ability...you're just not going to have the points to continually do it. I would just use Caught Off Guard, and maybe use this every so often when I had a magic gun. If I'm understanding it right, you can't get multiple attacks with this? So by the time you have a gun worth doing this with...you can't take advantage of being that high of level. I don't know...again, I love the concept, but am not impressed with the mechanics.
Utility Shot is where I have the most problems...
Blast Lock is a complete waste of word count in my opinion. This is something as a player I'm looking at thinking: when am I ever going to use this? Once or twice in a campaign? As a DM I'm thinking: I need to go through and recalculate how difficult everything I've "locked up" is to get at now so I don't get caught with my pants down...
Scoot Object is better than it was (damage object normally saved this) but is still screwy. You have no chance to just miss with this ability...you either move the object, or damage it...that just doesn't seem right to me. Otherwise I think it's a neat ability, though very very situational.
Stop Bleeding is just fun. As someone who has had field cauterization done on me, and done it on others...I get a kick out of the imagery this creates...but for one, VERY VERY SITUATIONAL...and two, what about a gunslinger makes them the only one able to do this?
Dead Shot makes up for it's lacking name with a really neat ability. This is something I think crossbow fans have been wanting to see for a while...But more to the point, it all makes sense to me except the critical part. Say I'm a 7th level gunslinger, specialized with my chosen firearm (who's critical is 20 x4), and not possessing any other applicable bonuses. I roll my two attacks, and one crits, and the other just hits. For damage do I roll 1d12+2 for the hit, plus 1d12+2x4 for the crit? Then what happens if both crit? 1d12+2x4 plus 1d12+2x4?
Startling Shot is horrible. It's not going to break the game horrible, but it's going to get houseruled in my game horrible. So the first level gunslinger misses the twentieth level lich and the lich is automatically flat-footed? I don't think so. I'm not cool with giving a character the ability to just declare someone flat footed at range...no resistance...no chance for failure...just bam, you're getting snuck attack by everyone.
Targeting...makes me sad. I have a hard enough time explaining to some of my fellow older players that Pathfinder doesn't support called shots, and that no I don't implements house rules that involve called shots. But hey, now Pathfinder does support called shots...just so long as you're playing a specific class...no thanks. I would honestly consider banning this class from use in any game I run just to preempt the arguments I'm sure this ability is going to cause.
Bleeding Wound feels a little random, but I've no true complaints about it.
Expert Loading...lets you keep a firearm from blowing up....again, I try not to get too hung up on names. This might be a little late in the game, but I'm cool with it.
Lightning Reload is mechanically sound, but I'm not fond of someone speedloading these types of firearms...but yadda yadda, fantasy world, dragons fly, people fart lightning, it's cool. I do have to ask why Deft Shootist exists? You pick the feet up at lower levels, and at 11th it becomes completely redundant? hmm...I don't think this would get my vote in the Superstar competition...
Evasive...at 15th? huh...
Menacing Shot...30'? huh...(I really like this, I'm just puzzled on the short range). Also, I understand why this is based on charisma...as intimidate is based on charisma...but look at it from this point of view. 1st-14th charisma doesn't matter one bit...and now that you get to 15th a class ability is based around it? Can we please just base grit on charisma? Please?
Slinger's Luck seems solid. Again, feels a little late in the game, but you can't have everything at first right?
Death's Shot...I like this a lot, a whole lot actually. I would rather this be a 15th level ability, as it's a really cool ability and 19th is just so very close to curtain call...I would be careful of statements like "true death" though...as I really want this to keep people from being resurrected now...
Stunning Shot...19th? Again, I'm not fond of the auto no dex (at least this time you have to hit first), but really...19th?
YAY BONUS FEATS!
YAY DEX TO DAMAGE!
I'm not impressed with true grit in either name or performance...but capstones are the least of my concern. I'll let those more interested in high level play dissect it.

Karjak Rustscale |

Agreed on Pistol Whip, it shout be a "if you have at least 1 grit you can" with the stipulation of spending a Grit to attempt the Trip maneuver.
thusly you're armed in melee by smaking people with your gun.
Scoot Object is so far my favourite Gunslinger ability, it's just so Quirky that you can't help but love it, in the same way everyone loves the kitten that walks kind of funny. Plus y'know, shoot someone's arms, make them drop their weapon, and then shoot it away, at least I think it lets you do that, though Weapon size categories are kind of weird.
the Cauterize Wound thing seems like a utility party thing for when your Cleric has gone down and you don't have time to pull out a potion of cure light, just BANG no longer dieing, giving you a couple seconds to maybe make it through the encounter. Very Gunslingery, and I feel daring enough to warrant earning a Grit Point.
Gunslinger's Initiative I think is supposed to be Quick Draw and a mild Improved Initiative all rolled into one, to save you a feat and a half, and with how feat starved the Gunslinger is, I personally appreciate it.
Dead Shot could definitely use a better name, and the wording for a Crit could definitely be better, but I read somewhere else recently that you only Misfire during a "dead shot" if all of your attacks misfire, making it pretty awesome, benefits of a crit added in, with a bit more stability for your gun. Plus y'know, works awesome with Rifle-class guns because they only get one shot a round anyways. (rapid reload and alchemical cartridges only get you to move action equivalent, unless metal cartridges can be used with a non-advanced gun, getting you to free)
Stunning Shot, Startling Shot and Targetting will probably have saves when the Gunslinger is officially released, Stunning shot already being confirmed to be getting a save, based off of Wisdom apparently, making the Gunslinger's Wisdom vastly more useful.
Evasive should come sooner, I mean, it's Evasion and Improved Uncanny Dodge, a level 2 and level 8 ability for classes that get them, Ranger gets evasion at 9th, maybe make it 11th so that you can get access to them in PFS (I think that goes to 12th anyways) and all of the APs.
Menacing shot should be Wisdom Based for the same reason you said, 1-14th Charisma does nothing, whereas Wisdom is your driving "i do things" Stat, and Changing one ability from Charisma to Wisdom is less Wonky than Changing them all to Charisma, plus there's very few races that are Dex/Wis as their positives, but several are Dex/Cha. /shrug it works either way.
Death's shot is good where it is, making it equivalent to other classes taht get death attacks, except for PrC's who kind of need the early Death attack to be good at what they do (here's looking at you Assassin and master spy multiclass.)
and that's enough for my thread Jacking for counter Opinions >.>

ShadowWolfie |

Gunsmithing
Cool, fine just the way it is.
Grit
I feel like if it is going to be used in the final version, the base should be raised. Probably to 3 + Wis mod. Although Fraust does bring up a valid point, this should definitely be charisma-based since it is relying on force of personality (at least for the daring acts) of the gunslinger. The more I think about it though, grit should be taken out entirely and deeds should be more like rogue talents and rage powers. I foresee "kill stealing" a problem for gunslingers.
Deadeye
I do think more grit should be used for more range increments.
Pistol-whip
I agree, except maybe about adding enhancement bonuses to the attack. Shields can be used as weapons but you don't add their enhancement bonuses to attack rolls with them, so why should firearms? Just add rules for bayonets to the rules and then you can make melee attacks with firearms. Problem solved.
Utility Shot
I agree for the most part. Blast Lock seems pretty useful and the mechanics of it seem just fine. Item Scooting is cool but since it is impossible to miss a fine or diminutive item, that just seems a little odd to me. I just think if you're going to shoot at an object with a freaken bullet, you're going to do damage to it if you hit it so you either hit it and move it or you miss it. Stop bleeding works just fine IMO, just very situational.
Dead Shot
Should definitely be renamed and should definitely be clarified better.
Startling Shot
It does seem like a cheap ability. It should either be within a certain range or be adjacent to the gunslinger.
Targeting
It does seem to not fit into normal rules of play but it does seem like a REALLY cool ability. It definitely seems that now that rules for shot calling exist that what is to stop others from wanting to do it with a bow, crossbow or even a throwning axe?
Evasive
I don't see why they get Improved Uncanny Dodge. I also think they should get evasion at a lower level too.
I also think that gunslingers should get more feats, not a necessity because I think that might make them too much like fighters.
These are my thoughts.