I believe that called shots are being put in Ultimate Combat along with the Gunslinger, so Targeting won't be unique. Which is why I'm waiting to see that before I make a call on Targeting being overpowered. If most or all the other martial classes can pick up something similar, I'd say it's balanced.
I've come across 2 additional changes I would like to see.
1. Stunning Shot should have a save. Being automatic allows for the possibility of infinite stun lock loops which are pure action denial (literally, stunned means you cannot take an action).
2. Gunslinger save DCs should use Wis instead of Dex as the abilities that grant saves are tied to Grit which is Wis based and Dex is a borderline super-stat (AC, reflex save, initiative, several skills, and ranged attacks).
Stunning shot will have a save in the final version.
Saving throws will be based on Wis...including the one for stunning shot.
Bravery will be replaced. I think you will like the replacement, but we are still discussing its final form.
Don't expect to get medium armor with the final gunslinger.
I've come across 2 additional changes I would like to see.
1. Stunning Shot should have a save. Being automatic allows for the possibility of infinite stun lock loops which are pure action denial (literally, stunned means you cannot take an action).
2. Gunslinger save DCs should use Wis instead of Dex as the abilities that grant saves are tied to Grit which is Wis based and Dex is a borderline super-stat (AC, reflex save, initiative, several skills, and ranged attacks).
Stunning shot will have a save in the final version.
Saving throws will be based on Wis...including the one for stunning shot.
Bravery will be replaced. I think you will like the replacement, but we are still discussing its final form.
Don't expect to get medium armor with the final gunslinger.
Can you give us a hint on what bravery will be replaced by?
Can you give us a hint on what bravery will be replaced by?I've come across 2 additional changes I would like to see.
1. Stunning Shot should have a save. Being automatic allows for the possibility of infinite stun lock loops which are pure action denial (literally, stunned means you cannot take an action).
2. Gunslinger save DCs should use Wis instead of Dex as the abilities that grant saves are tied to Grit which is Wis based and Dex is a borderline super-stat (AC, reflex save, initiative, several skills, and ranged attacks).
Stunning shot will have a save in the final version.
Saving throws will be based on Wis...including the one for stunning shot.
Bravery will be replaced. I think you will like the replacement, but we are still discussing its final form.
Don't expect to get medium armor with the final gunslinger.
Let's just say when if the gunslinger loses medium armors, she will not be too saddened by the loss.
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I've come across 2 additional changes I would like to see.
1. Stunning Shot should have a save. Being automatic allows for the possibility of infinite stun lock loops which are pure action denial (literally, stunned means you cannot take an action).
2. Gunslinger save DCs should use Wis instead of Dex as the abilities that grant saves are tied to Grit which is Wis based and Dex is a borderline super-stat (AC, reflex save, initiative, several skills, and ranged attacks).
Stunning shot will have a save in the final version.
Saving throws will be based on Wis...including the one for stunning shot.
Bravery will be replaced. I think you will like the replacement, but we are still discussing its final form.
Don't expect to get medium armor with the final gunslinger.
+1 to all of these changes.
yeeea boi wis bonus to AC.
anyway...
sounds good.
Its still feat starved and lacking in the lower levels. It also thinks bravery is a useful class feature. The starting gun is now a piece of crap. Honestly I don't see much better with this. It stills sucks at lower levels and is only subpar until lightning reload, which is no a below average class feature. Honestly, I don't see much improvement.
Its still feat starved and lacking in the lower levels. It also thinks bravery is a useful class feature. The starting gun is now a piece of crap. Honestly I don't see much better with this. It stills sucks at lower levels and is only subpar until lightning reload, which is no a below average class feature. Honestly, I don't see much improvement.
Really? How is it a piece of crap? that you can't kill a party member and get an automatic 1k gp? Or that you can't fight an enemy gunslinger and have the same result?
For this class, bravery is pointless. It's not really a Gunslinger "thing."
They are a tad bit feat starved, but if you plan the character accordingly, you shouldn't really have that much of a problem. If you have to, take 2 levels of Fighter
Let's just say when if the gunslinger loses medium armors, she will not be too saddened by the loss.
gosh, I hope she keeps her Medium Armor. I'm planning on Playing a Fem-dwarf that wears a Chainshirt with Armored Kilt, though I guess I can just take a level of Fighter for the Armor Proficiency and that Bonus feat, but I'd rather not :(
Unless the Replacement for bravery is something like a scaling AC bonus like the Monk's
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Its still feat starved and lacking in the lower levels. It also thinks bravery is a useful class feature. The starting gun is now a piece of crap. Honestly I don't see much better with this. It stills sucks at lower levels and is only subpar until lightning reload, which is no a below average class feature. Honestly, I don't see much improvement.Really? How is it a piece of crap? that you can't kill a party member and get an automatic 1k gp? Or that you can't fight an enemy gunslinger and have the same result?
For this class, bravery is pointless. It's not really a Gunslinger "thing."
They are a tad bit feat starved, but if you plan the character accordingly, you shouldn't really have that much of a problem. If you have to, take 2 levels of Fighter
I think the feat starvation could be fixed with a variation on the ranger combat style chain. (Single Pistol, Long Gun, dual pistols, shotgun) that makes the gunslinger focus on a specific firearm, but gives him the needed feats to be able to do so effectively without being so feat starved by the pre-requisites.
Personally, I think could make most of the deeds into straight gunslinger feats and have the system work that way, as well as giving the gunslinger specific gunslinger only proficiencies with his weapon of choice, for example able to reload first as a swift at 6th, then as a free action at 11th. Reduced misfire chances, until eventually gunslingers don't have to worry about them, etc...
The key is to make these special abilities gunslinger only, with the ability to acquire most of them coming at appropriate levels so people aren't just level dipping.
Ideally, you should image what each type of gunslinger you want (long gun, single pistol, dual pistol, shotgun, etc...) and then make a combat mastery list/chain that can facilitate that at level appropriate effectiveness.
Let's just say when if the gunslinger loses medium armors, she will not be too saddened by the loss.
gosh, I hope she keeps her Medium Armor. I'm planning on Playing a Fem-dwarf that wears a Chainshirt with Armored Kilt, though I guess I can just take a level of Fighter for the Armor Proficiency and that Bonus feat, but I'd rather not :(
Unless the Replacement for bravery is something like a scaling AC bonus like the Monk's
What about creating an option for every fighter? Swap heavy Armor Proficency and/or Tower Shield Proficency for 4 skill points/level?
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What about creating an option for every fighter? Swap heavy Armor Proficency and/or Tower Shield Proficency for 4 skill points/level?Let's just say when if the gunslinger loses medium armors, she will not be too saddened by the loss.
gosh, I hope she keeps her Medium Armor. I'm planning on Playing a Fem-dwarf that wears a Chainshirt with Armored Kilt, though I guess I can just take a level of Fighter for the Armor Proficiency and that Bonus feat, but I'd rather not :(
Unless the Replacement for bravery is something like a scaling AC bonus like the Monk's
There was something like this in the campaign setting under fighters, but I don't have it nearby.
There was something like this in the campaign setting under fighters, but I don't have it nearby.What about creating an option for every fighter? Swap heavy Armor Proficency and/or Tower Shield Proficency for 4 skill points/level?Let's just say when if the gunslinger loses medium armors, she will not be too saddened by the loss.
gosh, I hope she keeps her Medium Armor. I'm planning on Playing a Fem-dwarf that wears a Chainshirt with Armored Kilt, though I guess I can just take a level of Fighter for the Armor Proficiency and that Bonus feat, but I'd rather not :(
Unless the Replacement for bravery is something like a scaling AC bonus like the Monk's
IIRC, was 1 feat -- > 4 skill point. Interesting indeed. Why not have both options ;)
IIRC, was 1 feat -- > 4 skill point. Interesting indeed. Why not have both options ;)There was something like this in the campaign setting under fighters, but I don't have it nearby.What about creating an option for every fighter? Swap heavy Armor Proficency and/or Tower Shield Proficency for 4 skill points/level?Let's just say when if the gunslinger loses medium armors, she will not be too saddened by the loss.
gosh, I hope she keeps her Medium Armor. I'm planning on Playing a Fem-dwarf that wears a Chainshirt with Armored Kilt, though I guess I can just take a level of Fighter for the Armor Proficiency and that Bonus feat, but I'd rather not :(
Unless the Replacement for bravery is something like a scaling AC bonus like the Monk's
The skill boosting feats seem to indicate 1 feat ~ 3 skill points
The skill boosting feats seem to indicate 1 feat ~ 3 skill pointsIIRC, was 1 feat -- > 4 skill point. Interesting indeed. Why not have both options ;)There was something like this in the campaign setting under fighters, but I don't have it nearby.What about creating an option for every fighter? Swap heavy Armor Proficency and/or Tower Shield Proficency for 4 skill points/level?Let's just say when if the gunslinger loses medium armors, she will not be too saddened by the loss.
gosh, I hope she keeps her Medium Armor. I'm planning on Playing a Fem-dwarf that wears a Chainshirt with Armored Kilt, though I guess I can just take a level of Fighter for the Armor Proficiency and that Bonus feat, but I'd rather not :(
Unless the Replacement for bravery is something like a scaling AC bonus like the Monk's
You mean, the exchange is too advantageous. something like the Combat Cleric with no domain and full BAB.
You mean, the exchange is too advantageous. something like the Combat Cleric with no domain and full BAB.The skill boosting feats seem to indicate 1 feat ~ 3 skill pointsIIRC, was 1 feat -- > 4 skill point. Interesting indeed. Why not have both options ;)There was something like this in the campaign setting under fighters, but I don't have it nearby.What about creating an option for every fighter? Swap heavy Armor Proficency and/or Tower Shield Proficency for 4 skill points/level?Let's just say when if the gunslinger loses medium armors, she will not be too saddened by the loss.
gosh, I hope she keeps her Medium Armor. I'm planning on Playing a Fem-dwarf that wears a Chainshirt with Armored Kilt, though I guess I can just take a level of Fighter for the Armor Proficiency and that Bonus feat, but I'd rather not :(
Unless the Replacement for bravery is something like a scaling AC bonus like the Monk's
Yeah, a flat 4 skill points is reasonable if you plan on going to high level because of boost to those skill feats, but it'll be a definite boost early on. However, 4 skill points per level is obscene.
Maybe the exchange is too advantageous, but 1 feat = 3 skill points.. I'm not sure this is correct.
The power of feats like that is the increase of the top in the skill (level + 6, or even +9, instead of level +3). Not sure is fair compare them with 3 mere skill points.
Those feats are not that powerful. useful, but definitively not the most powerful ones.
I wonder if losing heavy armor, towershield and the 1st level feat together could be enough, then.
Maybe the exchange is too advantageous, but 1 feat = 3 skill points.. I'm not sure this is correct.
The power of feats like that is the increase of the top in the skill (level + 6, or even +9, instead of level +3). Not sure is fair compare them with 3 mere skill points.
Those feats are not that powerful. useful, but definitively not the most powerful ones.
I wonder if losing heavy armor, towershield and the 1st level feat together could be enough, then.
Giving extra skill points at each level is immensely powerful, there's a reason why despite only having two bonuses that human is overall the best race. Doing a comparison of races, getting +1 skill point per level is about on par with 1.5-2 feats. Also the loss of proficiencies is only a pseudo-penalty since a fair number of fighter builds don't use heavy armor or tower shields.
Much Better!There is a change I would still like to see:
Pistol Whip - Change it from costing 1 grit to "as long as the gunslinger has 1 grit point" with the free action CMB check to knock the target prone costing 1 grit.
I too like the class a lot more and have to heartly agree with Freesword on it being a freebee as long as 1 grit remains.
I think the pistol whip damage is a bit on the highside myself so taking it down a notch (d6 to D4, D10 to D8) would balance against the free nature of the attack.
Not sure if knocking the opponent prone is really needed however - prehaps a free attack to damage and if the char wants the OPTION of prone-ing the target, spend a grit.
If it is grit dependent then keep it's original damage it should do more if you have to spend grit.
so if you have at least 1 grit it does 1d4 instead or 1d6 etc, and if you spend 1 grit it does damage as listed 1d6/1d10 plus the ability to knock prone.|
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You mean, the exchange is too advantageous. something like the Combat Cleric with no domain and full BAB.The skill boosting feats seem to indicate 1 feat ~ 3 skill pointsIIRC, was 1 feat -- > 4 skill point. Interesting indeed. Why not have both options ;)There was something like this in the campaign setting under fighters, but I don't have it nearby.What about creating an option for every fighter? Swap heavy Armor Proficency and/or Tower Shield Proficency for 4 skill points/level?Let's just say when if the gunslinger loses medium armors, she will not be too saddened by the loss.
gosh, I hope she keeps her Medium Armor. I'm planning on Playing a Fem-dwarf that wears a Chainshirt with Armored Kilt, though I guess I can just take a level of Fighter for the Armor Proficiency and that Bonus feat, but I'd rather not :(
Unless the Replacement for bravery is something like a scaling AC bonus like the Monk's
In defense, it is two domains and all the associated domain powers. That is actually a lot to give up...the feat may still be a bit overpowered, but two domains is nothing to sneeze at.
And it is two additional skill points, not three. Still, far more powerful than say, skill focus...