Gunslinger V2 Review

[Kenjishinomouri]

Alright, We now have an updated Gunslinger class, I Really want to test play this one, I didn’t Test play the last one Because I didn’t feel that what we were presented Would work in game but This new update I think could be a Viable character option and below I will discuss why.

The first thing I notice is it no longer says its a fighter alt class, which is good and bad. Good because now You can mix and match levels in the two if you wish. Bad because now they no longer qualify for fighter bonus feats.

Next I look at skills, The update has more class skill options which is nice because you now have a little more utility than the fighter, but the low points per level keeps them from stepping on the toes of the more skill based classes.

Gunsmith Is good because they fixed most of the problems from the last playtest, Now GMs can use gunslingers without throwing off wealth. Now the feat that goes along with this, gives me some slight problems. What does this mean for crafting, can someone without the feat use the craft skill with its normal rules to craft, the stuff and does all gunsmithing do is let you craft without the skill. Im not 100% behind this feat, but I think its a step in the right direction.

For grit, changing Daring act to a sidebar makes way more sense, Other than that im slightly disappointed their were no changes to grit. Deeds the Most noticeable change is Utility shot is now a Third level ability, Im Completely behind this Because at 11th level I felt the ability sucked but now gunslingers have stuff to do at lower levels other than just shoot things.

I like that the class now just has Good fort and Ref saves and has bravery again. But now Im wondering if it is supposed to be a fighter alt class again?

The cange’s to the Secret stash feat work for me. It now states combat tho, so does that mean if you need a bullet to shoot a lock outside of combat you cant use this feat? Also, While Im on feats I noticed that all the Deed feats have another added bonus so Im now more okay with Deeds being added as a feats instead of being their own class ability.

Finally the new guns look fun, and Im glad they decided to address all types including advanced Firearms. The Sidebar discussing guns is great to solidify This as an alternate rule, but I did just notice after reading it, Gunslinger is stated as an Alt class so I guess it still is an alt Fighter. The New Ammo Equipment Should Help gunslingers be more effective at Earlier levels.

So In summary, The Updates on paper make this class look like it could be played in game.

Thank you Paizo for letting us be part of the Creation process.

[Javell DeLeon]

You can now apply Deadly Aim to it. That's cool.

I was slighty disappointed in the fact it no longer functions as a fighter because the Weapon Specialization tree would have been awesome, but having said that, there's three more feats you can use for something else.

And you can now replace grit everytime you drop someone. Obviously there are a few stipulations but at least it's no longer limited to the first time each day. (I missed that part in the intial playtest but I've read it three times and don't think I've got it wrong this time.)

I think it's a great upgrade.

I actually don't have an issue with the gunsmithing part. Having only 2+ skill points per level, it avoids having to put ranks into it.

I'm just glad they didn't take away the touch AC attack. That to me is just flat awesome!

All in all, I like it. Kudos to you cats at Paizo. Keep up the fine work! :)

[Rogue Drake]

I think that the whole touch attack concept is grossly overpowered. It means that no matter who you are, the gunslinger WILL hit you. There is no way anyone else can possibly come close to duplicating this, and with the damage output and rate of fire of firearms, it makes them on the 'very' side of broken.

Gunslingers are two ability classes. All they need is DEX and WIS. They get enough HP that they can forgo putting a lot into CON, their STR scores don't help them at all with their combat abilities, they don't need skill points so INT is marginalized, only 3 out of 15 skills get a bonus from CHA, so that's a dump stat. No other class has only two critical skills. Making their grit based off of their CHA scores will help make it even out. WIS would be too important due to perception and the will save to be forgone.

The grit system seems to be overly reliant on having a firearm be the only tool of the gunslinger. There seem to be only two grit abilities that do not use firearms in an immediate way (shooting etc) I am reminded of homer simpson using a revolver to open beers and turn on his TV. If you should think 'well duh, its a GUNslinger, GUNS should be required, then why exactly can this same class turn around and use all martial weapons and medium armors? The grit powers need to be more generalized so that you don't have to rely only on one tool (which inherently breaks 5% of the time) to do your class abilities. Creating a list of abilities that is much more far reaching to include abilities that emulate things like a barbarian's raging leap, or the rogue's opportunist will allow people to be more useful in non combat situations that do not require the use of a firearm.

There are basically three types of gun users that can be applied to settings like Pathfinder.
1) the musketeer. A very dexterous and intelligent swordsman who uses muskets when the enemy isnt in sword range. Formally trained and with high social ranks, these types should have d8 hp, lots of skills, class abilities based off of acrobatics, weapon finesse, and fighting with two weapons; and everything but heavy armor proficiency.
2) the frontiersman. A dexterous and wise outdoors-man getting by with his wit and skills with his long ranged rifle. When the enemy closes, they'll pull out a hatchet or shortsword and fight in a melee. Self trained woodsman, these types should have simple and specific weapons, light armor, mid range skills, class abilities based off of hunting, surviving, causing mayhem among the enemy, and woodcraft; and d10s for hitpoints.
3) the cowboy. A very dexterous and intelligent horseman. When he encounters trouble in the wilderness or in town he brutes his way through it with a mix of a gun, knife, and fists. These types should have a bevy of class skills that relate to their horsemanship and martial prowess to include bonus feats, mid level skills, d10s, simple and specific weapons, and light armor.

With the current way that the gunslinger is written, there is no way to play any of those varieties of gunman. There is a complete lack of support for any martial ability that doesn't require the use of a firearm, making this a very inflexible and static class.

I'll come back with something a bit more constructive once I can figure out how to defuse some of the issues noted above.