Protection from energy grants immunity?


Rules Questions


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"Protection from energy grants temporary immunity to the type of energy you specify when you cast it (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic). When the spell absorbs 12 points per caster level of energy damage (to a maximum of 120 points at 10th level), it is discharged."

If I cast Protection From Energy (fire) on myself at 10th-caster level, and I get breathed by an ancient red dragon for 150 fire damage, do I take no damage (because I am immune at the time of the attack) and then the spell is discharged? Or does the spell absorb 120 damage and I take 30?

Sovereign Court

The spell absorbs 120 and you take 30. The first sentence of most spells is almost always fluff text (or includes some).

Edit: Using the term immunity is really bad on the writer's part...


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Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:

The spell absorbs 120 and you take 30. The first sentence of most spells is almost always fluff text (or includes some).

Edit: Using the term immunity is really bad on the writer's part...

You sure about that? It looks like I could take 110 damage in one round (taking none and leaving 10 points left in the pool) and then take 110 damage again in the next round (again taking none and discharging the spell thereby costing me my temporary immunity).

If this is the case, then it really feels like it's worth the 3rd-level slot to me.

Sovereign Court

I'm not 100% sure but it seems that damage in excess of the remaining 'pool' of resistance should carry over.

Otherwise that spell just got a LOT better at any level that can cast it.


look at it this way, if it can absorb 120 points of damage, and you are hit for 150 it discharges as soon as it takes 120 and you have no protection vs. the remaining 30.


I have to agree with Kierato and Alexander Kilcoyne on this. You are immune to fire...up to 120 points of damage...than you are no longer immune taking the rest.


Ravingdork wrote:

"Protection from energy grants temporary immunity to the type of energy you specify when you cast it (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic). When the spell absorbs 12 points per caster level of energy damage (to a maximum of 120 points at 10th level), it is discharged."

If I cast Protection From Energy (fire) on myself at 10th-caster level, and I get breathed by an ancient red dragon for 150 fire damage, do I take no damage (because I am immune at the time of the attack) and then the spell is discharged? Or does the spell absorb 120 damage and I take 30?

It is basically temporary hp that only applies to a specific energy type. You take the remaining damage, but until that pool of hp is used up you are effectively immune.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Kierato wrote:
look at it this way, if it can absorb 120 points of damage, and you are hit for 150 it discharges as soon as it takes 120 and you have no protection vs. the remaining 30.

Except that there is no general rule anywhere saying you apply damage one hit point at a time (except maybe for damage reduction and a few summoner abilities--which don't count as those are specific and not general).

You're either taking damage, or you're not. I'm not saying my interpretation is necessarily true, but I see absolutely nothing to refute it.


Ravingdork wrote:
Kierato wrote:
look at it this way, if it can absorb 120 points of damage, and you are hit for 150 it discharges as soon as it takes 120 and you have no protection vs. the remaining 30.

Except that there is no general rule anywhere saying you apply damage one hit point at a time (except maybe for damage reduction and a few summoner abilities--which don't count as those are specific and not general).

You're either taking damage, or you're not. I'm not saying my interpretation is necessarily true, but I see absolutely nothing to refute it.

If you have 10 temp HP and I do 15 points of damage are you saying the other 5 points is never taken? It is no different than energy resistance really. The only difference is that energy resistance stays at a certain number, while protection from energy dwindles away. Once you bypass the barrier the opponent always takes the rest. There is not one situation in the game where barrier blocks all the HP even if it is bypassed.

PS:Barrier = damage reducing affect.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
wraithstrike wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Kierato wrote:
look at it this way, if it can absorb 120 points of damage, and you are hit for 150 it discharges as soon as it takes 120 and you have no protection vs. the remaining 30.

Except that there is no general rule anywhere saying you apply damage one hit point at a time (except maybe for damage reduction and a few summoner abilities--which don't count as those are specific and not general).

You're either taking damage, or you're not. I'm not saying my interpretation is necessarily true, but I see absolutely nothing to refute it.

If you have 10 temp HP and I do 15 points of damage are you saying the other 5 points is never taken? It is no different than energy resistance really. The only difference is that energy resistance stays at a certain number, while protection from energy dwindles away. Once you bypass the barrier the opponent always takes the rest. There is not one situation in the game where barrier blocks all the HP even if it is bypassed.

PS:Barrier = damage reducing affect.

Except the spell doesn't describe it as reduced damage. It specifically says you are immune. The spell (and thus the immunity) lasts until the spell is discharged.


Ravingdork wrote:
Kierato wrote:
look at it this way, if it can absorb 120 points of damage, and you are hit for 150 it discharges as soon as it takes 120 and you have no protection vs. the remaining 30.

Except that there is no general rule anywhere saying you apply damage one hit point at a time (except maybe for damage reduction and a few summoner abilities--which don't count as those are specific and not general).

You're either taking damage, or you're not. I'm not saying my interpretation is necessarily true, but I see absolutely nothing to refute it.

DR does not apply one HP at a time. It is just a buffer against damage, just like temp hp and other abilities. They work generally the same, even if the fluff and mechanics are slightly different. X amount of damage comes in, Y is blocked, and you take the rest.

edit:The spell even says it only absorbs so much energy. That does not mean you get a freebie for the rest. It means you get to take the rest.


Ravingdork wrote:
Kierato wrote:
look at it this way, if it can absorb 120 points of damage, and you are hit for 150 it discharges as soon as it takes 120 and you have no protection vs. the remaining 30.

Except that there is no general rule anywhere saying you apply damage one hit point at a time (except maybe for damage reduction and a few summoner abilities--which don't count as those are specific and not general).

You're either taking damage, or you're not. I'm not saying my interpretation is necessarily true, but I see absolutely nothing to refute it.

All damage in Pathfinder overflows...though DR and Energy resistance anything. I can't think of any instance where it state damage does not overflow.

If you want to run it that way go right ahead...I think it is wrong...but it is your game...and I really don't feel like argueing about it.


Ravingdork wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Kierato wrote:
look at it this way, if it can absorb 120 points of damage, and you are hit for 150 it discharges as soon as it takes 120 and you have no protection vs. the remaining 30.

Except that there is no general rule anywhere saying you apply damage one hit point at a time (except maybe for damage reduction and a few summoner abilities--which don't count as those are specific and not general).

You're either taking damage, or you're not. I'm not saying my interpretation is necessarily true, but I see absolutely nothing to refute it.

If you have 10 temp HP and I do 15 points of damage are you saying the other 5 points is never taken? It is no different than energy resistance really. The only difference is that energy resistance stays at a certain number, while protection from energy dwindles away. Once you bypass the barrier the opponent always takes the rest. There is not one situation in the game where barrier blocks all the HP even if it is bypassed.

PS:Barrier = damage reducing affect.

Except the spell doesn't describe it as reduced damage. It specifically says you are immune. The spell (and thus the immunity) lasts until the spell is discharged.

The immunity part is fluff, and the spell is discharged at 120 assuming max level.

From an in game point of view look at it like this. The dragon is breathing on you for 6 six seconds. The first 4 second are blocked, but it does not have enough for the entire onslaught so you get fire in your face.
If it was true immunity it would be the SPC spell that gives actual immunity where you take no damage.


If the spell worked like that then casters would keep recasting it, and you would have seen the tactic on some message board by now.

Caster:Man I ain't scared of no dragon. I just keep casting my energy protection, and sometimes I quicken it to give my party members protection to. I don't run out either. Look at all these scrolls.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
wraithstrike wrote:

If the spell worked like that then casters would keep recasting it, and you would have seen the tactic on some message board by now.

Caster:Man I ain't scared of no dragon. I just keep casting my energy protection, and sometimes I quicken it to give my party members protection to. I don't run out either. Look at all these scrolls.

Yeah, but it would only protect against one or two big attacks. Eventually, scrolls of it (especially quickened scrolls) would be a real money sink.

I don't see it as broken (though I'm still not convinced that my interpretation is right).


Ravingdork wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:

If the spell worked like that then casters would keep recasting it, and you would have seen the tactic on some message board by now.

Caster:Man I ain't scared of no dragon. I just keep casting my energy protection, and sometimes I quicken it to give my party members protection to. I don't run out either. Look at all these scrolls.

Yeah, but it would only protect against one or two big attacks. Eventually, scrolls of it (especially quickened scrolls) would be a real money sink.

I don't see it as broken (though I'm still not convinced that my interpretation is right).

Dragons can only breath once every 1d4 rounds so it would only need to work 2 or 3 times unless the fight was really long.

I was saying the caster uses his own quicken feat at the beginning, and the regular scrolls to recharge. I do realize I was not clear.

The rogue would most likely make his reflex save anyway so his scroll would last longer. A paladin might also make the save due to his charisma bonus.


wraithstrike wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:

If the spell worked like that then casters would keep recasting it, and you would have seen the tactic on some message board by now.

Caster:Man I ain't scared of no dragon. I just keep casting my energy protection, and sometimes I quicken it to give my party members protection to. I don't run out either. Look at all these scrolls.

Yeah, but it would only protect against one or two big attacks. Eventually, scrolls of it (especially quickened scrolls) would be a real money sink.

I don't see it as broken (though I'm still not convinced that my interpretation is right).

Dragons can only breath once every 1d4 rounds so it would only need to work 2 or 3 times unless the fight was really long.

I was saying the caster uses his own quicken feat at the beginning, and the regular scrolls to recharge. I do realize I was not clear.

The rogue would most likely make his reflex save anyway so his scroll would last longer. A paladin might also make the save due to his charisma bonus.

Why use scrolls? Pearls of Power would be cheaper (unless you are a sorcerer). Let's face it, you want a general rule? The general rule is a spell does not need an action to discharge. it discharges when the conditions are right. If the conditions are right half way through an attack, then that is when it discharges and you take the rest of the attack.


Kierato wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:

If the spell worked like that then casters would keep recasting it, and you would have seen the tactic on some message board by now.

Caster:Man I ain't scared of no dragon. I just keep casting my energy protection, and sometimes I quicken it to give my party members protection to. I don't run out either. Look at all these scrolls.

Yeah, but it would only protect against one or two big attacks. Eventually, scrolls of it (especially quickened scrolls) would be a real money sink.

I don't see it as broken (though I'm still not convinced that my interpretation is right).

Dragons can only breath once every 1d4 rounds so it would only need to work 2 or 3 times unless the fight was really long.

I was saying the caster uses his own quicken feat at the beginning, and the regular scrolls to recharge. I do realize I was not clear.

The rogue would most likely make his reflex save anyway so his scroll would last longer. A paladin might also make the save due to his charisma bonus.

Why use scrolls? Pearls of Power would be cheaper (unless you are a sorcerer). Let's face it, you want a general rule? The general rule is a spell does not need an action to discharge. it discharges when the conditions are right. If the conditions are right half way through an attack, then that is when it discharges and you take the rest of the attack.

You are preaching to the choir. RD wants to believe that immunity is not just bad fluff, and that 150 can be stopped by 1 point of resistance. I really do wish fluff/flavor was in italics or red lettering like it was for the spell compendium.


@Ravingdork: I asked it before...so I'll ask you before is there any effect in Pathfinder where the damage does not overflow? If not than why would it with this spell?


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
John Kretzer wrote:

@Ravingdork: I asked it before...so I'll ask you before is there any effect in Pathfinder where the damage does not overflow? If not than why would it with this spell?

No...I suppose not. Just wishful thinking stemming from the repeated poundings of an overbearing dragon I guess.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This spell has been around for a while and it has always worked like Kierato and AK have said. You gain temporary immunity against the chosen elemental damage - up to 12 x CL. This temporary immunity is not measured in rounds/turns/mins/hours but in damage points/hp of the chosen damage type. Once the number of damage match your CL x 12 you take the access damage as normal.

Ruyan.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
RuyanVe wrote:

This spell has been around for a while and it has always worked like Kierato and AK have said. You gain temporary immunity against the chosen elemental damage - up to 12 x CL. This temporary immunity is not measured in rounds/turns/mins/hours but in damage points/hp of the chosen damage type. Once the number of damage match your CL x 12 you take the access damage as normal.

Ruyan.

Has there been an official example anywhere at all (even in version 3.0/v3.5)? Or at least a game official/rules source describing in detail how it works?

Contributor

You are going out of your way to interpret the spell in a way that is different than the obvious intent. :/


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
You are going out of your way to interpret the spell in a way that is different than the obvious intent. :/

It's only obvious because it has a long history of use, not because of the way it is worded.

Nevertheless, thank you for settling the matter.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
You are going out of your way to interpret the spell in a way that is different than the obvious intent. :/

That's one ability that RD has mastered to a level unattainable by us mere mortal men and women.


I get 120 to allocate where I see fit. I choose to expend 1 of the 120 to give myself immunity this round. 119 rounds later, I can then be cooked.

Hm, no.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Takamonk wrote:

I get 120 to allocate where I see fit. I choose to expend 1 of the 120 to give myself immunity this round. 119 rounds later, I can then be cooked.

Hm, no.

Huh? Where did I even hint that, that was possible?

Dark Archive

Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:
Edit: Using the term immunity is really bad on the writer's part...

Pretty much, yeah. As long as 'immunity' is an actual game term with a mechanical definition, using it to describe something that only provides a limited amount of ablative protection, more like 'false life vs. fire' than actual immunity, wasn't the best choice.

It seems obvious to me what they meant, but it doesn't seem terribly useful to pile on ravingdork for reading what is written and asking if it works the way immunity is usually interpreted in the rules.

I'm an egomaniac, but jaded enough by experience to recognize that not everyone who reads something is going to interpret it exactly as I would have. :)

Shadow Lodge

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
You are going out of your way to interpret the spell in a way that is different than the obvious intent. :/

That seems to be Ravingdork's job on the forum. Except replace "the spell" with "any rule".

Seriously, dude, do you just sit down the the rulebook, read a passage, think "Well this obviously means X, but if I twist my logic enough, I can make it mean Y, kinda sorta"?


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Just doing my part to make the rules that much clearer for everyone. :D

Dark Archive

Set wrote:
Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:
Edit: Using the term immunity is really bad on the writer's part...

Pretty much, yeah. As long as 'immunity' is an actual game term with a mechanical definition, using it to describe something that only provides a limited amount of ablative protection, more like 'false life vs. fire' than actual immunity, wasn't the best choice.

It seems obvious to me what they meant, but it doesn't seem terribly useful to pile on ravingdork for reading what is written and asking if it works the way immunity is usually interpreted in the rules.

I'm an egomaniac, but jaded enough by experience to recognize that not everyone who reads something is going to interpret it exactly as I would have. :)

Hear hear! I think this was a legit concern, and Ravingdork wanted a clarification to how it works.

I'm an egomaniac too, in case nobody has noticed; but unlike you, I don't care if somebody interprets it differently, because I'm *ALWAYS* right! And anybody who disagrees with me deserves a nocturnal visit from my mischievous imp servants! ;P

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