Choose an ally attempting a recurring skill check while exploring, such as climbing, or performing a different exploration tactic that requires a skill check (like Avoiding Notice). The ally must be at least an expert in that skill and must be willing to provide assistance. While Following the Expert, you match their tactic or attempt similar skill checks. Thanks to your ally’s assistance, [b]you can add your level as a proficiency bonus to the associated skill check, even if you’re untrained. Additionally, you gain a circumstance bonus to your skill check based on your ally’s proficiency (+2 for expert, +3 for master, and +4 for legendary).
The way I interpret this is that the circumstance bonus it to your character's proficiency bonus. So basically it would replace whatever bonus you would normally get.
That means characters who are trained will do better if the person they are following is a master. But if you're a master you have a +6, so even following a legendary person wont improve your ability.
I'm not absolutely certain this is correct, but it's the only way that makes sense to me as otherwise if the circumstance bonus is just in general then two people of the same training level who are doing the same task should always follow the other for an extra bonus, which doesn't seem right.
So, isn't it a little odd that experienced character could benefit from the circumstances bonus?
Not at all. At least, not in your example. It is much easier to sneak if you you have someone ahead of you who has already given you the all clear. The person you are following has the hardest job.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I mean, its the same bonus as Aiding one another for people who are trained or better essentially, right?
More ways to encourage and represent teamwork is more better imo.
Follow the Expert prevents you from using a different exploration activity, so I'm pretty sure the extra bonus you get from it is quite intentional.
Not at all. At least, not in your example. It is much easier to sneak if you you have someone ahead of you who has already given you the all clear. The person you are following has the hardest job.
So, isn't it a little odd that experienced character could benefit from the circumstances bonus?
Actually, my example was that was meant to point out that's so much easier to sneak past something in 2 than being alone.
If you both are legendary thieves, you normally have +X to sneak past a Y DC
If any of you lead and the other follow, then you have +X+4.
This is what, imho, makes no sense at all.
...
To be even more clear.
Not only a party could just roll once by following a person ( lowering the failure chance in a extraordinary way), but the one who rolls can benefit from a higher bonus than the one who leads, even if their skills are equally.
Working as a team making something easier is extremely intuitive. I'm honestly unable to understand the opposite position.
Why shouldn't using the "team" version of the activity be better in all ways?
Stealth as a group is only a liability if more skilled individuals have to "carry" less skilled individuals. Otherwise, its a cooperative effort involving more resources applied in concert...
Follow the Expert prevents you from using a different exploration activity, so I'm pretty sure the extra bonus you get from it is quite intentional.
I'm not sure I agree with that logic.
Without some special ability (and the rogue has one for stealth) you can't normally ever perform more than one exploration activity, so if you were going to use stealth because the whole party was trying to use stealth then there's no reason for everyone not to follow the leader because you'll get a free bonus (except the leader).
And what's weird about that to me, if if you have two people with the same master level of training the one who's following will get a bonus and be better at it than the person who is leading...which just seems off to me.
Like I said, I'm not confidant that they should or shouldn't, but to me it seems wrong.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Not at all. At least, not in your example. It is much easier to sneak if you you have someone ahead of you who has already given you the all clear. The person you are following has the hardest job.
So, isn't it a little odd that experienced character could benefit from the circumstances bonus?
Actually, my example was that was meant to point out that's so much easier to sneak past something in 2 than being alone.
If you both are legendary thieves, you normally have +X to sneak past a Y DC
If any of you lead and the other follow, then you have +X+4.
This is what, imho, makes no sense at all.
...
To be even more clear.
Not only a party could just roll once by following a person ( lowering the failure chance in a extraordinary way), but the one who rolls can benefit from a higher bonus than the one who leads, even if their skills are equally.
Working as a team making something easier is extremely intuitive. I'm honestly unable to understand the opposite position.
Why shouldn't using the "team" version of the activity be better in all ways?
Cause following the expert shouldn't make you the master.
It might bring your skills acceptable, indeed, but not nearly close to the master level.
And assuming your level been the same as the one who lead, you wouldn't reach some supernatural level by cooperaring, nor you'd get tips about stuff you already know.
You're over invested in the name of the ability being "follow the expert". Thats its primary use for most parties, but really its just the "teamwork" exploration activity.
You may note that the bonuses it provides scale the same as critical successes on an aid action. The end results for two legendary characters are exactly the same as one character making a skill check, and the other assisting.
That is the scenario Following the Expert represents when people have the same proficiency.
I am over investing nothing krispy.
If the party wants to rely on stealth, so it simply level it.If improving 1 out of 3 skills is pushing.
I accept that it would not be necessarily to have a party meant for stealth and intelligence works, but it's pretty common.
On the other hand, you are trying not to look at the issue, which is a legendary target benefit from a bonus, which is literally huge, by simply doing nothing.
Doing nothing? It costs their exploration activity.
Its literally the same cost and bonus as Aiding in any other circumstance.
Its just teamwork under a name that calls out its application for less skilled party members.
I am over investing nothing krispy.
If the party wants to rely on stealth, so it simply level it.If improving 1 out of 3 skills is pushing.
I accept that it would not be necessarily to have a party meant for stealth and intelligence works, but it's pretty common.
On the other hand, you are trying not to look at the issue, which is a legendary target benefit from a bonus, which is literally huge, by simply doing nothing.
Doing nothing? It costs their exploration activity.
Its literally the same cost and bonus as Aiding in any other circumstance.
Its just teamwork under a name that calls out its application for less skilled party members.
Ehm, you will be sending ahead a stealth one just to spot.
So no, it wouldn't cost any exploration activity.
When the rogue ( or catfolk, or even hunter or investigator I guess) comes back, then the stealth train will start.
Unless time issues, I doubt any group will proceed randomly without knowing what's ahead.
That's not really how Exploration Mode is intended to work, as written.
But regardless, you can't claim that Follow the Expert has no cost when it precludes you from using other exploration activities.
Its absolutely and explicitly what you use when working as a team during exploration. If you're doing something that involves a skill check for multiple characters, its fully working as intended that everyone should be following one leader for a bonus.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I am not saying it is something given for free.
I am saying that in my opinion it's silly to let legendary players to benefit a +4 circumstance bonus from following another legendary guy.
This was meant to be the topic.
So you don't think Legendary skill users should be able to use Aid to provide a +4 circumstance bonus for one third of their actions and a reaction then, either?
Because that's a thing that can happen outside of exploration mode on a d20 roll of 2, as well.
Its literally the same Bonus as Aid, but usable in Exploration mode as opposed to Encounter mode.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I am not saying it is something given for free.
I am saying that in my opinion it's silly to let legendary players to benefit a +4 circumstance bonus from following another legendary guy.
This was meant to be the topic.
So you don't think Legendary skill users should be able to use Aid to provide a +4 circumstance bonus for one third of their actions and a reaction then, either?
Because that's a thing that can happen outside of exploration mode on a d20 roll of 2, as well.
Its literally the same Bonus as Aid, but usable in Exploration mode as opposed to Encounter mode.
You have to explain how you want to help.
That's the basic rule ( reason why sometimes you will be forbidden from using the aid action ).Even on a non combat scenario, how would you give somebody, with your reaction, the possibility to make less noise?
Not to say that there is no check involved.
So in my opinion they are just separate things ( the former meant for combat activities, the latter for non combat ones).
You should watch realistic depictions of special forces infiltration if you want to understand highly trained group stealth.
Stealth teamwork involves being able to watch multiple approaches at once, providing all clears to teammates, provide distractions to draw potential observation away from allies, etc. It creates opportunities that don't exist for single infiltrators.
Group stealth is extremely impressive, and absolutely realistic.
Anyway, it has nothing to do with following "the expert".
Its just a name.
It is the Exploration Activity for teamwork and assistance.
Nothing in the description implies that the ally you choose to gain a benefit has to be better than you, only that they be willing to provide aid and at least an Expert.
In fact, someone who is Legendary in a skill could use the Follow the Expert activity targeting someone who is only an Expert. Not sure why they would, but it's totally legal.
Not at all. At least, not in your example. It is much easier to sneak if you you have someone ahead of you who has already given you the all clear. The person you are following has the hardest job.
So, isn't it a little odd that experienced character could benefit from the circumstances bonus?
Actually, my example was that was meant to point out that's so much easier to sneak past something in 2 than being alone.
If you both are legendary thieves, you normally have +X to sneak past a Y DC
If any of you lead and the other follow, then you have +X+4.
This is what, imho, makes no sense at all.
...
To be even more clear.
Not only a party could just roll once by following a person ( lowering the failure chance in a extraordinary way), but the one who rolls might benefit from a higher bonus than the one who leads, even if their skills are equally.
That isn't how Quiet Allies works. The person with the lowest modifier rolls. If a the person Following gets a bonus that puts them above the expert, has to roll. It is the same roll as going alone. Only advantage is you have back up if you mess up.