Any XP point based version

[Darksyde]

Hey.

I was just wondering if there were any XP advancement rules floating out there for Pathfinder as apposed to the standard Level based advancement.

Thanks for any info.

[Liongold]

WHA??

I know i can be dense sometimes but, i dont understand the question.

[Evil Lincoln]

I think he means a system where you raise individual ratings and buy powers with XP rather than getting them all at once with levels.

No, I haven't seen such a system, although I have been wondering how long before someone devises a good one. Especially with archetypes in the equation now, I think it all screams for an exchange rate.

The trouble is that it really plays havoc with many assumptions of the system if you abandon levels. Any such system would have to retain levels to interact with spellcasting at the least.

Darksyde, was there any example of an XP-purchase system in 3e that you know of?

[Liongold]

Evil Lincoln wrote:

I think he means a system where you raise individual ratings and buy powers with XP rather than getting them all at once with levels.

No, I haven't seen such a system, although I have been wondering how long before someone devises a good one. Especially with archetypes in the equation now, I think it all screams for an exchange rate.

The trouble is that it really plays havoc with many assumptions of the system if you abandon levels. Any such system would have to retain levels to interact with spellcasting at the least.

Darksyde, was there any example of an XP-purchase system in 3e that you know of?

ahh... like GURPS?

[Darksyde]

Evil Lincoln wrote:

Darksyde, was there any example of an XP-purchase system in 3e that you know of?

It is my understanding that Mutants and Masterminds is a point based system but I've never played (not much for supers game lately). Other than that I do not know.

Liongold wrote:

ahh... like GURPS?

I believe so, not dealt with GURPS in quite a while. All White Wolf products are point based.

[Mok]

There is a system for 3.5 called "Buy the Numbers" that is exactly what you are looking for. I don't know if it got upgraded to Pathfinder but it wouldn't be too hard to convert on your own, at least if you follow their approach.

[NotMousse]

I suppose the easiest approach would be to pull apart the respective 'pieces' of the classes, and purchase them as a fraction of a level's worth of XP.

Given that Pathfinder has 3 XP tracks I'm thinking that you may want to give out 'advancements' as a fraction of XP to next level rather than as static numbers.

I'm not sure I'd want to go entirely classless though. Instead perhaps an advancement system where you gained portions of your next level at a more granular pace, skill ranks, class abilities, feats, and HP as the capstone of a level.

[TriOmegaZero]

Kirth Gersen wrote up a classless PDF that allows you to spend XP to buy class abilities. I believe it was written for Pathfinder. If you click on my user name, you will see a link to Kirth's Houserules thread and our Gamers In Houston thread. You can ask him to send you the file from either location. I would upload it to my fileshare, but I don't have access at the moment.

[Sean K Reynolds]

You could try my Alternative Level Advancement--The Step System. It's a different way of advancing characters that doesn't involve XP. This originally was some unpublished house rules I wrote, which I adapted to publish in Monte Cook's World of Darkness, which I've fiddled with slightly to revert back to standard terminology for compatibility with non-MCWOD d20-based games.

[mdt]

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

You could try my Alternative Level Advancement--The Step System. It's a different way of advancing characters that doesn't involve XP. This originally was some unpublished house rules I wrote, which I adapted to publish in Monte Cook's World of Darkness, which I've fiddled with slightly to revert back to standard terminology for compatibility with non-MCWOD d20-based games.

I kind of like that system. :) I don't think I want to do away with XP, but I think perhaps I'll modify it for use in my own games. At 1.25, pick A, B, C or D. At 1.5 pick again, again at 1.75, and at 2 you have them all.

[Old Guy]

If memory serves, that sounds like the Dragonquest system.

[TriOmegaZero]

Kirth Gersen's Classless PDF.

Got access to my fileshare and uploaded it. Hopefully it worked right.

[Kierato]

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

You could try my Alternative Level Advancement--The Step System. It's a different way of advancing characters that doesn't involve XP. This originally was some unpublished house rules I wrote, which I adapted to publish in Monte Cook's World of Darkness, which I've fiddled with slightly to revert back to standard terminology for compatibility with non-MCWOD d20-based games.

I was creating a 2d10 system (not d%, 2d10 added together) back when pathfinder was still alpha. I've been converting the info to pathfinder and putting it up. The leveling system was similar to this.

I've been trying to create a point buy pathfinder for a while now. One way I've been trying to do it was allow you to create a custom class at first level and play it through.

[TriOmegaZero]

I think the best compromise is creating a personal class for your character. Talking out what you want your character to do with your DM, and deciding what class features accomplish that, is the best way to balance your character for the campaign.

[Mok]

TriOmegaZero wrote:

I think the best compromise is creating a personal class for your character. Talking out what you want your character to do with your DM, and deciding what class features accomplish that, is the best way to balance your character for the campaign.

I agree that this is probably the best way to go. The only real issue is that someone needs to do an exhaustive cost analysis of every class feature and ability, so that you can build the class up in a way that is balanced. I've seen way too many GMs who are either reflexively conservative (due to nightmarish min-max players) or have no real eye for balance and let the inmates out of the asylum in terms of what is possible.

But then you also run into the inherent problem of point buy systems, which can be gamed to the point where they throw off the balance in it's own way.

I'd love to see a computer system that is set up to do point buy which easily allows for dynamic point buy values. That is, each game element's cost changes depending on what else is being combined with it. It would have formulas that would be taking into account various core game metrics, like to hit values, damage values, movement values, etc. The more you try and push any of these core metrics past the system's assumed power curve the more additional elements are going to cost, but if they were taken in isolation with other elements that did not stack then any of these game elements would be a lot cheaper.

I like Sean's step system, I've seen something like that before. Basically you get something every session, which is what I want to see from the game. I want to level my character after ever session, but this would solve that problem. It unfortunately doesn't address being able to mix and match features. I suppose you could bring back a bit of old style multiclassing. You could just cap it at two classes. You could take steps in each class and you simply can't level until all of those two classes steps are done.

[TriOmegaZero]

Mok wrote:

The only real issue is that someone needs to do an exhaustive cost analysis of every class feature and ability, so that you can build the class up in a way that is balanced.

Nah, not really.

Player: Can Sparhawk get this when the party levels next?

DM: Nah, not yet, he's already got this and that. Level after that.

Player: Okay, how's this then?

DM: Sounds good, we'll see how it turns out in play.

You only need to balance what the player wants. You don't have to assign a value to everything.

[joela]

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

You could try my Alternative Level Advancement--The Step System. It's a different way of advancing characters that doesn't involve XP. This originally was some unpublished house rules I wrote, which I adapted to publish in Monte Cook's World of Darkness, which I've fiddled with slightly to revert back to standard terminology for compatibility with non-MCWOD d20-based games.

Heart this system.