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I am having a really difficult time to to set ambushes with melee monsters. After reading the rules of the surprise round it makes it impossible to ambush with melee because everybody only have a standard action in the first round (the surprise one). You need a full action to charge.
I know its probably more realistic but it feels really silly that the people who actualy set the ambush cant full atack on thr first combat round.
I think it hurt the most with magical beasts.
If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can't use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn.
You can charge during a surprise round. A good ambush relies on proper setup and planning to get the most out of the initial charge and to find an advantageous position for the regular rounds.
Specifically through the Partial Charge action; although now I look it doesn't appear to be in the PRD...
It is a little hidden, since it is not called a 'Partial Charge' anymore:
PRD -> Combat -> Special Attacks -> Charge:
"If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can't use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn."
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I am having a really difficult time to to set ambushes with melee monsters. After reading the rules of the surprise round it makes it impossible to ambush with melee because everybody only have a standard action in the first round (the surprise one). You need a full action to charge.
A creature can charge as a standard action if it is limited to only a standard action in the round. It is limited to a single move distance for a charge like this. I can charge like this in a surprise round.
"If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can't use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn."
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I am having a really difficult time to to set ambushes with melee monsters. After reading the rules of the surprise round it makes it impossible to ambush with melee because everybody only have a standard action in the first round (the surprise one). You need a full action to charge.A creature can charge as a standard action if it is limited to only a standard action in the round. It is limited to a single move distance for a charge like this. I can charge like this in a surprise round.
"If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can't use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn."
It hasn't been called a partial charge since 3.0; the partial action wasn't part of 3.5.
Aside from the charge action make sure you have a good initiative, if you win initiative you can follow up the partial charge with a full attack action while your opponent is still flat footed.
Make sure you use stealth properly and do not forget to take into account the modifiers, mainly the bonus for distance is often forgotten, so that a fast moving / fairly intelligent creature actually has an advantage to surprise foes.
They could start by chugging bombs/spears/... into combat?
[/bad idea]
Apart from the surprise round, i tend to double the initiative of the surprisers... Evil? Maybe.. But I think it makes sense! :)
I don't think it is justified at all, the benefit of the surprise is that they get that extra standard action and might have a full round action while their enemy is flat footed and the element of preparation.
If you got a proper tactician, justified by feats or class abilities for example, that gives a bonus on inititiative it is fine, otherwise it is a bit of an overkill. Even simple orcs can really hurt a higher CR opponent badly in a surprise round followed by a bad initiative roll.
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Houserule to fix the Surprise Round:
There is no 'standard action only' round at the start of combat. Any character caught unaware at the start of combat goes last in the first round. Use their regular initiative in all following rounds.
A bit brutal in case of "OH HAI!" invisible sneak-attack guys...
Houserule to fix the Surprise Round:
There is no 'standard action only' round at the start of combat. Any character caught unaware at the start of combat goes last in the first round. Use their regular initiative in all following rounds.
This would hurt the Teamwork Feat Lookout, which only Inquisitors would really care about.
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This would hurt the Teamwork Feat Lookout, which only Inquisitors would really care about.
It would change a lot of interactions. Obviously, that feat would let you act at normally if caught surprised, at a price. I don't think it really matters. The feat is pretty lackluster anyway.
A bit brutal in case of "OH HAI!" invisible sneak-attack guys...
A case of rules working as intended. ;) Remember, you're flatfooted until your first turn, so the sneak-attack guys just have to get the drop on you. no invisibility required. If you think rogues are overpowered, this obviously isn't for you.
Of course, you might be just as worried about that pouncing barbarian swinging at your flatfooted AC. :P
I don't think it really matters. The feat is pretty lackluster anyway.
My Inquisitor Zen Archer Monk disagrees! He likes being able to Flurry Arrows against Flat-Footed ambushers.
EDIT: Though I do suppose the feat would make it unnecessary.
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What a coincidense! My campaign also have a zen archer monk inquisidor and he is the reason i am trying do develop better ambushes.
If the melee dont get an atack out on the surprise round, chances are they will not atack at all because they will be dead on the second round with twenty arrows stuck into their bodys.
It was the last time i allowed that archetype into one of my campaigns, the APs are not designed to it.
Thanks for al the anwers guys. I didnt know about the parcial charge, that will come in handy.