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There is an oracle PC in one of my games, who has taken the “haunted” curse:
Haunted: Malevolent spirits follow you wherever you go, causing minor mishaps and strange occurrences (such as unexpected breezes, small objects moving on their own, and faint noises). Retrieving any stored item from your gear requires a standard action, unless it would normally take longer. Any item you drop lands 10 feet away from you in a random direction.
Normally, I’m one of those GMs that has no problem “filling in” details and expanding phrases such as “minor mishaps and strange occurrences” to take their appropriate place on the stage. However, with this campaign, there is a lot going on that I’m keeping track of and trying to stay on top of. PCs, NPCs, attitudes, machinations, etc. etc. etc. etc.
With all of that, this “haunted” curse has become not much of a curse at all except when the oracle retrieves something or drops something in combat (which there isn’t much of). That’s where I turn to you all for advice. Now, I don’t want this to monopolize the campaign, but I would like this PC to feel “haunted.”
Any suggestions?
Sounds like a good opportunity for Comic Relief...
If you don't feel like going down that road, maybe you could tie the haunting in with the plot more? Replace an exposition-based NPC with creepy signs appearing in the Oracle's oatmeal or the blood of slain enemies. Maybe when he(she?) drops items to the curse, they always point the same direction- maybe a sense motive/ perception/ knowledge check to notice?
When I had a character that was a Haunted Oracle in my campaign I took him to the side and explained how this was going to work:
Whenever I have something "bad" that is going to happen to a random PC I roll a dice to figure out which PC it is. Normally I work out the exact dice I need to get the exact number of players I have.
However with him being haunted I just use a dice of the next size up from the number of players I have in the party and he's all the extra numbers.
So if I have 5 people in the party, instead of rolling a d10 or a d6 (rerolling 6's) I roll a d8 and he's numbers 5~8.
If he went to find something it wasn't where he thought it would be, and generally he had a -2 circumstance penalty on all checks to find something he knew should be there (like looking for a specific type of alcohol in a bar).
Things like Gremlins, ghosts, fey, or outsiders generally could "tell" he was haunted too.
If he rolled a 1 on a check I didn't cause it to auto-fail if it normally wouldn't, but the spirits that haunted him would tease him about it for a while giving a -2 on his checks for 1d6 minutes afterwards (but typically not attack rolls, or save throws, or other things that could cause him to die -- the spirits *liked* picking on him and didn't want him dead yet).
Basically put if it made the character miserable or look like a schmuck then it happened to him.
Good post. I thought it over and realized you were right and I was wrong. I was thinking about this from the player's perspective. An honest player will impose restrictions like blind, deaf, or tongues on himself, but the DM has to be prepared to step in and impose them if the player does not. The curse needs to cause the player problems because each curse has offsetting benefits that the player should not get for free.
The case of haunted is trickier than some of the others. The player could play twitchy, as I described, but, after thinking it over, I agree that the DM should apply some problems for the player, and the methods you suggested seem fairly reasonable. I would try to stay away from save or die type actions, but wouldn't have a problem with that character getting attacked more often, save or falling down stairs, and so forth.
Having the haunted character attacked on a random 5-8 vs the rest of the party on a 1-4 means the haunted character gets half of the random attacks. That might make it hard to keep the character alive. I'm not sure that's unfair, but it's enough to make me think long and hard before taking the haunted curse.
FWIW
The curse is "haunted" not "accursed". Weird stuff happens in his immediate vicinity, which can be a lot of fun to roleplay and could come from any number of reasons, from ghosts to mischievous fey. The character shouldn't be a magnet for bad happenings that cause damage to him or his property beyond what is described in the APG. Embarrassment, sure. Social difficulty, cool. Harassment, absolutely. Attacks? No. The "tongues" curse isn't that terrible either (unless you wanted to multi-class bard), and for small characters "lame" can be totally overcome with a single feat. Don't try to balance "haunted" with the completely broken "deaf", the curses aren't all on the same level in terms of impact.
First of all let me say the Haunted curse sounds the most fun to play. Running around "talking to myself" because literally no one can perceive the beings whO ic an see who are always flying/running/walking around talking to me and pestering me, is just.. fun.
On the topic at hand though:
Each curse has benefit commensurate with the hindrance. Haunting is rather light on boon and with that comes a rather light penalty. I'd be wary making the hindrance more substantial without a commensurate boost to the gain.
Adding to the curse half without adding to the benefit part, just.. isn't right.
-S
you do realize it takes a standard action to pull out spell components right? that's a pretty serious hindrance.
you do realize it takes a standard action to pull out spell components right? that's a pretty serious hindrance.
The curse is "haunted" not "accursed"...
Haunted: Malevolent spirits follow you wherever you go, causing minor mishaps and strange occurrences (such as unexpected breezes, small objects moving on their own, and faint noises). Retrieving any stored item from your gear requires a standard action, unless it would normally take longer. Any item you drop lands 10 feet away from you in a random direction. Add mage hand and ghost sound to your list of spells known. At 5th level, add levitate and minor image to your list of spells known. At 10th level, add telekinesis to your list of spells known. At 15th level, add reverse gravity to your list of spells known.
As far as I'm concerned if everyone is getting hit or something is going to happen to someone at random in the party then having the oracle being more likely (but not guaranteed) to be the target is fair -- after all it's going to happen anyway something (aka the malevolent spirit) makes it more likely to hit the oracle.
I wouldn't use this to put the oracle into a save or die position -- but I would use it for most minor inconveniences or when it's something that would hit the party as a whole some how anyways.
I'm not talking about, "there's an ambush so every single enemy is going to target the oracle first" but "there is an ambush and each enemy is shooting each member of the party -- I have 2 more enemies than party members so someone is getting shot twice -- since this is fairly at random and the oracle has some bad juju going on he's got a higher chance of being one of the people getting shot twice."
I feel getting 6 extra spells known that are normally not even available to you is a big bonus.
The curse is "haunted" not "accursed"...Haunted: Malevolent spirits follow you wherever you go, causing minor mishaps and strange occurrences (such as unexpected breezes, small objects moving on their own, and faint noises). Retrieving any stored item from your gear requires a standard action, unless it would normally take longer. Any item you drop lands 10 feet away from you in a random direction. Add mage hand and ghost sound to your list of spells known. At 5th level, add levitate and minor image to your list of spells known. At 10th level, add telekinesis to your list of spells known. At 15th level, add reverse gravity to your list of spells known.As far as I'm concerned if everyone is getting hit or something is going to happen to someone at random in the party then having the oracle being more likely (but not guaranteed) to be the target is fair -- after all it's going to happen anyway something (aka the malevolent spirit) makes it more likely to hit the oracle.
Yeah, that's totally on par with a mysterious breeze or your drinking cup moving on its own.
you do realize it takes a standard action to pull out spell components right? that's a pretty serious hindrance.Incorrect
oh wow it is way less interfering than I though.
Yeah, that's totally on par with a mysterious breeze or your drinking cup moving on its own.
Look don't want my mavolent spirits messing with you don't play a haunted oracle in my games.
As far as I'm concerned having a 3 in 8 chance instead of a 1 in 4 chance of being the one to take a single extra hit in a surprise round isn't a huge deal. Also I'm not comparing it to a mysterious breeze -- I'm comparing it to the standard to retrieve items, which can be easily negated with the handy haversack.
All in all you have a slightly higher chance to be the random target... if it's that huge of a deal then take a different curse.
I was actually under the impression the curse would over ridevany speed benefits from a hversack. ie that it would takeva standard action.
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I was actually under the impression the curse would over ridevany speed benefits from a hversack. ie that it would takeva standard action.
I see the sack as working over the curse since the sack specifically gives you the item you want. You think it the sack hands you that item.
You aren't simply "retrieving" something -- you are having it placed in your hand -- it literally *right there* waiting for you.
Yeah, that's totally on par with a mysterious breeze or your drinking cup moving on its own.Look don't want my mavolent spirits messing with you don't play a haunted oracle in my games.
As far as I'm concerned having a 3 in 8 chance instead of a 1 in 4 chance of being the one to take a single extra hit in a surprise round isn't a huge deal. Also I'm not comparing it to a mysterious breeze -- I'm comparing it to the standard to retrieve items, which can be easily negated with the handy haversack.
All in all you have a slightly higher chance to be the random target... if it's that huge of a deal then take a different curse.
But that results in the curse affecting other people, not just the oracle, which simply can't be what's intended. Arrows aren't flying in some random undirected fashion when a party is ambushed, archers are choosing targets based on some criteria, or just whoever is closest, whatever. In any event, the archers pick, not random dice. For the oracle to be targeted more often, the malevolent spirit haunting him would have to employ a mind-affecting magic on the archers, at bowshot ranges, with no save. Really? Even if a melee is involved, the combatants choose their targets, not fate, unless their minds are tampered with. The curse simply isn't that powerful.
I was actually under the impression the curse would over ridevany speed benefits from a hversack. ie that it would takeva standard action.I see the sack as working over the curse since the sack specifically gives you the item you want. You think it the sack hands you that item.
You aren't simply "retrieving" something -- you are having it placed in your hand -- it literally *right there* waiting for you.
What, really? You are going to have an Oracle take serious, possibly deadly effects from the Haunted curse but it doesn't override a Haversack?
But that results in the curse affecting other people, not just the oracle, which simply can't be what's intended. Arrows aren't flying in some random undirected fashion when a party is ambushed, archers are choosing targets based on some criteria, or just whoever is closest, whatever. In any event, the archers pick, not random dice. For the oracle to be targeted more often, the malevolent spirit haunting him would have to employ a mind-affecting magic on the archers, at bowshot ranges, with no save. Really? Even if a melee is involved, the combatants choose their targets, not fate, unless their minds are tampered with. The curse simply isn't that powerful.
Yes and no -- The curse is powerful enough that nothing short of a deity can actually fully remove it. That is powerful -- and it doesn't require it to directly affect anyone else.
The spirit simply makes the oracle look like a better target -- have you ever met one of those people that just seem to have the word, "VICTIM" written all over them?
And it's not a case of the archer wanting to shoot someone else and being forced to shoot the oracle -- it's a case of the archer looking for a target and happening to see the oracle as one first. IF the archers were specifically aiming for one party member for some reason (say he's the next in line for the throne and his brother has specifically told the archers to kill him) then they'll target the other party member first of course.
But in a "random" ambush where they are each shooting a party member and there are two extra archers and they need a target there would be (in my games) a higher chance that the target they 'randomly pick' will be the oracle.
Please note I'm not saying the oracle is automatically picked -- there is still a 5 in 8 chance it won't be the oracle shot at, I'm not saying that the oracle will be automatically hit either -- if the shot misses it misses, and if it hits, but gets thrown off by an entropic shield or what not then that's that too.
It's simply in a random situation where there isn't a better reason to shoot one party member over another there is an increased chance that the random shot will be at the oracle.
Apparently in Abraham's games, the "Haunted" curse isn't so much malevolent spirits messing with you as it is Fate forcing you over a barrel.
What, really? You are going to have an Oracle take serious, possibly deadly effects from the Haunted curse but it doesn't override a Haversack?I was actually under the impression the curse would over ridevany speed benefits from a hversack. ie that it would takeva standard action.I see the sack as working over the curse since the sack specifically gives you the item you want. You think it the sack hands you that item.
You aren't simply "retrieving" something -- you are having it placed in your hand -- it literally *right there* waiting for you.
Look I'm not saying that if it was a disintegrate spell trap that hit the party I would cause the oracle to be hit regardless. In fact in a situation where the attack/whatever is likely to cause actual death of a party member I would have even odds for everyone. The spirits don't want the oracle dead -- just to suffer.
Like I said if it was a random ambush by some mook/bandit types and they had a random shot to take that's at say +5 to hit and does 1d6+2 damage at level 10 then the oracle is (again) slightly more likely to be the random target.
I don't feel that is as huge of an issue as you make it out to be.
Remember the oracle still has a 5 in 8 chance of not being the target, and it is no guarantee that it will automatically hit the oracle.
And I'm not saying that once in the heat of combat the foes will (or won't) focus on the oracle -- they'll do whatever makes sense for them at that time.
But at a random time when something could randomly hit a party member and isn't likely to result in death and dismemberment -- yeah the oracle has a higher likelihood of being the random target.
That is all too -- just a higher likelihood of being a random target -- when there was already a likelihood of being a random target in the first place.
The handy haversack specifies exactly how it works -- as such the benefits from it are rather clear in this case. Now this wouldn't help the oracle with a belt pouch, or a normal bag of holding, or getting a weapon out, or anything else they might be retrieving from -- but from the bag of holding specifically yes, it manages to put the item in the reaching hand just like it says it does.
It is more akin to someone handing you something than you retrieving it. I'm not going to make the oracle spend more time grabbing something someone is handing her either. Now if the oracle is getting it out of someone else's bag (that isn't a handy haversack) then the oracle still has an issue.
The curse needs to cause the player problems because each curse has offsetting benefits that the player should not get for free.
This line of thinking makes no sense to me. No other class in the game has to be penalized for their "free" class abilities. Why should the oracle?
I remember a great many posters bemoaning the existence of the curses' mechanical game effects (rather than flavor effects) during the oracle playtests, so I know I'm not alone in this.
God forbid someone ever play a multiclass oracle.
The curse needs to cause the player problems because each curse has offsetting benefits that the player should not get for free.This line of thinking makes no sense to me. No other class in the game has to be penalized for their "free" class abilities. Why should the oracle?
I remember a great many posters bemoaning the existence of the curses' mechanical game effects (rather than flavor effects) during the oracle playtests, so I know I'm not alone in this.
God forbid someone ever play a multiclass oracle.
Multiclass means you just get your benefits at 1/2 the speed of normal.
Also for those that didn't like my increase in probability please remember that as a GM the very fact I allow it to be random is a nicety I don't have to observe -- I could simply state someone is getting attacked every time. The rolling to see who the target will be is my choice on how to do it fairly, and as such a slight increase in probability is really not a huge deal compared to simply stating "It will always be you."
The Oracle's player should take care that his curse comes into play. But if he or she doesn't there's some small anyoing things you can do.
The faint noises, the breeze, small objects moving... this all practically screams to come up when the oracle wants to be quiet and stealthy or do something delicate. Just some examples where this could come up:
The door squeaks when openened even though it is new.
A few small pebbles come loose as you climb on the walls to bypass a guard.
A wind breeze makes a shrub you are hiding in rustling and makes a watchdog look in your direction.
In a social encounter with some nobles a faint drawn out fart could be heard.
When the orcale performs something a button could come loose and make their pants fall.
A oracle that can play an instrument finds it out of tune whenever she wants to play it.
The straps of a disguise come loose and make it easier to see through it.
On a gambling table the haunt could move the bets around (if there is soemthing akin to roulette for example).
It all depends on what the oracles specialities/focus are. But you can find something fun to do with every kind of oracle. It can be a -2 penalty to pretty much any skill check.
And whenever it is funny and not dangerous you basically must embarrass the oracle ;3
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Since I've been working on an Aberrant Sorcerer / Haunted Oracle, I'll share what I've done.
My PC started taking a handprint as his personal symbol, and he was already going to be an Aberrant Sorcerer. So, when he became a haunted oracle, I decided the problem wasn't with malevolant spirits. The problem was with his hands.
He gets Mage Hand, and he'll soon have Long Limbs. So, I've decided that he's starting to manifest other hands. Most of the time, they remain thankfully hidden under his clothes, and he has no real control over them. But when he starts moving things around, his hands start doing more, showing up where they shouldn't, that sort of thing. He has trouble with his things because other parts of him are constantly rearranging things. Once he starts getting Unusual Anatomy, more of his body will simply... be hands.
There is an oracle PC in one of my games, who has taken the “haunted” curse:
Haunted: Malevolent spirits follow you wherever you go, causing minor mishaps and strange occurrences (such as unexpected breezes, small objects moving on their own, and faint noises). Retrieving any stored item from your gear requires a standard action, unless it would normally take longer. Any item you drop lands 10 feet away from you in a random direction.Normally, I’m one of those GMs that has no problem “filling in” details and expanding phrases such as “minor mishaps and strange occurrences” to take their appropriate place on the stage. However, with this campaign, there is a lot going on that I’m keeping track of and trying to stay on top of. PCs, NPCs, attitudes, machinations, etc. etc. etc. etc.
With all of that, this “haunted” curse has become not much of a curse at all except when the oracle retrieves something or drops something in combat (which there isn’t much of). That’s where I turn to you all for advice. Now, I don’t want this to monopolize the campaign, but I would like this PC to feel “haunted.”
Any suggestions?
could have it start a bar fight *bottle flies off shelf and pegs some thug in the head*
also could randomly have it mess with rest full sleep due to nightmares ect
or maybe the ghost unties someones top there are many ways to mess with the oracle and party maybe a to small flame gets put out at random.
dont forget visions
My haunted Oracle died but when he was in play we had a system where the ghose would take opportunities to prank him and such, but sometimes the ghost was helpful (like when the party has no idea what to do next, I'd be asked by the DM to roll a heeby-jeeby check and then the ghost would encourage me to go one way or the other).
One time we were fighting a ghost, and due to my haunted nature I got benefits and insights against it, not game breaking but adding flavour. At one point, my ghost threw a box at the other ghost.
That said, walking up the stairs, climbing ladders and standing near ledges, gutters, or pools was very dangerous for me.
As a DM I have had a hard time keeping up with the Oracle and his haunted condition. Mostly because when the haunting occurred, no one knew why it was occurring and we spent too much table time in game with them trying to figure it out.
He had footprints appearing in the snow next to and slightly behind the Oracle while they walked across the frozen tundra. The party spent a lot of time trying to attack or discover the invisible creature that was stalking them.
I had books in a library falling off of shelves and sliding across the floor. Again, looking for hidden creatures and monsters and a lot of searching through books to find the significance of the moving books.
Fluttering torches lead to the party looking for the hidden doors or openings that they hadn't detected in their initial search.
Etc, etc, etc. Wastes a lot of time for not getting anything done.
could have it start a bar fight *bottle flies off shelf and pegs some thug in the head*
also could randomly have it mess with rest full sleep due to nightmares ect
or maybe the ghost unties someones top there are many ways to mess with the oracle and party maybe a to small flame gets put out at random.
dont forget visions
You could give no new mechanical effects, but reflavor his failures so that they are far more embarrassing for the player with the group. Horribly failing a diplomacy check with a king might be played out as an above mentioned....wardrobe malfunction. A failed stealth check is because the spirit started tipping over large vases. Get creative enough, and the penalty for the player will come from the rest of the group mocking his spectacular disasters, even if it would have happened any way due to the numbers.
I played a Haunted Oracle for a while (until an unanticipated planar rift created a party schism, but that is another story).
the best way that I played it was a synergy of my Perception Skill and my dice. with no ranks in Perception (on purpose) and an uncanny ability to tank Perception rolls it went something like this:
other character, makes decent perception roll, "Did you see that?"
me, "what exactly do you mean by 'that', I see and hear things all day long, if I were to ask you - Did you see that? every time I saw something I would get left in the woods by a party that didn't get any sleep."
It is a curse without a ton of mechanical downside. fair enough. Ask the player to work on it.
I also made sure to keep my possessions to a minimum - just couldn't trust those spirits.
I waived the spirits thing entirely with my Oracle of Lore. I'm simply most distracted in real life, and made her the same ("Where... where... WHERE DID I PUT THAT WAND OF HEALING?! Wait just a moment... It WAS here just this morning... or yesterday..."). Really: I once couldn't find my car keys for a month. And then they were in my purse.