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My take on it is that alarm doesn't appear on the trap page nor does the spell say its a trap, so it's not a trap. Further there are no immediate detrimental effects when you trip off an alarm(you don't get summoned creatures after you, blasted by something etc). Sure it may be a pedantic reading of the whole thing but what were you expecting about a possibly (anally) lawful inevitable cat?
*gets dressed*
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Get yourself a two-handed sword or mace.
Yesterday I told someone off for fishing in a no fishing area. My parents would probably have told me to mind my own business, but someone should stand up for the fishes!
I figure if he wanted to punch me or something, there are a whole bunch of joggers running by so he probably wouldn't get anywhere.
And since he played dumb, I called NParks with my cell phone to sic a Park Ranger on him. I hope they caught him in the act.
If it did boil down to a fight I'd probably use punches, and possibly elbows and kicks and basically whatever move I was doing in body combat workout.
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3. How did Harry Potter, in all its cliche, get an entire series of high budget movies, and this only got one weak Sci-Fi show? No accounting for taste. (Potter isn't bad, but it is cliche)
Because Harry Potter was a bestselling series and Dresden Files are just good selling series?
3. How did Harry Potter, in all its cliche, get an entire series of high budget movies, and this only got one weak Sci-Fi show? No accounting for taste. (Potter isn't bad, but it is cliche)Because Harry Potter was a bestselling series and Dresden Files are just good selling series?
Yes, but why is that? Dresden is just flat-out better. Yeah, I get it, opinion, blah blah, but the literary quality is better. The characters have more depth, and there aren't so many one dimensional cliches, and the like.
Marketing, that's why. F#*@ing marketing.
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Dresden files isn't for everyone. You have to have a certain tolerance to crapsack worlds in order to read the series. If you're the type who wants the good guys to always win the day, then nope, Dresden files isn't for you.
Besides some parts where Harry talks about faith, and throwing fallen angels left right centre may rub certain groups wrong.
I think you'd need to be mid teens to really get Dresden files and the targetted audience is more of 20+ range.
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Anyway generally books made into movies don't satisfy the book fans(Harry Potter is my example), so I don't really care whether Dresden Files makes it to movies or not. I probably wouldn't be satisfied with the movie if it did.
If I were making movies out of books I'd rather do the Belgaraid by David Eddings for bigger possible audience. I think that can be done PG rated.
I will agree that more than likely Hollywood couldn't do DF justice if it tried.
Paizo comment swapped, of course.
Eh, I totally disagree. I think the whole "Morality is totally black and white" schtick is the more juvenile approach to things.
Furthermore, adult language is a thing. Hell, it happens among the Potter age group. I was swearing in fifth grade, and I was one of the cleaner-mouthed kids in my classes growing up.
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Unfortunately, not well enough to say yes.My company is hiring. Do you speak any other languages then english?I'm seriously tempted.Businesses all around have announced that they aren't opening tomorrow for the safety of their employees.
My office is staying open.
My office is holding a job fair.
Anyone want to hire a somewhat surly middle-aged IT guy?
Yes.
Want to relocate to the netherlands?
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I can enjoy a bit of gray morality, but I prefer Black/White stories most of the time, or at least the good guys winning out at the end. :P Life's bleak enough as it is, I don't need my escapism being bleak too.
I can take a grayer scale then Lord Synos, but I also do want there to be some kind of happy ending. I'm not for the everyone dies kind of ending like Animorphs, though I understand why Rachel volunteered for that suicide mission. To die in battle so she wouldn't have to deal with the monster the war made her become.
Which is sad. But also understandable.
That is also the reason why I will not run anything for evil characters. Life's crappy enough as it is and I don't need more crappiness of kitten and puppy kicking in PBPs.
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It's g#~%!+n f!#!ing cold out today.
No f~%%ing school today.
The g&~!*!n f*$#ing shopping area down the f%*&ing street is f$*!ing closed because of a huge f~&*ing water main break, no s**#!
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At least the cold spell is supposed to break this afternoon!
Our high temperature tomorrow is projected to be a sweltering 15 degrees above 0!
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I'm not trying to be combative, btw, but I realize I may be coming across as such. This is one of those times where I really don't understand how the situation can be so obvious to both parties in completely opposite directions.
And I *really* don't understand Freehold's take. It should be even more of a trap if the alarm is silent. That lets the alerted defenders sneak up on the group and ambush them.
Oh for sure, it can be literally incredible when one of these topics come up and multiple parties go "Obviously it's this way because of X, Y, and Z...!"
I remember a thread from back in the day, it was over the question of a druid's animal companion sharing her armor restriction. To this day, I see the RAI one way and it boggles my mind how anyone can think it the other. If not for Freehold holding the contrary opinion, I might have assumed that all contrary posters in the thread were sock puppets of a min-maxer wanting 'peer' support for rules lawyering his toon.
I'm not trying to be combative, btw, but I realize I may be coming across as such. This is one of those times where I really don't understand how the situation can be so obvious to both parties in completely opposite directions.
And I *really* don't understand Freehold's take. It should be even more of a trap if the alarm is silent. That lets the alerted defenders sneak up on the group and ambush them.
silent only goes to the wizard who cast it and cannot alert others, at least in the situation we were in in game. The ruling made sense at the time, and we kinda went along with it in future games.
3. How did Harry Potter, in all its cliche, get an entire series of high budget movies, and this only got one weak Sci-Fi show? No accounting for taste. (Potter isn't bad, but it is cliche)Because Harry Potter was a bestselling series and Dresden Files are just good selling series?
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This is why we play Starfinder, I'm the only one that has read the rules (kind of) so what I say goes.
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3. How did Harry Potter, in all its cliche, get an entire series of high budget movies, and this only got one weak Sci-Fi show? No accounting for taste. (Potter isn't bad, but it is cliche)Because Harry Potter was a bestselling series and Dresden Files are just good selling series?
He's right. I like Dresden far more, but Potter was aimed at a younger audience - that means kids all the way up to adults are your market. Potter has less of a distinct voice, which also makes it more accessible.
Dresden deals with some rather adult themes, and some might find the wizard sarcasm off-putting. I disagree with those people, but that preference could affect sales.
Better selling =/= better series. Hollywood thrives on cliche and formula. The less they have to play with that, the more willing they'll be to put it on the big screen.
And don't get me wrong. I like Potter. But it is pretty archetypal.
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Eh, I totally disagree. I think the whole "Morality is totally black and white" schtick is the more juvenile approach to things.
Furthermore, adult language is a thing. Hell, it happens among the Potter age group. I was swearing in fifth grade, and I was one of the cleaner-mouthed kids in my classes growing up.
Kids encountering language is one thing. Kids reading an entire plot based around a porn shoot is another. I can definitely see some parents being justifiably iffy on Dresden if they knew about Blood Rites.
3. How did Harry Potter, in all its cliche, get an entire series of high budget movies, and this only got one weak Sci-Fi show? No accounting for taste. (Potter isn't bad, but it is cliche)Because Harry Potter was a bestselling series and Dresden Files are just good selling series?He's right. I like Dresden far more, but Potter was aimed at a younger audience - that means kids all the way up to adults are your market. Potter has less of a distinct voice, which also makes it more accessible.
Dresden deals with some rather adult themes, and some might find the wizard sarcasm off-putting. I disagree with those people, but that preference could affect sales.
Better selling =/= better series. Hollywood thrives on cliche and formula. The less they have to play with that, the more willing they'll be to put it on the big screen.
And don't get me wrong. I like Potter. But it is pretty archetypal.
interesting point.
Kids encountering language is one thing. Kids reading an entire plot based around a porn shoot is another. I can definitely see some parents being justifiably iffy on Dresden if they knew about Blood Rites.Eh, I totally disagree. I think the whole "Morality is totally black and white" schtick is the more juvenile approach to things.
Furthermore, adult language is a thing. Hell, it happens among the Potter age group. I was swearing in fifth grade, and I was one of the cleaner-mouthed kids in my classes growing up.
my favorite book in the series!
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For my next trick, anvils.
I honestly don't remember how I ruled that during my 3.x days, it didn't come up very often.
Using a loose definition of 'trap,' I can see roguing an alarm spell.
But using the common definition, I don't think alarm qualifies due to not murderizing anyone.
Then again in the game world fiction, to a roguing rogue, what's different about alarm and a spell that shoots lightning at intruders? Then again, what's different about alarm, a spell that shoots lightning at intruders, and any other lasting spell? From a game world perspective we don't know why rogues can only detect and disable magical traps, nor why they can directly interact with any spell in the first place, so the only thing that's clear is that the whole issue is very game-y.
My take on it is that alarm doesn't appear on the trap page nor does the spell say its a trap, so it's not a trap. Further there are no immediate detrimental effects when you trip off an alarm(you don't get summoned creatures after you, blasted by something etc). Sure it may be a pedantic reading of the whole thing but what were you expecting about a possibly (anally) lawful inevitable cat?
*gets dressed*
A quick reading leads me to think that the alarm spell is not a trap, although it can be used as part of one. So, no, I don't think I would allow a Perception check to see just the spell. Detect Magic should work, though.
1) a device or enclosure designed to catch and retain animals, typically by allowing entry but not exit or by catching hold of a part of the body.
2) a situation in which people lie in wait to make a surprise attack.
"we were fed false information by a double agent and walked straight into a trap"3) a container or device used to collect a specified thing.
"one fuel filter and water trap are sufficient on the fuel system"4) a light, two-wheeled carriage pulled by a horse or pony.
5) a device for hurling an object such as a clay pigeon into the air to be shot at.
6) short for trapdoor.
7-10) since these have nothing to do with mouths, jazz, drugs, or football, these can all be ignored to
Based off the first ten definitions of "trap" neither to PF "traps!"
That said, if we look at the idea of a "booby trap"...
A military booby trap may be designed to kill or injure a person who activates its trigger, or employed to reveal the location of an enemy by setting off a signalling device. Most, but not all, military booby traps involve explosives.
And so, it suddenly becomes a trap! While there is no "signalling device," per se, there is a spell - and that is what makes it "magic," instead. (Also, the description says, "typically," - it isn't an inherent part of the thing.)
Oh and if anyone had ever bothered to spell out what they meant by 'trap,' that definition may very well have included "...is in the DMG and has a CR." Which may or may not be RAI, but I'm sure that's the kind of trap that was immediately in mind when the rogue writeup was written.
That line of thought sounds like a trap! :V
Now if you really wanted to find alarm I might allow detect magic to spot it, since it's a spell over an area so it should leave some trace.
It even says emanation on the text...
I am very curious what you mean by "might allow." I mean, that's literally what (and all) detect magic does is... detect... you know... magic*?
Going beyond even this basic comparison, while detecting doesn't invalidate magical traps, it does often invalidate large portions of the adventure by having the PCs simply go around or go a different direction, or otherwise not engage with the thing, meaning you cna't run the adventure "as written" either (as many things are presumed to take place).
(Making two posts for easy readability!)
Regardless, let's look at "traps" let's look at what alarm would be as a magic trap ():
> Perception DC 30+ (cannot detect so effectively +infinite): +3
> Disable Device DC 30+ (cannot detect so effectively +infinite: +3
> Reflex DC 30+ (no DC to avoid so effectively +infinite): +3
> Attack Bonus 0 or lower (no attack, so...): -2
> Damage (no damage, so...): +0
> Misc. "Never Miss": +2
> Base CR of 1
> Plus spell level
That makes an alarm spell (if you don't let rogues do stuff to it) effectively 3+3+3-2+0+2+1+1 = CR 11. Huzzah! A single 1st level effect is effectively the same as a CR 11 trap.
I mean, though, even if you allowed a rogue to do its thing, it's still pretty strong (+2+2+3^-2+0+2^+1+2 = CR 10; the two "^" are questionable, however, if you can actually detect it, so I might drop the "+3" to a "-1" and second +2 doesn't really apply, so... +2+2-1-2+0+1+1 = CR 3.
That... I mean, that's still really strong for a first level caster to be able to do, but... I mean... it's far better than, you know, a level 1 wizard being able to out-do a CR 11 trap.
And if you, say, take away 1 for "basic" DC (because it's just a spell) and 1 for "lasts limited time" (because you have to recast it), that's down to a DC 9 (still very high or a DC 1 (about right).
Again, bear in mind, I'm not even using this to show that alarm actually is a trap: I'm using the internal rules to show how alarm not only falls directly and entirely within the realm of trap rules (you can follow everything except the "limited duration" part), but, if presumed to be a trap that rogues can bypass suddenly fits into its expected CR range, while it clearly does not, otherwise.
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((Again, for the point of clarity: I'm writing all this stuff up here for the purpose of making as comprehensive an argument as possible; but it's not to tell any of you that you are "wrong" to play the game your way - rather to give a comprehensive and thorough reasoning for a differing opinion. As to the druid/animal companion armor question, I absolutely think that RAW is one way, and "reasonable fluff" might lead to an entirely different way.))
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Since PCs will pre buff to gills before entering a dungeon complex - maybe its fair to give monsters a chance to, too. Thus maybe I'll allow the alarm to be detected. Maybe.
Also I have a soft spot for Casties since at low levels they're very limited by number of spells they have per day, so...
Besides I always try to give things a literal interpretation.
Since PCs will pre buff to gills before entering a dungeon complex - maybe its fair to give monsters a chance to, too. Thus maybe I'll allow the alarm to be detected. Maybe.
Also I have a soft spot for Casties since at low levels they're very limited by number of spells they have per day, so...
Besides I always try to give things a literal interpretation.
1) how very non-RAW of you! I'm proud!
2) but... detect magic is at will...
3) how does this relate to number 1, then?
I will agree that more than likely Hollywood couldn't do DF justice if it tried.
Paizo comment swapped, of course.
thoughts on the TV show?
*rolls up a snowball and tosses it at Woran*:D :D :D :D :D
ladies, please, don't have a snowball fight in thread!
We still have about 15 inches of snow on the ground.
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It always delights me that:
(1) Ask a Rules questions on the Rules forums where it belongs = Infinite grar, no concrete answer, derailment of the thread into a flame war.
(2) Ask a Rules question on FaWtL = Polite disagreement and debate, no name-calling, and all in all a fairly comprehensive review of the rule in question.
Good thing other Rules posters don't know about us!
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Kids encountering language is one thing. Kids reading an entire plot based around a porn shoot is another. I can definitely see some parents being justifiably iffy on Dresden if they knew about Blood Rites.Eh, I totally disagree. I think the whole "Morality is totally black and white" schtick is the more juvenile approach to things.
Furthermore, adult language is a thing. Hell, it happens among the Potter age group. I was swearing in fifth grade, and I was one of the cleaner-mouthed kids in my classes growing up.
I have a very good friend (going on 27 years) who loves Dresden. Her eldest daughter is 15, and my friend is still concerned about letting her read the Dresden books due to some of the themes.
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It came up because a single 1st-level spell manages to render a rogue's entire reconnaissance ability useless: "Nope, it's not a trap, so you can't detect it." And Detect Magic is personal and requires concentration, so unless you go the Arcane Trickster route it's really not a feasible option. (Yeah, Minor Magic gets it for you 3x/day, but how long does it take to scout the perimeter of the fortress you're about to raid?)
We like our players to play intelligently, do recon, and prepare for the bad guys. But if the bad guys can do a single 1st-level spell that utterly destroys recon until the PCs get Prying Eyes or what-have-you, it's frustrating for all involved.
Anyway, Shiro realized that he doesn't have to put an "official" ruling in his AP (unlike every other AP we've run, he's trying to actually make his follow the rules). He can just let GMs run it the way they feel is appropriate.
His feeling is similar to something stated previously: By Pathfinder's official definition of a trap, a tripwire attached to a bell is not a trap, but a tripwire attached to a small stick is (presuming said small stick is the balance point for a large stone).
Since rules /ne logic in this case, he prefers logic.
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thoughts on the TV show?I will agree that more than likely Hollywood couldn't do DF justice if it tried.
Paizo comment swapped, of course.
The Dresden TV series disappointed me.
I didn't have an issue with Paul Blackthorne at all as Harry - maybe not what was in my head, but I didn't have any reactions of "Really? Him?"
I had an issue with their portrayal of Bob. No issue with Terrance Mann, really, but far too clean, and I don't really like the take of him as a "human" spirit wandering around the house.
They changed details that they absolutely didn't have to. And that bothered me. The little things that should have been slam dunk easy were changed. The Blue Beetle needed to be there, and it just felt wrong that he was driving a Jeep Wrangler with no personality instead.
They kind of tried to squeeze entire books into one episode. No. Maybe each and every book doesn't work well stretched across an entire 13-episode season, but that's a better show than trying to stuff what is obviously half the story of Fool Moon into a single episode.
It should have been a good show. It was handled badly.
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OMFG!!!!
One of our most popular sales guys announced his retirement today to all the various sales lists.
He didn't BCC: the lists.
Yes. This morning I am getting DOZENS of "congratulations on your retirement" emails.
REPLY ALL IS NOT A GOOD THING!!!!
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I just had to set up an email rule to auto-delete a pile of automated emails coming in about a humidity sensor in Atlanta. There's a technician there and an entire other IT team that's responsible for that, and it's not even an office in my division of the company. I don't need my email flooded about a humidity sensor trip.
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It may be childish (in fact, it is), but I am eternally amused by the number of modern singers who elide the "r" in party.
From Eddie Murphy's infamous, "My girl likes to potty all the time" to Rihanna's, "I just came here to potty," I just can't stop giggling at the sheer number of women with incontinence problems in modern pop.
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*postbombs the thread after missing 2,016 posts since last visit*
Dresden Files is definitely not for kids. Mature adolescents, sure -- with some guidance. Skin Game, as I recall, is where the sexual particulars finally stray into an "adults only" zone, but, then, I was reading Forsyth by the time I was twelve (I'm not warped at all! Really!). And, fortunately, Butcher isn't *crude* with it . . . .
I haven't seen any of the TV series; I have read each of the books at least four times (and that's simply because i don't own them all. yet.).
Thoroughly enjoyable, relatable characters, comprehensive presentation of the human condition, dynamic setting and plots, and . . .
Love it!
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In other news:
I am well. Ish.
My nephew will not call me by my name; he does, however, call me "Batman". I'll take it. (He's TWO already!)
We're playing RotRL with Spheres of Might and Power, and it looks like we'll be derailing in another direction now that we've finished Chapter One. (Related: pyroblaster clerics with the Ranged Healing talent are amazing!)
I hope all of you are doing well. I might start visiting more often again! Who knows?!
Much love.