I probably would enjoy working for NH. He seems, you know, component.
But 20 years working in more fields I could remember, I can say I've had about 4 compotent bossses, 2 who weren't narcissistic a@~+@!$s...the rest...f***ing idiots promoted via nepotism and the peter principle who ignore intelligence and innovation in favor of cronyism and traditionalism and "because we've always done it this way."
I'm a very bitter man when it comes to employment. I don't mean it in an arrogant way, but it will probably come across as such: people would rather promote a dumbass than a smartass, because personality matters more than merrit.
competent?
Same comment but nude.
The irony is I'm excwptional at interpersonal relationships and conflict resolution...the venting is what I THINK but don't usually say.
Except in interviews for jobs I dont want. I go to tnose to practive interviewing without working. It's REALLY fun. Show up and realize they aren't interviewing you: you're interviewing them. When you don't want the job you can talk s+## about your last boss (a big interview no no) tell them you won't work holodays, your birthday, your family memvers' birthdays, or MLK. If they say anything yell they're racist monsters and storm out of the room saying you're calling the NAACP. Exceptionally fun if you're white. Say you have a shy blatter and need to drive home for bathroom breaks. Company car is mandatory.
How does this help real interviews? You would be surprised how it loosens you up later, if only for the laughs.
Look. I'm thumb typing. Things happen. Ask the cap's phone.
Fair enough but I still request you delete the double post.
Done. Unfortunately the man is in Californis, and I'm not giving up my ferret.
Probanly. I mean as long as I have my dog. But I'd really rather not.
Stupid law, Cali. Ferrets rock.
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Glue a dead wasp on the palm of your hand and you can go around slapping people on the head and claiming that you saved them.WTF. I mean really wtf.
Yeah, WTF? Gluing a dead Wasp to your palm and slapping people on the head would provoke the considerable wrath of Hank Pym, if not all the MCU.
I'm not worried. Half of them are dead, anyways.
He makes a good point.
Doom also agrees.
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I much prefer physical books to e-books. I like being able to come across interesting, random stuff second-hand, I like the cover art, and I like it when people annotate their copies or use assorted items/documents as improvised bookmarks. I don't like reading long documents on a small screen.
Yeah I prefer having the book in hand myself.
Fair enough but I still request you delete the double post.
Isn't that why you can flag double posts, so you don't have to delete them yourself.
Fair enough but I still request you delete the double post.Isn't that why you can flag double posts, so you don't have to delete them yourself.
Why make more work for others?
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Look. I'm thumb typing. Things happen. Ask the cap's phone.
Breathe. Sunflower. Rainbow. Three to the right, four to the left. 450.
Breathe. Sunflower. Rainbow. Three to the right, four to the left. 450...
Why make more work for others?Fair enough but I still request you delete the double post.Isn't that why you can flag double posts, so you don't have to delete them yourself.
You're giving someone else job security.
Lisa Stevens: Well, we were going to fire Gary Teter out of a cannon, but then we got a bunch of flags for double posting... We'll do it tomorrow!
Why make more work for others?Fair enough but I still request you delete the double post.Isn't that why you can flag double posts, so you don't have to delete them yourself.You're giving someone else job security.
Lisa Stevens: Well, we were going to fire Gary Teter out of a cannon, but then we got a bunch of flags for double posting... We'll do it tomorrow!
HA well maybe Gary likes the canon.
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Have you ever noticed you never see Cable and Thanos in the same movie.
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Have you ever noticed you never see Cable and Thanos in the same movie.
if only we never saw you in a movie.
Pssh I'm still waiting for a proper representation of DOOM.
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Woo! My procrastination paid off! There is a tire sale I didn’t know about which saves us serious money right now! :)
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Have you ever noticed you never see Cable and Thanos in the same movie.if only we never saw you in a movie.
Ouch! Do you kiss my mother with that mouth!
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I probably would enjoy working for NH. He seems, you know, component.
But 20 years working in more fields I could remember, I can say I've had about 4 compotent bossses, 2 who weren't narcissistic a$@$~@!s...the rest...f#@*ing idiots promoted via nepotism and the peter principle who ignore intelligence and innovation in favor of cronyism and traditionalism and "because we've always done it this way."
I'm a very bitter man when it comes to employment. I don't mean it in an arrogant way, but it will probably come across as such: people would rather promote a dumbass than a smartass, because personality matters more than merrit.
I think you'd be surprised. I'm a "fair but harsh" taskmaster:
I can't tell you how many people over the years have objected to the hideous color scheme, done their own thing, refused to be on the committee that made such decisions, and forced us to make them re-work everything because y'know, people don't just make up standards for no reason.
So yeah, "Do your job. Follow the standards. I'm happy."
It's apparently surprisingly hard.
Done. Unfortunately the man is in Californis, and I'm not giving up my ferret.
Probanly. I mean as long as I have my dog. But I'd really rather not.
Stupid law, Cali. Ferrets rock.
California's animal ownership laws are all based around being an agricultural state.
Most states took the approach of, "It's legal unless we ban it."
California took the approach of, "If we haven't explicitly made it legal, it's illegal."
Unfortunately, then the guy who wanted to get ferrets legalized was a complete a$$hat and went around pissing off the legislature to the point that many of them said, "As long as I'm alive, ferrets will remain illegal in this state."
The two bits of bright news are:
(1) Most of 'em are dead, so there's hope,
(2) Nobody cares. Ferret ownership is in the millions around here. You can buy ferret gear at pet stores (even ferret shampoo), take your ferret to the vet, etc., etc., and as long as you don't rub the authorities' faces in it (and your ferret is fixed), you're unlikely to have any issues.
Just for goodness' sake don't bring an unfixed ferret into California. THAT'LL get you rung up on felony charges, 'cause the agricultural industry is really serious about non-indingenous animals.
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I probably would enjoy working for NH. He seems, you know, component.
But 20 years working in more fields I could remember, I can say I've had about 4 compotent bossses, 2 who weren't narcissistic a$@$~@!s...the rest...f#@*ing idiots promoted via nepotism and the peter principle who ignore intelligence and innovation in favor of cronyism and traditionalism and "because we've always done it this way."
I'm a very bitter man when it comes to employment. I don't mean it in an arrogant way, but it will probably come across as such: people would rather promote a dumbass than a smartass, because personality matters more than merrit.
I think you'd be surprised. I'm a "fair but harsh" taskmaster:
If I say, "I want this by end of day Thursday," I actually expect it by end-of-day Thursday, and I expect it to have been done in a reasonable manner, not in a last-minute, "Oh, carp! He actually means it! I'd better throw something together" way.
That's the big one: I expect my co-workers to be competent at their jobs. It is apparently a VERY high bar for most people.
If I say, "Here is the template and the color palette the standards committee agreed on, so this is what you have to use," I expect you to use it.
I can't tell you how many people over the years have objected to the hideous color scheme, done their own thing, refused to be on the committee that made such decisions, and forced us to make them re-work everything because y'know, people don't just make up standards for no reason.
So yeah, "Do your job. Follow the standards. I'm happy."
It's apparently surprisingly hard.
most people chafe against the mindless obedience that is held up as a virtue in corporate enviornment. Futurama got it very much correct.
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most people chafe against the mindless obedience that is held up as a virtue in corporate enviornment. Futurama got it very much correct.I probably would enjoy working for NH. He seems, you know, component.
But 20 years working in more fields I could remember, I can say I've had about 4 compotent bossses, 2 who weren't narcissistic a$@$~@!s...the rest...f#@*ing idiots promoted via nepotism and the peter principle who ignore intelligence and innovation in favor of cronyism and traditionalism and "because we've always done it this way."
I'm a very bitter man when it comes to employment. I don't mean it in an arrogant way, but it will probably come across as such: people would rather promote a dumbass than a smartass, because personality matters more than merrit.
I think you'd be surprised. I'm a "fair but harsh" taskmaster:
If I say, "I want this by end of day Thursday," I actually expect it by end-of-day Thursday, and I expect it to have been done in a reasonable manner, not in a last-minute, "Oh, carp! He actually means it! I'd better throw something together" way.
That's the big one: I expect my co-workers to be competent at their jobs. It is apparently a VERY high bar for most people.
If I say, "Here is the template and the color palette the standards committee agreed on, so this is what you have to use," I expect you to use it.
I can't tell you how many people over the years have objected to the hideous color scheme, done their own thing, refused to be on the committee that made such decisions, and forced us to make them re-work everything because y'know, people don't just make up standards for no reason.
So yeah, "Do your job. Follow the standards. I'm happy."
It's apparently surprisingly hard.
I don't consider "following basic instructions" the same as "mindless obedience, all hail."
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Something I learned in the Army. You can do something while being in complete disagreement with it. Gripe about the standards all you want, as long as you comply with them. That's following orders, not mindless obedience, and if you see something unlawful, that's when you pause and raise the question.
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Something I learned in the Army. You can do something while being in complete disagreement with it. Gripe about the standards all you want, as long as you comply with them. That's following orders, not mindless obedience, and if you see something unlawful, that's when you pause and raise the question.
Yep. That's us.
"This is the most hideous thing imaginable, but it's the standard, so it's how I'm releasing it. And if the powers-that-be don't like it, I'll point 'em at the standard that THEY SET."
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Something I learned in the Army. You can do something while being in complete disagreement with it. Gripe about the standards all you want, as long as you comply with them. That's following orders, not mindless obedience, and if you see something unlawful, that's when you pause and raise the question.Yep. That's us.
"This is the most hideous thing imaginable, but it's the standard, so it's how I'm releasing it. And if the powers-that-be don't like it, I'll point 'em at the standard that THEY SET."
there is a reason i am neither in the military or corporate worlds.
Remember, the process is there to protect you. (Among other things.) They can't fire you for doing what was asked of you.
In fact, it's the only way bad processes ever get improved.
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Well, here, in a nutshell, is my experience:
(1) Something goes wrong.
It could be that someone gets injured. It could be that the materials are coming out so disjointed that they're not readable. It could just be that the person who developed the materials wasn't taking people with disabilities into account. But something "bad" happens.
(2) The powers-that-be decide to do something about it.
OK. I'll be the first to admit, this is where stupidity happens. For example, there may be an industrial accident, and OSHA will get involved. And then, without looking at existing safety protocols, and without a single person who has ever worked on a factory floor on the committee, a new regulation will be proposed. This is why government manuals tend to be hundreds, if not thousands, of pages long. No one ever bothers to go back and look at existing rules that might get slightly modified; they just add new ones.
(3) No one provides any input.
This is the one that kills me. For example, we have a standards committee. They are desperate for input. Every 6 months we get a plea, "Please come join us and help us with the standards! Everyone complains about them, but no one suggests how to improve them!"
OSHA posts proposed rules for review. We have committees that invite open commentary. And no one ever goes because it's too boring.
(4) Yet another rule (YAR) gets implemented.
It may or may not be stupid.
(5) The workers, looking at the massive tome that is the current set of rules, choose to ignore them and do their own thing.
(6) Go back to step (1).
So in my mind, the issue is that if you care, you should be involved in steps (2) and (3), sitting on committees and providing feedback, rather than acting as the rebel in step 5.
I'm perfectly happy to implement what they tell me to. The ONE time I got involved in a committee was when they tried to add a whole bunch of white empty space to a page. I got involved, I went to ONE meeting, and I got the decision overturned.
So, if you're at a corporation/government entity where the powers-that-be don't give a rat's patootie about your input, then yeah, it sucks. But having worked for a video store, private schools, public schools, small private corporations, and large public corporations, I have *always* been invited to be on those committees, and my managers have made it clear that I was welcome to attend the meetings on work time.
As we've been mentioning, it may well be the difference between white-collar and blue-collar jobs. But I'm betting that factory workers would find that they have some mechanism to suggest improvements in safety processes. I'm not sure; OSHA is infamous...
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...
I went to (the reasonable fascimile of) a standards meeting once. My boss (very politely) told me to keep my mouth shut beforehand. I was never invited back unless it was for training.
We work in VERY different fields.| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Today, I am shiny and chrome! Score one for ingenuity! I had to build a dirt pusher for our mini bobcat, to get dirt into the Colossal Void.
Okay, this is a message to any of you who hire for your company, or advertise on Indeed, or otherwise look for employees.
It's 2018. I'm not filling out an application until I have my W2. If I can't send you a resume, you're a waste of my time. My resume has everything in your application. I'm not filling out 9 pages of paperwork for a "maybe". The economy is too good to deal with your stupid corporate b~*@$~$*.
Hi guys! How's everyone's day going? :-D I'm at Panera refilling my coffee like it's my IV fluid keeping me alive and job hunting.
I already got like 5 replies from just two days' of lazily submitting resumes and waiting, barely even trying. Love. This. Economy!
...I went to (the reasonable fascimile of) a standards meeting once. My boss (very politely) told me to keep my mouth shut beforehand. I was never invited back unless it was for training.
We work in VERY different fields.
Wow. Yeah. That's just stupidity. Sorry to hear it.
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Okay, this is a message to any of you who hire for your company, or advertise on Indeed, or otherwise look for employees.
It's 2018. I'm not filling out an application until I have my W2. If I can't send you a resume, you're a waste of my time. My resume has everything in your application. I'm not filling out 9 pages of paperwork for a "maybe". The economy is too good to deal with your stupid corporate b@!!@*!*.
Hi guys! How's everyone's day going? :-D I'm at Panera refilling my coffee like it's my IV fluid keeping me alive and job hunting.
I already got like 5 replies from just two days' of lazily submitting resumes and waiting, barely even trying. Love. This. Economy!
Amusingly enough, I'm 100% with you there.
"You want me to spend an hour filling out paperwork just to apply to your job? Seriously?"
The *only* jobs where I ever did that were the teaching jobs, only because every school did it. Otherwise yeah, it's just, "Here's my resume. Call me if you're interested. No, I am *not* going to fill out your 9-page survey."
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Yeah, NH - for all your annoyance at when your company is, well...stupid...you should know that's pretty much the bog standard for most corporations, non-profits, charitable profits, self-proprietorships, partnerships, and any other combination or variance thereof of any company that could possibly employ you.
The fact that you're ever even mildly surprised by this blows my mind, as I'm sure it does other people who've had to deal with this kind of idiocy, like Freehold.
Stupidity is the corporate norm, because the paths to the top are...
1: Psychopathy (how you become a CEO, COO, CFO, VP, or other high corporate executive - a multitude of studies show our elite corporate officers are composed primarily of narcissists and psychopaths)
2: Nepotism/Cronyism (the main way people make it to middle management, usually leading to morons running the peons)
3: The Peter Principle (usually ends up with mediocrity at best)
Hard work, talent, and anything actually viable to the company, if it is not accompanied by a lack of moral fiber, is usually left drudging at the bottom, almost always that "one guy who gets things done" that everyone knows, always works late, and is never rewarded.
...at least that's been my experience, both personally and via watching my colleagues, hearing from my wife (who works for a major grocery chain's corporate HQ), over about 20 years of work in quite a few different fields, including education, manufacturing, retail, sales, call centers, health care (mental and physical), gambling, service, and more than I can possibly remember...and the above pattern almost never changes.
This not knowing who favorited what thing...I don't like. It is unpleasant that this was added in my absence.
Also, Monster.com is not for people who are looking for a job. It's for people who want shinier golden parachutes.
Done. Unfortunately the man is in Californis, and I'm not giving up my ferret.
Probanly. I mean as long as I have my dog. But I'd really rather not.
Stupid law, Cali. Ferrets rock.
California's animal ownership laws are all based around being an agricultural state.
Most states took the approach of, "It's legal unless we ban it."
California took the approach of, "If we haven't explicitly made it legal, it's illegal."Unfortunately, then the guy who wanted to get ferrets legalized was a complete a$$hat and went around pissing off the legislature to the point that many of them said, "As long as I'm alive, ferrets will remain illegal in this state."
The two bits of bright news are:
(1) Most of 'em are dead, so there's hope,
(2) Nobody cares. Ferret ownership is in the millions around here. You can buy ferret gear at pet stores (even ferret shampoo), take your ferret to the vet, etc., etc., and as long as you don't rub the authorities' faces in it (and your ferret is fixed), you're unlikely to have any issues.Just for goodness' sake don't bring an unfixed ferret into California. THAT'LL get you rung up on felony charges, 'cause the agricultural industry is really serious about non-indingenous animals.
Brynjolf and Karliah (my gf's ferret - yes, she named it that on purpose cause mine was Brynjolf) are both fixed. (Side note - I took to calling Bryn "Buddy" over time, and it stuck, and it's sorta his name now - so she calls K "Holly", because puns are fun)
Maybe Cali can get added on the list. Mayyyyyyybe.
...but moving from hot and wet to hot and...well...sometimes wet sometimes dry?
Website feedback says they have a fix on favoriting they'll roll in with the next update.
This not knowing who favorited what thing...I don't like. It is unpleasant that this was added in my absence.
Also, Monster.com is not for people who are looking for a job. It's for people who want shinier golden parachutes.
iirc, monster started a job search service for people who wanted exactly that a few ago.
Yeah, NH - for all your annoyance at when your company is, well...stupid...you should know that's pretty much the bog standard for most corporations, non-profits, charitable profits, self-proprietorships, partnerships, and any other combination or variance thereof of any company that could possibly employ you.
The fact that you're ever even mildly surprised by this blows my mind, as I'm sure it does other people who've had to deal with this kind of idiocy, like Freehold.
There's a *big* difference between "annoyed by" (which I am) and "surprised by" (which I'm not).
However, I am fortunate in that I am "that one guy who gets things done", but I am indeed recognized and rewarded for it, and have been at every non-government company I've been at.
Probably because management knows darned well that if they didn't throw me at least that bone, I'd walk. And they can't afford to lose me.
EDIT: But yes. Upper management at every company I've ever worked for has been narcissistic, cronyistic, short-sighted, etc.
I was at one public school where there was a HUGE outcry when the school president got a raise to put her salary higher than the governor of California's.
She proceeded to try to explain why the president of a small community college was worth more than the governor.
It was... impressive.
Why are ferrets bad for agriculture? They eat mice, don't they?
And how are people avoiding those 9-page job app questionnaires? The last time I got a job without doing one was back in high school applying to the local YMCA. Virtually every company I've applied to since then requires those ridiculous digital questionnaires.
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Why are ferrets bad for agriculture? They eat mice, don't they?
And how are people avoiding those 9-page job app questionnaires? The last time I got a job without doing one was back in high school applying to the local YMCA. Virtually every company I've applied to since then requires those ridiculous digital questionnaires.
I'm old.
EDIT: And the whole ferret thing falls directly into our discussion of corporate stupidity. The agricultural industry opposes legalizing any animal for fear it might have unforeseen consequences. The environmentalists oppose legalizing any animal for fear of what it might do to the environment, even when fixed.
Combine those two lobbies and you have two of the most-powerful lobbies in California opposing a single issue.
Sense doesn't come into play here.
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I think here's the difference:
- If I were invited to a VP-and-above-level meeting where they were discussing future product direction, what features to include, and what markets to target, I wouldn't be surprised if my manager said, "Just listen in and keep your mouth shut," since those decisions are made by people far above my level.
- On the other hand, if I were invited to a meeting where we were discussing what software tools *I* would be using to do my job, what standards I was going to be required to adhere to, etc., and my manager said, "Just listen in and keep your mouth shut," I'd be downright offended, and I'd pipe up anyway. If it involves *my* job and how I do it, then *I* should be able to provide feedback.
The company did try ONCE to force a new product down our throats without consulting us. Productivity across the entire division dropped by (I kid you not) over 90%. We gave presentations on why the tool was impossible to use. We even pointed out that the people who had made the decision to use the tool didn't use it. Once we caught them at that, they backed off and let us go back to the tools we'd recommended.
So I'm at a $100 billion-plus company. I see all kinds of boneheaded executive decisions. I see a horrifically-incompetent upper middle management.
But in terms of my day-to-day job, I *am* allowed to provide feedback as to the standards and the tools I use, and my opinion *is* listened to.
The same thing applied back when I was a professor, both public and private.
But yeah, I've heard utter horror stories about anything having to do with retail and government. I'm sure those two are totally different animals.
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So far today I've finished a wall, filled a colossal void, and now I'm farming boulders.
OK, I'm bemused.
5:02 am: "Disney Rewards wants to hear from you! Please take our survey!"
12:15 pm: NobodysHome starts the survey
Question 1: What language are you most comfortable with? English or Spanish?
English.
We're sorry. Too many respondents have already answered with similar preferences, so we no longer need your feedback. Thank you!
I am speechless.
EDIT: I mean, seriously: "We would like to see how well our services satisfy our multilingual guests. Please click here if your native language isn't English" would have been FAR more polite...
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So yeah, "Do your job. Follow the standards. I'm happy."
It's apparently surprisingly hard.
And yet...
So I'm at a $100 billion-plus company. I see all kinds of boneheaded executive decisions. I see a horrifically-incompetent upper middle management.
Hmm...
Why would someone chafe under such a system, I wonder...
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So yeah, "Do your job. Follow the standards. I'm happy."
It's apparently surprisingly hard.And yet...
So I'm at a $100 billion-plus company. I see all kinds of boneheaded executive decisions. I see a horrifically-incompetent upper middle management.Hmm...
Why would someone chafe under such a system, I wonder...
An employee's inability to follow basic instructions is not always the result of boneheaded leadership. I understand that you've struggled with a bad boss. That doesn't automatically make management the sole problem. Sometimes poor management is completely irrelevant to wanting people to follow simple instructions, a problem completely separate from the employee's performance.
Putting this in my field, you're essentially telling me that I'm wrong to complain that a student didn't do well on a worksheet because they didn't read the instructions...because you disagree that my administration has us start the day with the Pledge of Allegiance.