Question is in above. I've looked through the books I have and can't find anything definite. Has Paizo released any official images of the thing?
Here's my take on it, by no means official ;)
There's a pic of an elf jumping high in the air with a big long elf curve blade on the cover of "elves of golarion"
(the guy in the background, right in front of the giant tree...)
Linkfixed
like an elven nodachi.
I believe they look like the two-handed swords the Elves use in the Lord of the Rings films
http://bit.ly/f64Ctr
|
Okay, forgive me for asking this, because clearly I'm not paying attention.
Why, exactly, is this post in the Gunslinger Discussion forum?
I mean, it's a perfectly valid question. I just don't think it should be here.
But given the number of replies, including several from Gunslinger Enthusiasts, I have to assume there's a reason, and I'm just not seeing it.
A little help?
EDIT: if it is here by mistake, I beg the mods to leave it in place. Because it is hilarious.
I believe they look like the two-handed swords the Elves use in the Lord of the Rings films
I own one of those. Though it looks beautiful, it's freakin heavy I can't figure out how to wield it effectively. Just saying.
I believe they look like the two-handed swords the Elves use in the Lord of the Rings filmsI own one of those. Though it looks beautiful, it's freakin heavy I can't figure out how to wield it effectively. Just saying.
Perhaps if your blade had been forged in Middle Earth, the balance would be better
I believe they look like the two-handed swords the Elves use in the Lord of the Rings filmsI own one of those. Though it looks beautiful, it's freakin heavy I can't figure out how to wield it effectively. Just saying.
What's your STR and DEX? ;)
But seriously, having messed around enough rebar swinging and twirling in my youth, I can't imagine how difficult a double bladed weapon might be to use. Then again, it'd be balanced properly and I'd be practicing with it daily and in better shape to handled it.
|
|
I believe they look like the two-handed swords the Elves use in the Lord of the Rings filmsI own one of those. Though it looks beautiful, it's freakin heavy I can't figure out how to wield it effectively. Just saying.
Do you actually own one? as in, one that was actually used on the movie set? as in, actually used by stunt doubles to whack other stunt doubles? as in "so completely battle ready I can use it to smash a cinder block to pieces wihtout a scratch"?
Because, while I don't have a LotR replica, I DO have a Large (about 32 inches to the guard) "Badger Blade" (google if you want to check out their web site). I've used it to smash figure-8 concrete building blocks apart without denting the edge, much less snapping the blade in half.
I ask you to clarify, and provide a detailed description of my own experience, because it's important.
My sword is hard to swing around for an extended period of time, but I'm not exactly a professional soldier. That said, holding it in my hands and swinging it around, I can say with confidence that if I were a professional soldier who spent hours every day for months training to use the weapon, I could do so for a long period of time.
A proper battle-ready sword is made from Carbon Spring Steel, and requires regular polishing to keep it from rusting. A proper battle-ready sword is also balanced, to the point that I can take my 32 inch sword, put it on the narrow top of a dining room chair at about an inch from the hilt, and it balances perfectly, like a teeter-totter.
For comparison, I also have several very nice and fancy-looking wall pieces. They are made of Stainless steel, the hilts are finely decorated, the blades tend to wobble a little in the hilt, and they have terrible balance despite weighing less than my proper sword. I've only swung them around a few times, because I know they can break easily, but they aren't just heavy, they are awkward; it's like swinging a club.
I bring all of these details up, not to brag or bore, but to ask the quoted poster something.
In all honesty, is the Lord of the Rings Replica you purchased a sword, or is it a (very nice looking) piece of art?
EDIT 1: There is nothing wrong with owning a very nice looking piece of art. As I said, I have several. They just aren't swords.
EDIT 2: I have absolutely no problem with the concept of the Elven Curve Blade, even if it is somewhat unrealistic. I play games where elves on dragons shoot lighting from their fingertips by wiggling their fingers and chanting. I play games where robots made by a group of rebel aliens are trying to conquer the galaxy, and the it's up to the space marine and the guy with psychic powers swinging a laser sword to save the universe again.
Screw realism.
I believe they look like the two-handed swords the Elves use in the Lord of the Rings films
http://bit.ly/f64Ctr
That's exactly what I thought of when I read the description of the weapon. I pass the picture around when people want to know what it looks like.
I believe they look like the two-handed swords the Elves use in the Lord of the Rings filmsI own one of those. Though it looks beautiful, it's freakin heavy I can't figure out how to wield it effectively. Just saying.What's your STR and DEX? ;)
But seriously, having messed around enough rebar swinging and twirling in my youth, I can't imagine how difficult a double bladed weapon might be to use. Then again, it'd be balanced properly and I'd be practicing with it daily and in better shape to handled it.
Just keep in mind that a 4 - 5 foot bar of rebar is a lot heavier than the vast majority of historical two-handed swords (even the big ones). If I remember correctly I think the average two-handed sword was something like 5lbs with the heaviest being up around 8lbs. While those numbers may not be 100% accurate we know that the swords used in combat were not nearly as heavy as the ornamental ones (which are like 10+ lbs.) that you see in a lot of museums.
And we all agree that if we spent all day working with our hands and practicing with our weapons it would probably be a lot easier.
Do you actually own one? as in, one that was actually used on the movie set? as in, actually used by stunt doubles to whack other stunt doubles? as in "so completely battle ready I can use it to smash a cinder block to pieces wihtout a scratch"?
As you might have guessed, mine is merely a replica.
If I'm not mistaken however, stunt doubles don't usually go around whacking each other with real metal swords either. Although they have finely crafted steel blades for the "hero" weapons in close-ups, I believe most swords being swung in battle scenes were merely painted fibreglass.
Question is in above. I've looked through the books I have and can't find anything definite. Has Paizo released any official images of the thing?
IMO
This elf is holding one: WotC Elf with Court BladeOr the longest one here: Races of the Wild weapons
I sure would like an official Pathfinder version Elven Thinblade.
-Swiftbrook
I believe they look like the two-handed swords the Elves use in the Lord of the Rings films
http://bit.ly/f64Ctr
...or an elven nagimaki.
|
|
Do you actually own one? as in, one that was actually used on the movie set? as in, actually used by stunt doubles to whack other stunt doubles? as in "so completely battle ready I can use it to smash a cinder block to pieces wihtout a scratch"?As you might have guessed, mine is merely a replica.
If I'm not mistaken however, stunt doubles don't usually go around whacking each other with real metal swords either. Although they have finely crafted steel blades for the "hero" weapons in close-ups, I believe most swords being swung in battle scenes were merely painted fibreglass.
yes, good point.
I was just trying to drive home the point "is it a weapon, or is it artwork?"
A weapon is balanced and thus significantly easier to use than a piece of art, even one that weighs less.
But I think we've gone sufficiently off-topic.
(Note: sections of text removed for brevity)
Because, while I don't have a LotR replica, I DO have a Large (about 32 inches to the guard) "Badger Blade" (google if you want to check out their web site). I've used it to smash figure-8 concrete building blocks apart without denting the edge, much less snapping the blade in half.
I ask you to clarify, and provide a detailed description of my own experience, because it's important.
My sword is hard to swing around for an extended period of time, but I'm not exactly a professional soldier. That said, holding it in my hands and swinging it around, I can say with confidence that if I were a professional soldier who spent hours every day for months training to use the weapon, I could do so for a long period of time.
A proper battle-ready sword is made from Carbon Spring Steel, and requires regular polishing to keep it from rusting. A proper battle-ready sword is also balanced, to the point that I can take my 32 inch sword, put it on the narrow top of a dining room chair at about an inch from the hilt, and it balances perfectly, like a teeter-totter.
I feel the need to make a few quick point before addressing the thread topic, in order to foster a greater understanding of the subject matter:
1)Badger Blades are a poor comparison to movie swords in terms of being 'real swords'. They may be very durable, but there are many swords for similar prices that should be vastly superior in terms of handling.
2)The balance of real swords depends on many factors, such as: blade profile taper, blade thickness taper, handle length, and pommel weight. The placement of the center of gravity is not terribly important, and will vary based on blade design. A CoG of 1" is usually a tip-off that your blade is poorly balanced. (It usually comes from the maker giving the sword waayyy more pommel than it needs)
3) 32" is about average size for a Medieval or Renaissance one-handed sword, not large.
Now, on to the topic at hand:
I'm a big fan of the Elven Curve Blade, as I think of it as a good analog for the 2-handed saber, which is in fact a real thing, and not cheesy or unrealistic at all.
In my games they look like this or this or this. The 1st is a good example of a real historical sword type, the others are fantasy swords, albeit fine ones. (I'm especially partial to the 3rd.) My brother had the 1st one, and it is very agile, although I think I would make a bit bigger one to model the Curve Blade since it is a 'two hands only' sword.
How did this end up in gunslinger discussion? I posted it in general!
It's an elvish hand and a half katana....."ducks"....
What I really want to know is: How do you fight with one? Would the technique be anything different from other two-handed weapons?
It's a pretty generic question, but I can help a bit.
I'm assuming you're talking about the other 2-handed swords here, so in a very generic sense I'd say more like a bastard sword in two hands than a great sword. Because of the nature of the blade, you're obviously going to focus on cuts and slices over thrusts, and will be a little more flexible when it comes to close-in action.
If you go with the LotR version some people mentioned above, then it's going to be sort of a cross between a sword and an axe.
I can get more specific on either of those if you like.
It's an elvish hand and a half katana....."ducks"....
Yeah, basically. :)
EDIT: Although, isn't 'hand and a half katana' sort of redundant?
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
|
I can get more specific on either of those if you like.
That would be a big help. My GM likes to describe the battles in detail, and our magnus in the group uses an elven curve blade. To help the GM, I have found video and websites for my character's fighting style (I play a Spartan, it was just my luck that the APG came out the day before we started) and our battle oracle who uses the broadsword and shield. Our bard uses a bladed scarf, and that has given me trouble. However, I think it would be like the kung-fu chain fighting seen in kung-fu movies.
The elven curve blade has been giving me difficulty because of it's fantasy nature. I imagined that the weapon focused on slashing more then anything else, but I have seen demonstrations with curved bladed like the scimitar that used the tip. In this sense, the curve was used to get around the body to puncture the back or into areas with less armor.
I imagine that most non-proficient users would pick up this blade and try to hack with it, but a proficient user might be more fluid in their movement. Almost like the more elegant katana techniques, where the movement is just as much an art as it is a form of killing. The blade would be wielded so that the curve would be used not to just gain excellent slicing ability, but to move the point around to weaker parts of the target. Additionally, I seem to have this idea of broad sweeping movements, keeping a momentum going and never coming to rest.
Am I wrong in this idea, or is that a possible way it would be wielded?
I can get more specific on either of those if you like.That would be a big help. My GM likes to describe the battles in detail, and our magnus in the group uses an elven curve blade. To help the GM, I have found video and websites for my character's fighting style (I play a Spartan, it was just my luck that the APG came out the day before we started) and our battle oracle who uses the broadsword and shield. Our bard uses a bladed scarf, and that has given me trouble. However, I think it would be like the kung-fu chain fighting seen in kung-fu movies.
The elven curve blade has been giving me difficulty because of it's fantasy nature. I imagined that the weapon focused on slashing more then anything else, but I have seen demonstrations with curved bladed like the scimitar that used the tip. In this sense, the curve was used to get around the body to puncture the back or into areas with less armor.
I imagine that most non-proficient users would pick up this blade and try to hack with it, but a proficient user might be more fluid in their movement. Almost like the more elegant katana techniques, where the movement is just as much an art as it is a form of killing. The blade would be wielded so that the curve would be used not to just gain excellent slicing ability, but to move the point around to weaker parts of the target. Additionally, I seem to have this idea of broad sweeping movements, keeping a momentum going and never coming to rest.
Am I wrong in this idea, or is that a possible way it would be wielded?
I personally am not a big fan of the idea that the curve is used for getting around an opponent's defense for 2 reasons-
1) Someone who knows what he's doing can defend against that just fine.
2) A thrust like that just doesn't have the power to deal with any decent sort of armor.
That being said, it can work well in the right situations.
As for the big sweeping strikes and maintaining momentum, that's certainly a valid style. It's not necessary unless you have an especially heavy blade, or perhaps if you've been surrounded by several opponents. Still, it is a type of fighting that was used in some parts of the world- look up Jogo do Pau for an example. (It's stickfighting, but it uses the basic concept, at least) I think the Chinese Miao Dao is a style very much like this as well.
I would prefer a more measured style, making attacks intended to force an opening. The key advantages to using this sort of blade are the enhanced cutting and slicing ability. In fighting context, a slice is when you draw the edge across your opponent instead of swinging it into them. A curved blade makes this both easier and more effective in my experience.
If you can find good videos of Kriegsmesser, that would be what I'm talking about. I couldn't find any, but you can get the idea by imagining a combination of messer and longsword.
For the LotR version, I'll have to get back to you. I imagine if you can find anything about Da Dao or Nagamaki, that this weapon would be pretty similar to either of those.
|
(Note: sections of text removed for brevity)
Because, while I don't have a LotR replica, I DO have a Large (about 32 inches to the guard) "Badger Blade" (google if you want to check out their web site). I've used it to smash figure-8 concrete building blocks apart without denting the edge, much less snapping the blade in half.
I ask you to clarify, and provide a detailed description of my own experience, because it's important.
My sword is hard to swing around for an extended period of time, but I'm not exactly a professional soldier. That said, holding it in my hands and swinging it around, I can say with confidence that if I were a professional soldier who spent hours every day for months training to use the weapon, I could do so for a long period of time.
A proper battle-ready sword is made from Carbon Spring Steel, and requires regular polishing to keep it from rusting. A proper battle-ready sword is also balanced, to the point that I can take my 32 inch sword, put it on the narrow top of a dining room chair at about an inch from the hilt, and it balances perfectly, like a teeter-totter.
I feel the need to make a few quick point before addressing the thread topic, in order to foster a greater understanding of the subject matter:
1)Badger Blades are a poor comparison to movie swords in terms of being 'real swords'. They may be very durable, but there are many swords for similar prices that should be vastly superior in terms of handling.
2)The balance of real swords depends on many factors, such as: blade profile taper, blade thickness taper, handle length, and pommel weight. The placement of the center of gravity is not terribly important, and will vary based on blade design. A CoG of 1" is usually a tip-off that your blade is poorly balanced. (It usually comes from the maker giving the sword waayyy more pommel than it needs)
3) 32" is about average size for a Medieval or Renaissance one-handed sword, not large.
Now, on to the...
This is a bit off topic, but in Fellowship, the elves with the curved bladed "katana-things" my brother and i called them oh so long ago, were swung from their right side in a vertical circular arc. They were sort of spun using the leverage from your bottom hand to generate momentum. Maybe that's how they are supposed to be used? I always thought it was just a fancy title for a O-Tachi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n037Qpm7vWA&feature=related
0:40 For the Whirlwind cut of death wall.
http://www.samurai-swords-for-sale.com/store/images/P/japanese-swords-ritte rsteel-great-katana-odachi.jpg
ODachi
What I really want to know is: How do you fight with one? Would the technique be anything different from other two-handed weapons?It's a pretty generic question, but I can help a bit.
I'm assuming you're talking about the other 2-handed swords here, so in a very generic sense I'd say more like a bastard sword in two hands than a great sword. Because of the nature of the blade, you're obviously going to focus on cuts and slices over thrusts, and will be a little more flexible when it comes to close-in action.
If you go with the LotR version some people mentioned above, then it's going to be sort of a cross between a sword and an axe.
I can get more specific on either of those if you like.
It's an elvish hand and a half katana....."ducks"....Yeah, basically. :)
EDIT: Although, isn't 'hand and a half katana' sort of redundant?
Yes, it is redundant, but most people I have come across seem to view katanas as being more akin to longswords, which is wrong, just seems to be a common view amongst people I know.
This is a bit off topic, but in Fellowship, the elves with the curved bladed "katana-things" my brother and i called them oh so long ago, were swung from their right side in a vertical circular arc. They were sort of spun using the leverage from your bottom hand to generate momentum. Maybe that's how they are supposed to be used? I always thought it was just a fancy title for a O-Tachi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n037Qpm7vWA&feature=related
0:40 For the Whirlwind cut of death wall.http://www.samurai-swords-for-sale.com/store/images/P/japanese-swords-ritte rsteel-great-katana-odachi.jpg
ODachi
Well, it's just a movie... but you are right about using leverage with the bottom hand. That's common with all weapons that let you space your hands that far apart, because it allows the weapon to be much more agile than it would be otherwise.
I'm thinking that you would use it a lot like other two-handed slashing swords. The major differences I have thought of would be:
1) Increased agility from being able to space your hands farther apart.
2) You could slide your top hand down as you cut to chop with it like an axe, if you're looking for an extra powerful blow.
3) The long handle could be really useful as a lever for throwing your opponent.
Yes, it is redundant, but most people I have come across seem to view katanas as being more akin to longswords, which is wrong, just seems to be a common view amongst people I know.
That's actually a problem with D&D/Pathfinder causing some confusion there. In RL, there is no functional difference between a longsword and a bastard sword. They are essentially the same thing. In the past, the sword D&D calls a longsword would have been just called a sword, or perhaps a riding sword or arming sword.
Also, in both size and weight, a katana is actually very similar to the arming sword. It's the long-handled design that makes it a hand and a half sword.
Seems to me, by description, really it would just be a two-handed scimitar made by elves and finessable cause it's thin and light. So, not unlike this one...
I always picture Soul Reaver.
Not in response to the question, just generally.
http://bit.ly/p9Hajv
|
Question is in above. I've looked through the books I have and can't find anything definite. Has Paizo released any official images of the thing?IMO
This elf is holding one: WotC Elf with Court BladeOr the longest one here: Races of the Wild weapons
I sure would like an official Pathfinder version Elven Thinblade.
-Swiftbrook
That book had really good art for a 3.5 book.
|
The dwarf fighter from the Rival Guide that is part of the Children of Steel has one in his hand for his picture (pg 12). That is the only picture of one as far as I know. It sort of looks like a cross between a khopesh sword and a giant scimitar. If you see the picture in the first link on this thread, and triple or so the width of the blade, thats fairly close.
Seems to me, by description, really it would just be a two-handed scimitar made by elves and finessable cause it's thin and light. So, not unlike this one...
+1 I have a crappy, tourist-bait version of this with about 15 inches of handle over maybe 4 of tang (I said it was crappy!). If it had a legit tang to the hilt, it would likely be more serviceable. Being made of low-grade mild steel, it will never make it as a real weapon. Still, it looks neat.
A two-hand curved blade wielded by an elf?
I always think of Haldir's sword from Jackson's Two Towers.