Currenly I am running a 1st lvl Wizard in one of the games im in. Is it worth it to bust out and multi class? What are the best classes for a wizard (i want wizard to be a large part of the build)?
Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!
WAYLORN CR 1/2
Male Human Wizard 1
NG Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +4; Senses Perception +5
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DEFENSE
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AC 14, touch 14, flat-footed 10. . (+4 Dex)
hp 8 (1d6+2)
Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +3
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OFFENSE
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Spd 30 ft.
Melee Dagger +2 (1d4+2/19-20/x2) and
. . Quarterstaff +2 (1d6+3/20/x2) and
. . Touch Attack +2 (As Spell/20/x2) and
. . Unarmed Strike +2 (1d3+2/20/x2)
Ranged Crossbow, Light +4 (1d8/19-20/x2) and
. . Ranged Touch Attack +4 (As Spell/20/x2)
Wizard Spells Known (CL 1, 2 melee touch, 4 ranged touch):
1 (3/day) Color Spray (DC 16), Sleep (DC 16), Mage Armor
0 (at will) Disrupt Undead, Light, Sotto Voce (DC 15)
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STATISTICS
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Str 14, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 20, Wis 13, Cha 11
Base Atk +0; CMB +2; CMD 16
Feats Academy Graduate, Cosmopolitan: Sense Motive, Perception, Scribe Scroll, Wizard Weapon Proficiencies
Traits Black Sheep - Titus Scarnetti: Stealth, Extremely Fashionable: Intimidate
Skills Bluff +5, Concentration: Wizard +6, Diplomacy +1, Intimidate +5, Knowledge: Arcana +9, Knowledge: Dungeoneering +9, Knowledge: Religion +9, Perception +5, Sense Motive +5, Spellcraft +9, Stealth +9
Languages Abyssal, Aklo, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Draconic, Infernal
SQ Bonded Object: Ring (1/day) (Sp), Hand of the Apprentice (8/day) (Su)
Combat Gear Crossbow, Light, Dagger, Quarterstaff, Touch Attack, Ranged Touch Attack; Other Gear Backpack (13 @ 5 lbs), Ink (1 oz. vial, black), Inkpen, Parchment (sheet) (10), Ring, Rope, silk (50 ft.)
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Bonded Object: Ring (1/day) (Sp) DC 20 + spell level to cast spells without the bonded object. Once per day, you can cast any spell in your spellbook for free.
Hand of the Apprentice (8/day) (Su) Throw the melee weapon you are holding 8/day.
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A side note: Do Wizards get to make knowledge checks untrained?
It's very hard to say without knowing what your goals and motivations are for the character. When I want to multiclass another class in with an arcane spellcasting class, I usually opt for sorcerer because of the higher number of spells per day. Usually there aren't a whole lot of spells that fine tune the concept, so the limitation on spells known isn't usually a big drawback, and that can always be addressed with magic items.
I had never thought of it before, but thinking back, wizard is probably the one class I've never dabbled in other classes. I've always been too eager to gain wizard levels and never saw any other class as nearly the benefit for my characters as another wizard level was.
But I've done lots of rogue/sorcerers, ranger/sorcerers, fighter/sorcerers and even once in 3.5 dabbled in spellthief/sorcerer.
I've thought about a rogue/wizard mix, because rogues can benefit from lots of spells, but never actually built one.
It's very hard to say without knowing what your goals and motivations are for the character. When I want to multiclass another class in with an arcane spellcasting class, I usually opt for sorcerer because of the higher number of spells per day. Usually there aren't a whole lot of spells that fine tune the concept, so the limitation on spells known isn't usually a big drawback, and that can always be addressed with magic items.
I had never thought of it before, but thinking back, wizard is probably the one class I've never dabbled in other classes. I've always been too eager to gain wizard levels and never saw any other class as nearly the benefit for my characters as another wizard level was.
But I've done lots of rogue/sorcerers, ranger/sorcerers, fighter/sorcerers and even once in 3.5 dabbled in spellthief/sorcerer.
I've thought about a rogue/wizard mix, because rogues can benefit from lots of spells, but never actually built one.
The goal or motivation of the character is to be a Wizard that has a few other tricks up his sleeve. Kind of a street figther that learned the power of magic to aid in fighting. Check some of my trait selections and feats.
I dont know if the concept is workable as i started with a wizard. But i got to thinking of gravity bow and a lvl of ranger or 2...
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You could go 5 levels of wizard and 2 levels of fighter then predtige class to eldritch knight and continue gaining your wizard spells and be able to fit in melee. Take the magical knack trait and you'll keep a full wizard caster level too. :)
My Eldrithc knight also took craft wondrous item so I made all my gear, pumped up my dex and int so I have brutal spell DCs and I wear no armor but my AC is as high as our full fighter at 17th level. :P
You could go 5 levels of wizard and 2 levels of fighter then predtige class to eldritch knight and continue gaining your wizard spells and be able to fit in melee. Take the magical knack trait and you'll keep a full wizard caster level too. :)
My Eldrithc knight also took craft wondrous item so I made all my gear, pumped up my dex and int so I have brutal spell DCs and I wear no armor but my AC is as high as our full fighter at 17th level. :P
Could you post a build of this? I know very little about multiclassing and really dont want to end up with a high fluff low power build. This game is BRUTAL.
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Sure. First of all, I'm at work so I'll have to do this a bit later today. Secondly, What point buy are you using (or what die rolls did you get?) and what source books are allowed? Do you want to mix in the wizard fighter levels or take all of then then all the other? What level are you starting at?
Thanks
Sure. First of all, I'm at work so I'll have to do this a bit later today. Secondly, What point buy are you using (or what die rolls did you get?) and what source books are allowed? Do you want to mix in the wizard fighter levels or take all of then then all the other? What level are you starting at?
Thanks
Hit my spoiler in the first post.. I rolled 2 18's with this one :). We are only allowed PF Core or pretty much go by Hero Lab. We do have access to the APG and extra packages for HL.
Bottom line - Straight wizard is the most powerful way to develop this character. Anything that decreases your spell casting (taking martial classes does this in almost every way) makes you less powerful.
With that said, EK is now a very viable option. To qualify, you need proficiency with all martial weapons. There are four classes in core that enable you to qualify:
Ranger is good if you are frequently up against a favored enemy, but not that great otherwise. You need to even take a second level to get the combat style (a free feat). Since your fist EK level doesn't increase your casting, you would be 3 caster levels behind.
Fighter is better, as you get a bonus feat by taking one level of the class. EK also allows you to treat your EK levels as fighter levels in order to qualify for feats and such.
Paladin is an interesting choice, but you have to be Lawful Good. Paladins also rely heavily on charisma, and you have an 11. If you wanted to make a Sorcerer/Paladin/EK, that could be a really bad-ass character, but that isn't what you are set up for now.
Barbarian is very good. If you take it at first level, you get 12hp. You also get Rage, which is a handy way to get a few bonus hp and combat abilities in a pinch. The main benefit in my opinion is the 10ft movement bonus. Combined with the toughness of the barbarian, this give you a lot of advantages.
As I said, Eldritch Knight is a viable option, but you are trading raw power for versatility. If you make some poor feat choices, and don't maximize your assets, you can end up with a 2nd rate caster/2nd rate fighter. However, you have awesome stats! If you pick a good concept, and work towards it, you could have a VERY powerful caster/combatant!
Note: Being an EK is actually very feat intensive. You kind of have to pick what kind of fighting you want to do: Melee, Ranged, Defensive, etc. If you are thinking of ranged, there are some great options!
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Hit my spoiler in the first post.. I rolled 2 18's with this one :). We are only allowed PF Core or pretty much go by Hero Lab. We do have access to the APG and extra packages for HL.Sure. First of all, I'm at work so I'll have to do this a bit later today. Secondly, What point buy are you using (or what die rolls did you get?) and what source books are allowed? Do you want to mix in the wizard fighter levels or take all of then then all the other? What level are you starting at?
Thanks
OK. Can I move stats around or do I need to leave them alone?
Also, Do you want to be melee oriented or ranged? Personally, I like going melee in heavy armor and focusing on touch attack spells with no save, buffs, and death effects. This means you don't have to pump Int as far and you'll be more effective in combat, especially at low levels when you run out of spells. You could also go ranged and cast blasty evocation spells.
Let me what you prefer and I'll throw up a build. 8)
Hit my spoiler in the first post.. I rolled 2 18's with this one :). We are only allowed PF Core or pretty much go by Hero Lab. We do have access to the APG and extra packages for HL.
print off a magus playtest and see if you can swap to that instead... it's pathfinder published material, only 6 pages or so to print off right now, and it'll be much easier to use it to build the concept you want right from the start instead of having to wait a few levels to get going. Maybe if you bring extra snacks the DM will allow it.
So pretty much the best thing to do is run wizard 20 with the way its setup? Sorry, cant swap stats...
I did get a few of the things i wanted with feats/skills. And its been fun playing him so far.
So pretty much the best thing to do is run wizard 20 with the way its setup? Sorry, cant swap stats...
I did get a few of the things i wanted with feats/skills. And its been fun playing him so far.
You can play him any way you want. The question is, What do you want him to do?
Given your stats, you would make an excellent straight wizard. But you would also be a great eldritch knight or arcane archer (or both). (But since you are human you can't be an AA). You have great dex, so you can be very effective with a ranged weapon.
I like the concept of wizard/ranger/EK. I bet that would be a fun character to play. Decent spells, decent combat abilities, great skills, great saving throws. All around great guy I think. I'd say Wizard 5/Ranger 1/Eldritch Knight X. Or take fighter instead of ranger. Pick up some archery feats and you are good to go.
Yes the lost caster levels will mean less raw power. But you are only down 2 caster levels, or 1 spell level. And you will have more survivability and more options as to what you can do. If you are a smart player than this will be better in the long run than the extra level of spells.
(But since you are human you can't be an AA)
That's been changed. Arcane archer is not race-restricted.
I would suggest if you are only having the one ranger level Guide would be a good choice asa the +2 to hit and damgage 1/day will effect spells as well as weapons (at least as far as i can see) while favored enemy is only for weapons.
Also 1 level of ranger opens several useful wands such as CLW CMW CSW and barkskin.
For a wizard/ranger/eldritch knight (especially with those stats), I'd have recommended an elf instead of a human: 1) you start with proficiency with bows, 2) you gain a +2 to Dex AND +2 to Int (the -2 to Con only costs you 1 hp/level and +1 from your Fort save; considering false life, it's not a huge hit IMO), and 3) you gain proficiency with the elven curve blade with your first ranger level.
A wizard 5/ranger 1/eldritch knight 10 has a +13 BAB (+15 with heroism active) and casts spells as a wizard 14 (CL 16 with the Magic Knack trait from the APG), making a decent archer/secondary combatant as well as filling the standard wizard role of battlefield control/utility caster.
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A side note: Do Wizards get to make knowledge checks untrained?No. All Knowledge skills are class skills to them though.
Actually let me rephrase. Anyone can make an untrained knowledge check IF the DC is 10 or less. Can't take 10 on it though.
Well, bards can make the checks untrained and get more than they would on a DC 10 check. :)
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Arcane Trickster can be done with 3 Level of rogue. Yes it can.
( Caster that can do rogue stuff. )( Cap Int some Dex Con )
18 Wizard 2 Rogue BAB 10 Caster Level 18 Sneek attack 1D6
( Caster that can do rogue stuff. But not as good at casting. )
10 AT 3 Rogue 7 Wizard BAB 12 Caster level 17 Sneek attack 7D6
( Jack of all trades effect for skills and combat. Your a 1/2 caster 1/2 rogue. So you can cast some spells.This lets you do combat or use spells. Due to using a difrent ability score requirements.) ( Dex Int Con Str in order of importance. Ray spell + sneek attack all day long. )
10 AT 5 Rogue 5 Wizard BAB 12 Caster level 15 Sneek attack 8D6