Eidolon Healing

[Adaephon]

I apologize if this has been addressed elsewhere...

I know that Summoners have access to healing magic (the "rejuvenate" spells), but I am unsure about the other types of healing.

I also know that eidolons are not subject to natural healing, but are they subject to the usual gamut of "cure" spells? What about healing via the channeled energy of clerics & paladins?

Thanks!

[Kierato]

Eidalons can be healed with other types of magic.

[darth_borehd]

Can they be helped by an application of the Heal skill?

[Eridan]

Everything will work , exception is natural healing due sleep or rest. Treat deadly wounds via heal skill will work too.

[KaeYoss]

The eidolon healing spells exist because they wanted to allow the summoner to heal his eidolon, but not anyone else. Other spells can heal the eidolon, but the eidolon spells cannot heal anyone else.

[Artanthos]

You could almost skip Rejuninate Eidolon and just take Infernal Healing. Almost.

[Mogart]

While we are on this odd subject. Does an eidolon need to sleep?

What if it is hit by some spell that causes the fatigued condition?

Normally someone sleeps for 8h to get rid of this condition, but does the eidolon sleep? (Otherwise it would require a casting of restoration to get rid of fatigued.)

[KaeYoss]

Mogart wrote:

While we are on this odd subject. Does an eidolon need to sleep?

It's an outsider. They don't eat, drink or sleep. Or, at least, they don't need to. They can still do it, and enjoy it immensely, but they won't starve, die of thirst or go nuts when they go a few centuries without any shut-eye.

[Mogart]

KaeYoss wrote:

It's an outsider. They don't eat, drink or sleep. Or, at least, they don't need to. They can still do it, and enjoy it immensely, but they won't starve, die of thirst or go nuts when they go a few centuries without any shut-eye.

So the question now becomes, "When my DM tells me that my Eidolon is Fatigued, how do I get rid of it?"

My DM has also ruled that since the eidolon doesn't heal naturally, it can't get rid of the fatigued condition that it gained from using its wings (AKA flight) for 4 hours.

In game terms I now need 100-1000g to cast restoration, in real terms I need to find a new game.

[StabbittyDoom]

Mogart wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:

It's an outsider. They don't eat, drink or sleep. Or, at least, they don't need to. They can still do it, and enjoy it immensely, but they won't starve, die of thirst or go nuts when they go a few centuries without any shut-eye.

So the question now becomes, "When my DM tells me that my Eidolon is Fatigued, how do I get rid of it?"

My DM has also ruled that since the eidolon doesn't heal naturally, it can't get rid of the fatigued condition that it gained from using its wings (AKA flight) for 4 hours.

In game terms I now need 100-1000g to cast restoration, in real terms I need to find a new game.

Whether they sleep or not, all creatures can rest. Rest != sleep. Rest means you're fully aware, but not doing anything difficult (maybe you're reading a book?)

[KaeYoss]

Mogart wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:

It's an outsider. They don't eat, drink or sleep. Or, at least, they don't need to. They can still do it, and enjoy it immensely, but they won't starve, die of thirst or go nuts when they go a few centuries without any shut-eye.

So the question now becomes, "When my DM tells me that my Eidolon is Fatigued, how do I get rid of it?"

They can sleep. They just don't have to. And Mr. Stabby made a good point, too: You can rest without sleeping.

Mogart wrote:

My DM has also ruled that since the eidolon doesn't heal naturally, it can't get rid of the fatigued condition that it gained from using its wings (AKA flight) for 4 hours.

Hit your GM upside the head. This is officially a silly ruling.

If he insists on splitting hairs, then submit to him that if they don't sleep, they're obviously not affected by fatigue. So they can fly for years at a time without ill effect.

Mogart wrote:

In game terms I now need 100-1000g to cast restoration, in real terms I need to find a new game.

100-1000g of what?

I think lesser restoration can work, too.

I'm not sure you need to find a new game. Maybe the GM will come to his senses. You can freely tell him that I thought he was being silly and cruel to his players - and the bad kind of cruel. You may call me by name.

If he wants to learn cruelly befitting a good GM, he might contact me and I'll give him a few pointers. This sort of rules lawyering is beneath a GM worth his salt.

[Pygmalion]

Thanks, everyone! I've been scouring the printed materials on this subject on behalf of a new player who has opted to be a kitsune summoner with a typical front-line built eidolon (so far, something between a rhinoceros and a pangolin, but relying for now on "bite"). Our GM (my roommate) flies on autopilot most of the time, that is, he keeps prep to a minimum and hopes that Rise and some iPad aps will cover his butt. As the junior GM and probable eventual GM (should he get hired and move out in the next couple of months), I do most of the leg-work keeping the gang together and informed. I have also GM-ed intro encounters for new players. Among them is this summoner. In addition, one of the goofier NPCs I built is classed as a summoner (disguised nixie summoner-druid-ninja).

I've put off the problem of eidolon therapy for a while, but as we prepare to release this summoner-eidolon duo into the wild of Rise of the Runelords at the conclusion of "Burnt Offerings", for the sake of this player and my GM/roommate, I'd like to have some clarity before proceeding. This thread has already helped tremendously, but I'd just like to confirm a few points.

First off, from the books I have gathered that "dead" eidola return at half hp, no sooner than 24 hrs later, with the exception of the "Summon Eidolon" spell, which might provide a sort of Star-Wars-y dialogue ("Use the Farce, Tartuffe!"). I have inferred that, whatever is meant by "healing naturally", "Cure" spells/potions and divine energy channeling work as normal. Moreover, there is nothing that would indicate that an eidolon experiences 0 hp or negative hp differently than a usual creature -- e.g. its master.

But, here's the problem: unless there is some other way to heal an eidolon, the summoner and/or another healer in the party have to use up precious spell slots to heal the eidolon whenever it takes damage. That is such a hindrance that I know it can't be right. Furthermore, if "Rejuvenate" spells are so indispensable, why are they on a spell list to be selected rather than automatically available as a spell-like or supernatural ability? Finally, it seems then that full hp, especially if max hp is high, is almost unattainable.

To this the above commentators have replied that "Heal" skill checks are also valid. This is a big relief. Summoners (and their comrades) can tend to wounded eidola on the Field of Mars Gorum and in triage units -- e.g. Uncle Abstalar's Temple of Whatever You Need It to Be. Maybe, just maybe, we can get those hp back up to their maximum.

So, let's look at some scenarios:

Scenario A. The eidolon is reduced to -4 hp and is bleeding out some kind of crazy, phosphorescent goop. It has a couple rounds left before it vanishes. If the master has an open spell slot and a "Rejuvenate Eidolon" spell known, then he/she could obviously try to bring his/her buddy back into the fray. If not ... what then?

Presumably, if dismissed, the eidolon will return (even if summoned two years later) at -4 hp and it may or may not still be bleeding out oozy goop (not ichor -- that's for gods and zombies). The upshot of this is that it can be done sooner than 24 hrs later, but the downside is that, especially with a low-level summoner, the healing spell (or cleric's healing burst) might only heal a few points.

I can see this being the intention of the game designers, I just would like to confirm that this is what we're dealing with.

Scenario B. The summoner is at 7th level (of the class), and the eidolon has benefited well from the luck of the cast, if only in respect to hp. This 6-HD monstrosity has a max hp total of over 50! The summoner, however, has opted to select 2-3 level-3 spells other than "Rejuvenate Eidolon". Maybe the summoner has "Lesser Rejuvenate Eidolon" -- let's give her/him the benefit of the doubt. Still, what with the fortune of war and all (e.g. lots of giants with two-handed weapons and stompy feet), this seeming "tank" of an eidolon has been brought so low as to be forced back to its home plane. Now what?

In 24+ hours, assuming the stompy giants and rampaging froghemoths haven't had the master (and his stand-in celestial grizzly) for lunch in the meantime, the eidolon will come back at, we'll say, 27 out of 54 hp. From there on, it needs to be the subject of healing bursts, healing spells (including the aforementioned "Lesser Rejuvenate Eidolon"), and skill checks in order to get up to the full 54 hp.

If that's how it is meant to be, that's cool. I'm just not sure if I'm missing something.

[blahpers]

Both scenarios appear accurate.

If you really want to be scared, figure out what happens if an eidolon takes an amount of Constitution damage equal to its Constitution score.

[David knott 242]

Officially, an eidolon killed by constitution loss comes back with a constitution score of 1.

Also, a Lesser Restoration or Lesser Restore Eidolon spell will remove the fatigued condition from an eidolon.

[blahpers]

David knott 242 wrote:

Officially, an eidolon killed by constitution loss comes back with a constitution score of 1.

Source?

Ah, they buried it in a FAQ about the synthesist. That ought to apply for any summoner, though the context is poor.

This will still be a pain if the eidolon took that damage from ongoing poison or some other affliction that persists after death.

[Pygmalion]

Thanks, guys. Really, with the specific meaning of "heal naturally" cleared up, it all makes much more sense. I just needed to conceptualize a little more. I will confess that I am, as yet, new to tabletop RPG-ing (but learning quickly).