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I would just want to request to the designers that the cost of firearms and ammunition be greatly reduced to fall in line with other weapons in the game.
A few reasons why:
The Pathfinder RPG is intended to be a generic ruleset, and the additional books offered in the RPG line are supplemental material that enhances the system as a toolbox. The GM can pick and choose what elements from this line work for the campaign they have devised.
Because of this, having mundane weapons have costs that are out of scale with other weapons actually creates problems for the GM if they want to insert these extra elements into their game. True, houseruling is always an option, but as a toolbox product it would be better if the elements fit together "out of the box" rather than needing modifying right from the start.
The big challenge with expensive firearms is that it throws the game economy off. As the GM you have a disincentive for NPCs and monsters to use firearms as a flavorful alternative. You can't have bands of goblins and orcs armed with the guns because their treasure value, after the presumed victory of the party, does not line up with what should be gained in your typical encounter. Likewise, NPCs in a city adventure could end up yielding great riches for a party, simply because the GM wished to add an interesting swashbuckling flavor the the villain.
If the prices are kept in line with other weapon and ammunition costs in the core RPG line then GMs will be able to insert firearms into their game in a way that makes sense within an imaginary world economy.
With the Golarion setting, where the weapons are intentionally supposed to be rare and generally isolated to one region, then the prices can be presented in that support material to reflect that, and in-campaign reasons and suggestions can be given to GM's using Golarion for the context of firearms to make sense.
I agree completely, especially for the optional price hike just for Golarion. Keeps the setting flavor while allowing those of us who home-brew to make use of the product. That being said I still think they should still be very expensive, just not four digits expensive.
Agreed. If you start off with 2 pistols, that's 2,000+ gp of treasure you're carrying compared to the 100-200 carried by other party members.
+4, agree w/everything.
I'm thinking 700 gp~ is more about right, especially for the class to start with it. PF already has the trait "Rich Parents" that starts you out with 900 gp over your normal, so its not insane at that point to start a character with one weapon at 700gp and some ammo (a build I did started with 10 shots).
I'm thinking 700 gp~ is more about right, especially for the class to start with it. PF already has the trait "Rich Parents" that starts you out with 900 gp over your normal, so its not insane at that point to start a character with one weapon at 700gp and some ammo (a build I did started with 10 shots).
So 600 for Pistols and 700 for musket?
So 600 for Pistols and 700 for musket?
Gotta double check some sheets, but I think I was looking at 700~ for pistol, 1000 for musket. Using the aforementioned trait as blueprint, we were able to allow a player to start with a firearm, ammo, and powder without getting wonky. Course, 600 for pistols could still be perfectly viable; musket should still roll in higher.
I will admit, I use price as a mitigating factor; I didn't want my characters dropping gun fire left and right and did want it rarer in the setting. The character utilizing the firearm used that as a first round shock weapon, followed up with some other weapons; typically short sword or throwing daggers. At the price quoted it was a significant investment in 1st level resources that was easier to bear as he leveled up.
We also ran on tweaked PF Campaign Guide rules (different misfire, exploding dice), not these, so I see where some issues lie there.
My own gunslinger build ran off a series of tactics and assumptions that they were a shock fighter; feats and features that distracted enemies, kept attention, and opened windows for others to sweep in. Actually shooting the gun was to be a tactical call not necessarily to constantly fire but wait it out a hair, let the allies get a leg up (bonuses to allies init, catching enemies flat-footed, etc), fire in with the chance to seriously cripple anything while the rest of the party jumped like wolves. Worked decently, been tweaking it all along the way. Only recently found the playtest here and comparing notes yet.
Course, I just dug out my 3.5 DMG, and prices are set there at 250gp per pistol, 500 per musket. 300 for pistol puts it at the range of a MW weapon enhancement~ Bullets are 35gp for 10, powder is 250gp for a barrel (320~ doses), 35 gp (320~ doses) for a horn~
Last night we play tested a high level gunslinger with all the feats to role off and load his shots for 5 attacks a round
In 4 combats he spent over 400 gold on gunpower not to mention when he had to use his adamantine bullets
So he was joking his character laughs at the poor for one shot he could feed families for a week
If your players want to use a gun, they're going to use a gun. Adding a huge price tag is just punishing them for liking different things.
If your players want to be way powerful, they aren't going to use a gun, no matter how much it costs.
If your players want to use a gun, they're going to use a gun. Adding a huge price tag is just punishing them for liking different things.
Its not exactly punishing; players will scream no matter what when they want something that doesn't jive with the larger feel/goal/whatever of the setting. As far as this end of things goes, attaching the price tag says "Ok, you want, it you can have it. You have to dedicate a lot of resources to it, so its up to you what you value more."
Sometimes, it really does just boil down to what do you want to turn up more, crossbows or firearms? Swords or exotic weapons?