Riding a huge sized dragon?


Rules Questions


Say you have an adult, huge-sized silver dragon who is quite friendly to your party (by virtue of being the half-dragon barbarian's mother.) Is it possible for her to give some or all of your PCs a lift on her back if it were an emergency? (Assume five PCs of normal size, one of which could fly on her own if need be.)

Grand Lodge

This is similar to a recent question about mounts. Unfortunately, there is no specific language in PF that stipulates mount size vs. rider size. Most people are using the 3.5 logic that the mount must be at least one-category larger than the rider. In our game, we have used the carrying capacity multipliers to determine the number of riders. So a huge dragon (x4) could carry up to four, small/medium creatures.

A gargantuan mount could carry up to eight small/medium riders. Large riders have a value of 2, so it could carry up to four large riders or any combination of small/medium/large that total 8 units.


Considering the size of the dragon, it might be more practical for her to carry some or all of the PCs rather for them to mount her; it's really just a matter of her strength and carrying capacity vs the party's combined weight. Being a huge-sized quadruped with a Strength score of approximately 27, that'd mean that her light load carrying capacity is just over one ton. So yeah, I imagine that she'd have little trouble with the burden.

Grand Lodge

I try to avoid a strictly weight argument because volume is not a factor. It can cause strange issues, like how many weapons can a fighter with a strength of, say 24, carry? By the encumbrance rules, he could easily carry two spare suits of full plate armor, ten longswords, ten longbows, etc. However, logically, that is just not possible. Yes, there are bags of holding and haversacks, but from a mundane standpoint, it makes no sense. It is left up to the GM to decide what is a reasonable amount of volume. Your dragon's max load is 4160 lbs. Assuming an average medium creature with gear would be around 225 lbs (with gear), that's eighteen people or upwards of 24 people (without gear). Assuming some are riding, some are being carried in claws, maybe some are grappling the dragon's tale, maybe, and I stress maybe, it could carry that many. But I don't think so.


Perhaps, but Strength = carrying capacity = weight carried is the simplest and only RAW way of gauging such an abstract notion. It might seem contrary to common sense, but so does a titanic six-limbed reptile getting airborne in the first place. Frankly, I have doubts that a dragon could realistically (I use that term in the broadest most fantastic sense possible) fly with even a single smaller humanoid creature sitting upright at the base of its neck; it's not exactly the most aerodynamic of positions and placements.

Considering the shear amount of weight a dragon can carry, even while flying, one has to imagine that they're the fantasy world equivalent of a heavy-lift helicopter. As long as the passengers aren't strapped directly to its wings, it probably doesn't much matter where or how they're holding on. Once the dragon starts beating its ultra-powerful wings then it, and anything attached, is going up into the air no matter what; gravity be damned.

Sovereign Court

TwilightKnight wrote:
This is similar to a recent question about mounts. Unfortunately, there is no specific language in PF that stipulates mount size vs. rider size.

wrong; read the Ride skill again:

"Ride (Dex; Armor Check Penalty)
You are skilled at riding mounts, usually a horse, but
possibly something more exotic, like a griffon or pegasus.
If you attempt to ride a creature that is ill suited as a
mount, you take a –5 penalty on your Ride checks.
"

and

"Fast Mount or Dismount: You can attempt to mount or
dismount from a mount of up to one size category larger
than yourself as a free action, provided that you still have a
move action available that round. If you fail the Ride check,
mounting or dismounting is a move action. You can’t use
fast mount or dismount on a mount more than one size
category larger than yourself.
"

Grand Lodge

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:


"Ride (Dex; Armor Check Penalty)
You are skilled at riding mounts, usually a horse, but possibly something more exotic, like a griffon or pegasus. If you attempt to ride a creature that is ill suited as a mount, you take a –5 penalty on your Ride checks."

Sorry, but this does not define what ill-suited is. There is no laguange indicating that size matters in this case.

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
"Fast Mount or Dismount: You can attempt to mount or dismount from a mount of up to one size category larger than yourself as a free action, provided that you still have a move action available that round. If you fail the Ride check, mounting or dismounting is a move action. You can’t use fast mount or dismount on a mount more than one size category larger than yourself."

While this does specify size, it is specifically in regards to what you can apply the feat to. It does not say that you cannot mount a creature of your same size, nor a creature more than one size category larger, you just cannot use the Ride skill to try and fast dis/mount. It implies that creature than are not one size category larger than you can still be ridden.


TwilightKnight wrote:
It is left up to the GM to decide what is a reasonable amount of volume.

Heh. As it so happens, I am that GM. Maybe if they crafted themselves either a wicker balloon basket or a sort of wooden box or...

Wait. The barbarian has a wagon that he's been hauling their gear in. By which I mean he's pulling it himself. (With the half-dragon thing and rolling high, his strength is ridiculous.) Could she carry that wagon in her claws?

Grand Lodge

Biichama wrote:
Could she carry that wagon in her claws?

Sure, I think that is reasonable

Sovereign Court

TwilightKnight wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:


"Ride (Dex; Armor Check Penalty)
You are skilled at riding mounts, usually a horse, but possibly something more exotic, like a griffon or pegasus. If you attempt to ride a creature that is ill suited as a mount, you take a –5 penalty on your Ride checks."

Sorry, but this does not define what ill-suited is. There is no laguange indicating that size matters in this case.

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
"Fast Mount or Dismount: You can attempt to mount or dismount from a mount of up to one size category larger than yourself as a free action, provided that you still have a move action available that round. If you fail the Ride check, mounting or dismounting is a move action. You can’t use fast mount or dismount on a mount more than one size category larger than yourself."
While this does specify size, it is specifically in regards to what you can apply the feat to. It does not say that you cannot mount a creature of your same size, nor a creature more than one size category larger, you just cannot use the Ride skill to try and fast dis/mount. It implies that creature than are not one size category larger than you can still be ridden.

The rules are pretty clear to me. I guess some people need more explanation than others.

Grand Lodge

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
The rules are pretty clear to me. I guess some people need more explanation than others.

The rules are clear to me as well. I guess some people read what they want to read in the language.


TwilightKnight wrote:

Sorry, but this does not define what ill-suited is. There is no laguange indicating that size matters in this case.

Personally I believe all manor of hostile creatures to be an ill suited mount.


What does the plot require?
What makes for the best story?

I'd let the PCs ride a hummingbird if it made sense to move the story in that direction.

Role-play the interaction out, roll a neat "wandering monster" check of . . . a red dragon. "Son, I've gotta put you down and go kick Smaug's butt. Good luck on your quest."

Liberty's Edge

As a dragon, I thought I'd weigh in here. I'm not as big as some silvers, but if I had to I'm pretty sure I could carry a whole adventuring party. I'd insist that the fliers fly under their own power so as not to burden me overmuch, but you medium-sized creatures really aren't all that big. I could pretty easily carry a small wagon, too, though I couldn't fly if it had beasts of burden with it.

But I'd make absolutely certain those kids know they're not riding me. I'm giving them a ride. It's like when your friend's mom comes and picks everyone up in the minivan - phrase your thanks like that.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

In a dragon that large, the characters aren't actually riding her, they are essentially baggage. They don't mount or dismount, they climb, or get an assist from the dragon itself.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I dunno if this helps or not, but the 3pp class The Dragonbound assumes one can ride a huge dragon, as they are dragon riders and the largest the dragon gets is huge.

I seem to remember the rule being a creature had to be at least one size category higher than the rider to be suitable as a mount...the only place I can seem to find this in the PRD is in reference to Eidolons being used as mounts...


Doug's Workshop wrote:

What does the plot require?

What makes for the best story?

I'd let the PCs ride a hummingbird if it made sense to move the story in that direction.

Role-play the interaction out, roll a neat "wandering monster" check of . . . a red dragon. "Son, I've gotta put you down and go kick Smaug's butt. Good luck on your quest."

... actually, I was planning on having a red dragon in all this. Momma Dragon will give them a lift... but in return she needs her son and his friends to do a favor for her. The kind that involves helping to defeat the red wyrm that stole her horde when she was away on business.

Heheheheheh.


I am thinking of making a half-dragon(+2 LA template) Half-Giant Barbarian and was checking out some of the rage powers. Since the half dragon naturally has 2 claw attacks (and a bite to boot) would taking the lesser beast totem grant an additional 2 claw attacks or just be rather useless? I wanted to make a nasty natural attack oriented build and am considering taking the lesser fiend totem for the gore, the fiend totem for the spikes when I get in close, and all 3 spirit totems for the additional damage and protection so far...


Well, for putting the party in the most efficient storage space possible, there's only one real question.

How hungry is the dragon?

In all seriousness the thing has a carrying capacity in the tons. I don't know how many people that is, but i know its a hell of a lot more than the party.

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