Is the community aware of combining Brass Knuckles and Amulet of Mighty Fists?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


When Advanced Player's Guide came out, I heard some murmuring of approval for the access to Brass Knuckles that Monks were given -- "They get enchantments like fighters now!" One of many small boosts in their favor that give them more of a 'role' in a group.

However, I was wondering if the community was aware of the idea of combining both the Brass Knuckles and the existing Amulet?

I understand that people are going to try to correct me first thing, so I'll pre-empt that with a snippet from the PFSRD.

Quote:
An amulet of mighty fists does not need to have a +1 enhancement bonus to grant a melee weapon special ability.

As it stands, a +10 weapon costs a character 200,000 gold. However, there are times when enchanting a weapon is more expensive than gaining, or improving, the amulet. And so, your character can actually gain a greater total enchantment by comining the two.

The two best combinations I've found, iirc:
+8 weapon (128k gold) and +3 amulet (45,000 gold) = 173,000 gold.
Compared to a +10 sword, it's an extra +1 enchantment with 27,000 gold left over.
+8 weapon (128k gold) and +4 amulet (80,000 gold) = 208,000 gold.
Compared to a +10 sword, it's an extra +2 enchantment, though you need to overspend by 8,000 gold to get it.

It may not affect the Monk through his whole progression, or necessarily that much, but there's the concept. Any troubleshooting or comments are welcome (including "OLD", hahah).

Sovereign Court

I've definitely seen it speculated on around here somewhere but my search-fu is weak...


Xpltvdeleted wrote:
Name Violation wrote:
personally, I let the cetus use monk damage, and even be enchanted. Monks should have an option other than amulet of mighty fists
The question is, would the amulet function with the cestus?

Ahah! Our idea has an owner!


Here are all the most efficient combinations of Magic Weapon + Amulet of Mighty Fists.

Here's a Google Spreadsheet version, with columns that really work.

Here's the messy forum version:

1 - 2,000 - Weapon +1
2 - 7,000 - Weapon +1, Amulet +1
3 - 13,000 - Weapon +2, Amulet +1
4 - 23,000 - Weapon +3, Amulet +1
5 - 37,000 - Weapon +4, Amulet +1
6 - 52,000 - Weapon +4, Amulet +2
7 - 70,000 - Weapon +5, Amulet +2
8 - 92,000 - Weapon +6, Amulet +2
9 - 117,000 - Weapon +6, Amulet +3
10 - 143,000 - Weapon +7, Amulet +3
11 - 173,000 - Weapon +8, Amulet +3
12 - 207,000 - Weapon +9, Amulet +3
13 - 242,000 - Weapon +9, Amulet +4
14 - 280,000 - Weapon +10, Amulet +4
15 - 325,000 - Weapon +10, Amulet +5

I would probably buy a +1 weapon, then upgrade to +1 Ki Focus, and go with mainly numeric upgrades after that point. Then I'd use the Amulet of Mighty Fists "+1" to get good, but potentially narrow abilities. Like Bane or holy, so that I could switch them around to suit.


4 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the errata.

Yeah, it`s been brought up before...
I don`t think there`s any Paizo feedback on how it specifically works, but I think a good number of people do use it.

The amount of gold it saves really hinges on whether you believe Monks can Flurry with just one `main hand` weapon, or need 2 separate weapons (incl. double weapons like Quarterstaves, coincidentally a Monk weapon) to gain the off-hand attacks from Flurry. To my knowledge, there hasn`t been Paizo feedback on that issue either.

I believe they need 2 weapons for this (since Flurry works like 2WF whose additional attacks are off-hand, i.e. a separate weapon), in which case the pricing of Amulet of Magic Fist makes much more sense since it`s applying to ALL weapons... That would make this `trick` (combining Amulet + 2 Knuckles) save even more money.

If you believe you only need 1 weapon to make all Flurry main/off-hand attacks (which the OP apparently does, since he`s comparing to 1 weapon) then Blueluck`s table looks accurate. Like he mentions, another advantage to doing this is modular `swapping out` of different weapon/amulet combos.


Really, you don't even need Ki Focus. Brass Knuckles is an Unarmed attack (both in text and in column listing), and Stunning Fist is triggered after an unarmed attack.

Although, I should really track down the errata to make sure my source is still valid.

Edit: Or not? Research shows this is another point of contention. Will investigate further.


Its been speculated on but the legality is pretty questionable and up to the DMs.


Why would the enhancement bonus from knuckles stack with the enhancement bonus from the amulet?

You cannot wear bracers of armor and simply add the AC value to your full plate.

You could have both the brass knuckle and the amulet. the brass knuckle would only enhance that fist (if the bonus on the knuckles is the bigger bonus), while the amulet does the rest of the body.

Also, a monk can do his whole flurry with a single weapon if he so wishes. Or all weapons, or any combination. The quarterstaff is the only double weapon the monk can flurry with.


Enhancement boni don't stack Skull, but special abilities do.


Skull wrote:

Why would the enhancement bonus from knuckles stack with the enhancement bonus from the amulet?

You cannot wear bracers of armor and simply add the AC value to your full plate.

You could have both the brass knuckle and the amulet. the brass knuckle would only enhance that fist (if the bonus on the knuckles is the bigger bonus), while the amulet does the rest of the body.

Also, a monk can do his whole flurry with a single weapon if he so wishes. Or all weapons, or any combination. The quarterstaff is the only double weapon the monk can flurry with.

They don't stack. The brass knuckles can be used to add special properties while the amulet can be used for the increase to attack and damage. If you attack specifically with the brass knuckles the bonus from the amulet would not take affect because even though the brass knuckles allow you to attack with the force* from unarmed strike the it is not an unarmed strike itself, and therefore not affected by the amulet. If you attack with a kick for example the amulet should apply, but not the bonuses from the brass knuckles.

*"Monks are proficient with brass knuckles and can use their monk unarmed damage when fighting with them."

The monk unarmed damage is simply that, and has nothing to do with the damage from the amulet.

PS:Just building off of your post to express how I view it.

Dark Archive

Troubleshooter wrote:
Xpltvdeleted wrote:
Name Violation wrote:
personally, I let the cetus use monk damage, and even be enchanted. Monks should have an option other than amulet of mighty fists
The question is, would the amulet function with the cestus?
Ahah! Our idea has an owner!

Mwahahahahaha


A lot of the argument from the last thread appears to be hinged on "Are the brass knuckles unarmed." I'm going off of memory here, so cut me some slack.

The pro-argument is that the Amulet of Mighty Blows applies to unarmed attacks, and that the brass knuckle is an unarmed attack.

The anti-argument replies that the paragraph description for the knuckles says that they are a weapon, and that you are Armed when attacking with a weapon, thus it is not unarmed.

The pro-argument notes that they are part of the Unarmed Attack subcategory, even if it is a weapon, along with Unarmed Strike and Gauntlets. They point to page 182, "Armed" Unarmed Attacks, as stating that unarmed attacks can be considered 'armed'; that they are not mutually exclusive.

The anti-argument states that the Unarmed, Simple, Martial and Exotic descriptors are used solely for the purpose of determining proficiencies, and that there is no other effect of something being under Unarmed Attack.

I'm sure there was other stuff but I'm tired and giving it a rest. Anybody willing to contribute more apt summaries is free to do so, but from what I understand, the crux is whether or not the 'unarmed attacks' that the Amulet mentions is referencing A. Attacks from an Unarmed Attack subcategory or B. Attacks that are not Armed.

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