Converting the Dvati race to Pathfinder


Conversions


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I'm intending to convert the Dvati to Pathfinder. The Dvati is a PC race that was introduced in D&D back in the 2nd or even the 1st edition (not sure about this one), and got a 3.5 update in Dragon Magasine Issue #271 of May 2000 (and got a reprint in the Dragon Magasine Compendium).

The whole gimmick about the Dvati is that it, or should I say 'they', have two identical bodies sharing the same soul.

+2 to one ability score: The dvati, like humans, didn't have ability adjustments back in 3.5, so it could fit.

Humanoid (dvati)

Medium

Normal speed: 30 feet

Darkvision: 60 feet

One mind, two bodies: This is THE most difficult racial trait to convert so I really need your help for this one.

- A dvati is essentially two identical bodies sharing the same soul, and as a result, they gain numerous advantages and disavantages due to this unique quality.

- A pair of dvati twins is considered a single creature in all purposes. They progress in a single class at the same rate as a single-bodied character, gain experience points together at the same rate and level up at the same rate; one twin cannot level in a class while the other levels into another class.

- As a pair of twins, both twins have their hit points equally split; a dvati character with 60 HPs would have twins with 30 HPs each.

- Each twin acts on the same initiative count and each has a full round worth of actions; one twin can take a move action then a standard action, while the other twin take a full-round action.

- Spells require both twins to spend their actions casting the spell; both twins must make the somatic components and speak out the verbal components, although only one twin mut supply the material components and/or the focus. The casting is treated as a normal casting, including attacks of opportunity and situations that require a concentration check. If either twin is already in a situation that requires such a check, the casting is subject to the situation, even if the other twin is fine.

- Class features come from the soul, not the bodies, so both twins share the abilities, the pool of spells per day and spells known.

- Spells with the range of "personal" affect both twins at the time. Otherwise, they affect only one twin. Other spells function as normal; touch spells only affect one twin. A dvati's spell conductor trait allows it to share some spells to affect both twins.

- Mind-affecting spells and effects target the dvati's soul, as such both twins become affected if either twin fails the saving throw.

- Both twins can telepathically communicate between each other regardless of range, location and plane. This does not extend to a twin's sense, so one twin cannot see or hear what the other is sensing. As a full-round action, a twin can focus and determine the other twin's current hit poitns and mental state. Finally, each twin knows the relative direction and distance of each other if separated and on the same plane.

- If one twin dies, the other immediately takes 1d4 points of Constitution and Wisdom damage and a -1 penalty to attack rolls, skill checks and saving throws. Each day after, the remaining twin takes the ability damage and the -1 penalty until it dies or until the dead twin returns to life. This condition happens only when one twin is killed to -10 hit points. Thus, a petrified twin does not cripple the other twin, unless it dies in this state.

Paired Link: When both twins flank a foe, they each gain a +3 bonus to attack rolls instead of +2. One twin using the aid another action to help its other twin grants a +4 bonus to attack rolls, skill checks or Armor Class, instead of +2.

Spell Conductor: A dvati twin can shift a spell effect cast on it only to its other twin as a move action as long as both twins are on the same plane.

Automatic Languages Common and Dvati. Dvatis with high Intelligence scores can learn any language they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic)
--
So this is what I had in mind. Noticeable modifications are the addition of an ability score modifier, the removal of the Echo Attack, which was basically a move action with a Perform (sing) check to grant a +1 bonus while flanking to attack rolls or as a Dodge bonus for 1 round, and the modification of the Twin trait, renamed One Mind, Two Bodies.

What do you think ?


I always thought the hardest part of using the Dvati were:
a)clearing them with your GM and working them into the party
b)working them into the fluff of the world.
That said, the mechanics look decent and sensible from a reading, but field testing a dvati character (both of them ~_^) might be more useful in the long run.

One question arises though: Would one dvati pair share the same +2 ability adjustment, or could they possibly apply them to different abilities (given that identical twins are sometimes slightly physically different)?


Daviot wrote:
One question arises though: Would one dvati pair share the same +2 ability adjustment, or could they possibly apply them to different abilities (given that identical twins are sometimes slightly physically different)?

As a dvati PC has only one character sheet, both twins have the same adjustment; if a player chose that he or she would like to have a dvati character with a +2 to Dexterity, both of the twins have it.

I understand that twins are sometimes different (dude, twins sometimes even have different voices despite the same physical appearance), but if I go by a strict reading, and even by a few answered questions by the original creator of this race (he commented a few issues back in the WotC boards a few years back), both twins are 100% identical.


Well mechanically ok, but you would be playing the same character twice... so do they both feal what the other feals, and hear what each thinks etc ?


Shizvestus wrote:
Well mechanically ok, but you would be playing the same character twice... so do they both feel what the other feels, and hear what each thinks etc ?

They cannot feel what each other is physically feeling, but since they can communicate telepathically, they know what they are thinking all the time, but then again, they think the same thing as they share the exact same soul.


There are some big issues with the race that they just flat out ignored in the write up of them. There is another big post of it somewhere down on the boards. Myself, I love them- but as written they are unplayable. (not your write up- but just generally).

There are several problems.

1) Melee. They specifically do NOT get two spells cast in a round. Do they get two full attacks? You have to pick one way or the other.

2) How do you adjudicate their ability scores once magical items start becoming involved? If you get a +2 Dex belt and one puts it on.. do they both get +2 dex? Or just one? it sounds easy to enough- just pick one answer or the other.. but if you pick "just one" you now have two separate character sheets that you are tracking: not just two HP totals.

How about gear in general? If one wears full plate does the other get ACF? If one is in full plate +1 and the other wears bracers of armor +1.. what happens? Do they share magical item slots?

The answers have a direct impact on the power and playability of the character.
For example: If they share all slots how do you treat weapons? If one is dual wielding +1 short swords and they share slots.. what happens? (i think obviously- you need weapons for each.. but that also means attack lines for each, and all that).

if they don't share magical item slots then the Dvati PC just became twice as expensive as any other PC in the party. It means you need *double wbl* to remain competitive in whatever it is you are choosing to do.

*my own* personal answers?
1) yes, they get two full attacks. There has to be some bonus to having half-hp. Keep in mind- for single target effects your character essentially has half the HP of any other character in the party.

2) They share item slots. They get one belt, two rings, and all that jazz. Weapons are an exception. A pair of Dvati does not share the weapons or weapon abilities of their twin.

This could still lead to some oddities but nothing you can't handle.
(for example- one twin could get a speed weapon allowing an extra attack while the other didn't) but overall it should work out.

-S


Selgard wrote:

There are several problems.

1) Melee. They specifically do NOT get two spells cast in a round. Do they get two full attacks? You have to pick one way or the other.

2) How do you adjudicate their ability scores once magical items start becoming involved? If you get a +2 Dex belt and one puts it on.. do they both get +2 dex? Or just one? it sounds easy to enough- just pick one answer or the other.. but if you pick "just one" you now have two separate character sheets that you are tracking: not just two HP totals.

How about gear in general? If one wears full plate does the other get ACF? If one is in full plate +1 and the other wears bracers of armor +1.. what happens? Do they share magical item slots?

1) Like I wrote, each twin gets a full round worth of action, much like you said. As for spells, I could come up with a feat (or a racial metamagic feat) that either allows the twins to cast 2 spells in a round, 1 by each twin, or allowing one twin to cast a spell (with a concentration check) while the other does something else.

2) I had in mind that a dvati character share item slots as well, just like you said, expect weapons and armors. Again, I could come up with a feat that allows a dvati to share magic items benefits between both twins simultaneously.


Any other comment ?


While I did like them when I first saw them (I'm pretty sure they were 2nd Ed) I wouldn't let them in a game as a PC playable race. There is just too much potential for disruption in my oppinion; either in the form of abuse, determining rules calls, and accidental death since focusing on one twin will mess with the other.

For example: What happens if one twin is dropped into a different plane? Since most effects can't cross planar boundries this brings up some interesting questions. Is their connection severed due to being on seperate planes? Do they both start dying then? If they don't and one of them gets slowed, is the other too? What about if one gets hit by poison that drops the one's Dex? Since their bodies are seperate only one should be affected and should be going on different initiative orders then. The idea is great, the playability would be too difficult for my tastes.

I'd honestly convert them so that they were indepedent (including the possibility of being different genders) from each other but still strongly linked. This way you could let players willing to work as a team make two seperate characters or have a useful and trustworthy NPC to occasionally back up the PCs. The only other option I could see would be to play a Gestalt game and let a Dvati be two seperate characters rather than one character with a composite class.


Skaorn wrote:
For example: What happens if one twin is dropped into a different plane? Since most effects can't cross planar boundries this brings up some interesting questions. Is their connection severed due to being on seperate planes? Do they both start dying then? If they don't and one of them gets slowed, is the other too? What about if one gets hit by poison that drops the one's Dex? Since their bodies are seperate only one should be affected and should be going on different initiative orders then. The idea is great, the playability would be too difficult for my tastes.

The planar separation... was never mentionned in the books. I assume that it would just disable the mental link they have without killing them, because they could be alive if getting plane-shifted.

As for the rest, here's my reasoning: anything physical affects the twins separately and anything mental affects the twins simultaneously. As such, slow would affect one twin at a time and poison would affect one twin at a time. Charm, however, affects both twins at once.


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JiCi wrote:
The planar separation... was never mentionned in the books. I assume that it would just disable the mental link they have without killing them, because they could be alive if getting plane-shifted.

Huzzah for thread necromancy.

Were I run to a Dvati pair in my game, I'd say that separation of the sort would not be fatal, but would be intrinsically uncomfortable; if you wanted an easy way to represent it mechanically, having each twin sickened while the link was disrupted might be good for those who might abuse it; otherwise, I might leave it as a fluff thing, in the same way some tieflings might be inherently uncomfortable around holy objects or in churches, with no mechanical repercussions.


Daviot wrote:
JiCi wrote:
The planar separation... was never mentionned in the books. I assume that it would just disable the mental link they have without killing them, because they could be alive if getting plane-shifted.

Huzzah for thread necromancy.

Were I run to a Dvati pair in my game, I'd say that separation of the sort would not be fatal, but would be intrinsically uncomfortable; if you wanted an easy way to represent it mechanically, having each twin sickened while the link was disrupted might be good for those who might abuse it; otherwise, I might leave it as a fluff thing, in the same way some tieflings might be inherently uncomfortable around holy objects or in churches, with no mechanical repercussions.

I like the idea of sickening effect... although I would probably go with a mental sickness instead of the usual physical one, but like you said, it wouldn't be fatal, just extremely nerve-wracking.


Actually, planar seperation is mentioned in the Dragon Compendium, it boils down to "they lose their telepathic link and are very discomforted by this (no mechanical penalty), most try to reconnect as quickly as possible"


Their Body: "A dvati character is actually two separate dvati twins who share a soul. These two creatures move and act separately..." It goes on to say that they are exactly the same character class with the exact same build but their hit die is split between them when it comes to HP which means all other bonuses are added in to each twin. It also states they are a single PC so they have to spend double the gold to be equipped and they get only a single share of gold as well as XP since they are one character but two bodies. Because they are two different bodies, they get individual attacks and moves just like two different people. Because of this, I personally would give them a -2 to their Constitution because overall, they'd have more HP combined than a non-dvati would have. Example: A 1st-LvL Dvati Fighter with a 13 Con would have 6 HP (12 combined) and a Human Fighter would only have 11 HP. The higher the Con, the bigger the difference. Then you add in the possibility of toughness and psionic body feats and then class level if you go with your HP instead of skill points every level.

Now, because of this -2 to Con, they'd get a different ability score package. I'd suggest standard because "While dvati enjoy intellectual pursuits, they are capable warriors and hard workers. They consider archery, fencing, and similar combat talents art forms worthy of study." That means they should get a +2 Dexterity and +2 Intelligence.

On top of that, their Personality entry says: Dvati are typically serene, intellectually energetic, and curious. They tend to avoid conflict and are well suited to a role of peacemaker or diplomat. When faced with two sides in conflict, a dvati splits his twins. Each twin speaks from one side, finds areas of agreement with the other, smoothes over disagreements, and brings the two sides together..." I'd suggest giving them either skill focus (Diplomacy) as a racial feat or just a racial +2 to their diplomacy. However, giving them Diplomacy as a racial/class skill isn't without reason because of this.

My personal preference would just be giving them Skill Focus to the diplomacy skill. This is because of their outlook on things as said in the second paragraph of their personality entry "Dvati have a strong sense of duality in all things. They excel at seeing both sides of an argument. When faced with a problem, a dvati is likely to spend time considering multiple approaches from different angles. A dvati who must move a boulder that blocks a cave stands in front of it and surveys the scene. Meanwhile, the other twin climbs above the stone, looks at the stone from above, and considers the same problem. To dvati, one perspective is never enough." Which, personally, I'd give them the ability to reroll failed skill checks once as long as the skill check can have a second perspective to it such as an escape artist check if they are individually tied up with rope.

Their Mind: Right from the Dragon Compendium about their Psychic Link "The dvati twins have an innate, powerful psychic connection. They can communicate via telepathy at an unlimited range and across the planes. A twin cannot perceive what his other sees, hears, or otherwise perceives. As a full-round action, a dvati twin can determine his twin's current hit points and mental state. If one twin is on the same plane as the other, the twin learns the relative direction and distance to his partner." This means there is no limit to their mental connection when it comes to communication. This means, with a proper communication to the party, the local planar expert can determine which plane the other dvati twin is on.

With magic items, sensibly, they each individually are affected by whatever they are wearing. That means if one is wearing a magic item that gives them a +2 Charisma, only that one is affected.

With armor, if they are a spellcasting class and one is wearing heavy and the other isn't, the one wearing the heavy armor would get the arcane spell failure chance, not both.

Governing their favored class as a bard in 3.5, I'd suggest giving them a +1/6 uses of Bardic Performance for dvati bards.

Possible Racial Feats
-Some sort of ability that allows half the dvati to cast a spell.
--Which would be the prerequisite of allowing half a dvati to maintain control of the spell or concentration effects as actions would disrupt the concentration.
-Possible ability to aid their twin with skill actions as long as they have skill focus with the skill or have to take this feat for each individual skill and must have skill focus in that skill before taking this feat for that skill.
-If you keep the Echo Attack, they could have a feat that turns the benefit into 1d6-1 sonic damage that bypasses hardness and in turn causes them to be exhausted when used in this way but can only be used once per day per number of times this feat is taken.
--Which could lead to them being able to take a feat that makes them fatigued but they'd have to be level 5 and requires the sonic damage feat to be taken twice.
---Then they could take a feat that causes them to be unaffected by the echo attack when using it as a sonic attack but requires them to be level 11 and have the sonic damage feat taken 4 times.

I think I've caught all that's needed.

Note: I made this comment while using the "Dvati" entry in the "Dragon Compendium."


Niokuma wrote:
Because of this, I personally would give them a -2 to their Constitution because overall, they'd have more HP combined than a non-dvati would have. Example: A 1st-LvL Dvati Fighter with a 13 Con would have 6 HP (12 combined) and a Human Fighter would only have 11 HP. The higher the Con, the bigger the difference.

That...seems to be derived from a simple difference in rounding. Not that big a deal. Consider a dvati fighter with 18 Con—that gives than 7 HP each (14 combined), versus the human fighter with 14 HP.

Half HP is a huge disadvantage. It balances the race and maybe even tips them into being, well, really rough on the player.

The dvati's big strengths would be melee and teamwork feats, I'm guessing. Maybe with levels in monk or rogue, to try to, well, survive.

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