Creative Director
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Just a quick aside. Does anyone know if the "iconics" from Savage Tide were ever statted out?
Not really.
I did end up playing the cleric as my character in Erik's Age of Worms game—Tyralandi Scrimm. That's pretty much it—we never did print stats for any of the characters or even give them names.
Hm, I thought the parameters were that they iconics would have to use their iconic look. Putting Valeros in Mithral Full Plate seems to go against that.
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Hm, I thought the parameters were that they iconics would have to use their iconic look. Putting Valeros in Mithral Full Plate seems to go against that.
James sort of said we could do whatever, but I think there's an unwritten desire to just "improve" (quotes because these boards have shown me much is subjective, even math) the concept the iconic already strives for.
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Just a quick aside. Does anyone know if the "iconics" from Savage Tide were ever statted out?Not really.
I did end up playing the cleric as my character in Erik's Age of Worms game—Tyralandi Scrimm. That's pretty much it—we never did print stats for any of the characters or even give them names.
Quick aside, I've been converting Maure Castle to our houserules, and I'm not entirely sure I want to inflict Yug-Anark on whomever goes through the thing now. I fear my love of this NPC has caused me to over-optimize her.
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Hm, I thought the parameters were that they iconics would have to use their iconic look. Putting Valeros in Mithral Full Plate seems to go against that.James sort of said we could do whatever, but I think there's an unwritten desire to just "improve" (quotes because these boards have shown me much is subjective, even math) the concept the iconic already strives for.
Unfortunately, anybody who desires them to be more viable (italics because these boards have shown me much is objective, even being a jerk) shouldn't get their hopes up, because they're gone from Carrion Crown on :)
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Unfortunately, anybody who desires them to be more viable (italics because these boards have shown me much is objective, even being a jerk) shouldn't get their hopes up, because they're gone from Carrion Crown on :)Hm, I thought the parameters were that they iconics would have to use their iconic look. Putting Valeros in Mithral Full Plate seems to go against that.James sort of said we could do whatever, but I think there's an unwritten desire to just "improve" (quotes because these boards have shown me much is subjective, even math) the concept the iconic already strives for.
Actually, to be honest, I'm glad they're going to be gone. Use those pages for something actually useful.
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Unfortunately, anybody who desires them to be more viable (italics because these boards have shown me much is objective, even being a jerk) shouldn't get their hopes up, because they're gone from Carrion Crown on :)Hm, I thought the parameters were that they iconics would have to use their iconic look. Putting Valeros in Mithral Full Plate seems to go against that.James sort of said we could do whatever, but I think there's an unwritten desire to just "improve" (quotes because these boards have shown me much is subjective, even math) the concept the iconic already strives for.Actually, to be honest, I'm glad they're going to be gone. Use those pages for something actually useful.
+1 - I have a burning desire for the APs to be purged out of anything that isn't the adventure itself, bestiary or a support article.
Set Pieces - ACCOMPLISHED
Pregens - ACCOMPLISHED
Fiction - WANTED DEAD OR DEAD
I couldn't disagree with you more... but that seems to be par for the course.I don't think Valeros meets ANY definition of "iconic" then.We provided stats for the iconics because folks back in the day wanted to know what those characters are like. They're not meant to be the pinacles of their classes... that's hardly an "iconic," that's a perfectionist. Iconic, in a certain sense of the word, is a synonym to "average."
I imagine we wouldn't have this thread if the "iconic" was either the "average" for the class or the pinnacle that people look up to (like the "iconic" superhero Superman).
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Most fighters having weak will saves is not uncommon knowledge in the gameworld. Even published AP, and modules suggest that certain monsters will target saves of certain classes if they know what they are. It is not hard to tell who is what by their equipment. Paladins and fighters look to be similar, but the fighter has no holy symbol, and most people don't disguise themselves as other classes so that is an edge case.Unless the GM is doing some serious metagaming, I seriously doubt he's always going to target Valeros because of his terribad Will save.
Sometimes the enemies ARE idiots, btw.
Which is stupidly metagame in the "game world" I actually get sick and tired of people arguing that intelligent casters will know to target a martial character with spells. It's such a ludicrous case of DM metagaming and assuming the world will too. The statement made in bold is especially ludicrous. In a world where the gods are known to exist and can be comunicated with directly and the technological level is low, almost everyone will have holy symbols. Especially in a world where undead exist making superstitiously carrying a holy symbol even MORE important. Then there are people who will just be more religious than others. A holy symbol is absolutely no indication of class whatsoever. Or do you go about your daily business assuming that everyone you see wearing a cross or a star of David is a priest/rabbi? If you saw a security guard wearing a rosary would you assume he guards a church? Yeesh people really make a habit of making their game worlds ludicrously more black and white and metagamey than any real world situation ever.
And I'm not saying that there wouldn't be guys who would target a martial character with a will save, in the same way that I'm sure that there are cops who racially profile. but I'm pretty sure that part of a wizards training would probably include putting him in scenarios where he would think to do just that and watching it fail where in the real world he would be dead. Because there are lots of ways in which a martially trained person (because remember classes don't actually exist) can have a high will save.
Hell from what it sounds like all a mageslayer really has to do is have a decent will save and 90% of mages will be dead before they get a chance to do anything because their first actions are always aparently, he wields a sword and doesn't carry a holy symbol, break out the will saves.
Hey Bob, I can see you did a lot of work on the write-up, but you can't include the effections of potions and oils in a permanent stat-block.
He has DR 10/adamantine when he's got the time to put the Stone Salve on, not all the time. Plus, that stuff costs 4000 gp per usage...that's INSANELY expensive (one ounce = +2 armor??)
===Aelryinth
Adjusted Stats at level 1
Str:17 Dex:14 Con:13 Int:10 Cha:8 Wis:12
All Favored Class bonuses to hit points.
HP: 10 + 5.5/level, + (Con Bonus +1)/level
Skills: 3/level: Jump, Intimidate, Climb.Feats:
Feats by level:
0) Trait: Jaded, Courageous (+4 to Fear Saves)
1) Improved Initiative, TWF, Country Born (remove exhaust/fatigue, +1 Will)
Not a legal build unless TWF has been changed to only require Dex:13 or so.
Simply put given an elite array you have to invest a 15 in Dex unless you have a funky class ability like the ranger.
So at a minimum you'd need to change the stat line to the following:
Str: 16
Dex: 15
Con: 13
Int: 10
Wis: 12 (I seriously debate this given the fact that Valeros is a drunken lech with the common sense of a turnip but this is your build)
Cha: 8
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Most fighters having weak will saves is not uncommon knowledge in the gameworld. Even published AP, and modules suggest that certain monsters will target saves of certain classes if they know what they are. It is not hard to tell who is what by their equipment. Paladins and fighters look to be similar, but the fighter has no holy symbol, and most people don't disguise themselves as other classes so that is an edge case.Unless the GM is doing some serious metagaming, I seriously doubt he's always going to target Valeros because of his terribad Will save.
Sometimes the enemies ARE idiots, btw.
Which is stupidly metagame in the "game world" I actually get sick and tired of people arguing that intelligent casters will know to target a martial character with spells. It's such a ludicrous case of DM metagaming and assuming the world will too. The statement made in bold is especially ludicrous. In a world where the gods are known to exist and can be comunicated with directly and the technological level is low, almost everyone will have holy symbols. Especially in a world where undead exist making superstitiously carrying a holy symbol even MORE important. Then there are people who will just be more religious than others. A holy symbol is absolutely no indication of class whatsoever. Or do you go about your daily business assuming that everyone you see wearing a cross or a star of David is a priest/rabbi? If you saw a security guard wearing a rosary would you assume he guards a church? Yeesh people really make a habit of making their game worlds ludicrously more black and white and metagamey than any real world situation ever.
And I'm not saying that there wouldn't be guys who would target a martial character with a will save, in the same way that I'm sure that there are cops who racially profile. but I'm pretty sure that part of a wizards training would probably include putting him in scenarios where he would think to do just that and watching...
I have to agree, I've only played a handful of characters that weren't religious or superstitious, all the rest at least sprung a few silver for several holy symbols (think the dude from the Mummy) "just in case" (I play a lot of rogues). Well, unless they were clerics or paladins, then just the one.
I think it would be less metagmaey if the wizard would target the Paladin with a will spell (he could just be a knight putting on airs) once in a while, if you're going to play like that. Or anyone in armor who isn't obviously a priest of some sort.
But, you have to target someone, and some process needs to go down. Wizards are intelligent, tend to be good at pattern recognition (I assume in my game, the higher a stat number, the more aspects that reflect that stat are present), and are going to know some types of people are more resistant (and they'll know, for the most part they're people who can use magic - perhaps it's known that being able to wield magic makes people more resistant to mind magic), but they would throw whatever at mundane types willy nilly until or unless they revealed themselves to be something other than the obvious (like a paladin who doesn't flaunt it).
But there has to be some correlation from mechanics to setting, as those patterns would exist in some way the people would notice. I mean, we are talking Sherlock Holmes/Moriarity levels of intelligence in these wizards, and those two could tell you what you had for brunch six weeks ago just by the way you cock your thumb when hitchhiking.
So, there has to be an allowance for that, I just think the thought process works in the other direction. Everyone with a sword and armor is a fighting man until he proves to be more.
Here's what I came up with. He should be able to hold his own against the target numbers in the Bestiary. As part of a team of 4, then he has an even better chance. As he levels things get easier and easier for him. I couldn't even figure out what I wanted to spend his extra money on. So here he is for everyone to criticize ;)
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...
Not too shabby. I think the only thing I might do differently is buy a flying item. Not sure exactly what I'd swap out though, I'd have to reflect on that.
Edit: never mind, just saw the figurine.
Thanks. I did buy it late in his career though. I meant to buy it earlier and simply forgot. I did make sure he at least had a useful ranged weapon for those times when he can't get close.
Hey Bob, I can see you did a lot of work on the write-up, but you can't include the effections of potions and oils in a permanent stat-block.
He has DR 10/adamantine when he's got the time to put the Stone Salve on, not all the time. Plus, that stuff costs 4000 gp per usage...that's INSANELY expensive (one ounce = +2 armor??)
===Aelryinth
Did I leave that turned on? Oops. My bad. I was looking to see how things would look when I activated the items. I must have forgot to turn them off. The potions of enlarge and heroism are affordable enough to have a few.
Adjusted Stats at level 1
Str:17 Dex:14 Con:13 Int:10 Cha:8 Wis:12
All Favored Class bonuses to hit points.
HP: 10 + 5.5/level, + (Con Bonus +1)/level
Skills: 3/level: Jump, Intimidate, Climb.Feats:
Feats by level:
0) Trait: Jaded, Courageous (+4 to Fear Saves)
1) Improved Initiative, TWF, Country Born (remove exhaust/fatigue, +1 Will)Not a legal build unless TWF has been changed to only require Dex:13 or so.
Simply put given an elite array you have to invest a 15 in Dex unless you have a funky class ability like the ranger.
So at a minimum you'd need to change the stat line to the following:
Str: 16
Dex: 15
Con: 13
Int: 10
Wis: 12 (I seriously debate this given the fact that Valeros is a drunken lech with the common sense of a turnip but this is your build)
Cha: 8
Damn stat pre-reqs! Nice catch. Wondered why Paizo started him with a 15 Dex...now I know.
Wis 12 just means he's a little bull headed. You can be a drunken lech with an 18 Wis...you know what you like, and damn what anybody says about it! What Valeros doesn't strike me as is particularly smart or socially graceful (the pics and notes about him all seem to agree). He is jaded and experienced, which tie into Wis.
==Aelryinth