Actually they mention in the Wolf Clan sourcebook that after the Trial of Annihilation there were less Wolverine casualties then expected. Also, Wolverine bloodlines occasionally popped up in the other clans like the Jade Falcons and were exterminated when they were found. But that does leave a possibility that there are survivors hidden inside the Clans themselves and there is still the mystery of the Minnesota Tribe.Star Captain Fletcher gets shot from behind by his subordinate who drops a Wolverine pin on his body.As they are dead, nope. . The star captain is from 3055, from the books published at that time..that not named is dead and has not been retconed to be wob. The dead can not do anything...get your fantasy out of my sci-fi damn it.
Yes, but nothing written before ever put them in comstar, hell the comstar stuff written before made it clear they had no clue where the clans where or what they were. The Not named left and would have new all that data..all of it.
And the MT last was seen headed away from the IS not to it and the clans DNA tested everyone, even comstar. Pure retcon, nothing more.
I would be ok with that, just they use em so oddly and in ways that do not fit. Hell em being in the deep black as another culture is cool. Just working them into the current boogy men took alot of retcons and does not wash
|
That said it would be awesome to see new stuff for Greyhawk, Planescape and Birthright using the Pathfinder RPG rules.
I started salivating when I read that sentence but hey... then I thought: why? I have 23 years of gaming done already and do *I* want to replay along the same themes OVER and OVER again, as awesome as they once were?
Bestiary 2 is just out of the gates, with brand new planar concepts/creatures, and I for one, at this stage, would love a planar-themed ADVENTURE PATH set in Golarion's GREAT BEYOND.
Call it: "At The Gates Of Pharasma" if you want. Go ahead. It's a great AP name or at least a Chapter 1 title for such an AP. Go Paizo. Use my idea at will, for free, no "Thanks to PDK" even required. All the thanks I need is you guys breathing some life into your new planar critters and DM/play in an AP that sees all your new cosmological dynasties clash, with the PCs in the middle!!!!! YEAAAAH!! HUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZAHHHHHH!!!!
(feeling ashamed at this outburst, but feeling good nonetheless... :P)
|
That said it would be awesome to see new stuff for Greyhawk, Planescape and Birthright using the Pathfinder RPG rules.I started salivating when I read that sentence but hey... then I thought: why? I have 23 years of gaming done already and do *I* want to replay along the same themes OVER and OVER again, as awesome as they once were?
I think that I would be excited to see Pathfinder support for those setting and Mystara because I have not exhausted the ideas for those themes. As I looked through Bestiary 2 I was thinking, I could use that in Greyhawk, and that in Mystara, etc. However the setting I would love to see Paizo support for is the Scarred Lands.
To directly address the OP.
1. I doubt that Hasbro would let go of a brand name that has as much name recognition as Dungeons and Dragons. They may not be happy with it performance as a roleplaying game, but they know it has name recognition.
Years ago in PC Gamer magazine, there was an article about the "new at the time" games D&D Online, the Eberron RTS game, and Demonstone. The discussion with a Hasbro executive in the article pointed out that Hasbro knows D&D has recognition, but said that Hasbro wanted to move D&D from a roleplaying game to a brand, and part of that strategy (at the time) was to put out non-RP video games under the D&D brand.
While they may not have been able to capitalize on that name recognition yet, I doubt they have given up on the concept. Transformers and G.I. Joe have both had slow times where Hasbro tried and failed to get new incarnations to catch hold, only to bide their time until they flared up in popularity again with a successful new marketing strategy.
2. I agree that, in the unlikely instance that the D&D brand would be up for sale, I would not want Paizo to go after said brand. I'd rather have Pathfinder be its own thing and stand on its own two feet, and honestly, there is as much baggage as nostalgia that comes with the entirety of the D&D brand.
2. I agree that, in the unlikely instance that the D&D brand would be up for sale, I would not want Paizo to go after said brand. I'd rather have Pathfinder be its own thing and stand on its own two feet, and honestly, there is as much baggage as nostalgia that comes with the entirety of the D&D brand.
In the unrealistic scenario where Paizo had the options and means to purchase the D&D brand and IP, I would agree with you that I don't want Pathfinder to be diluted, nor do I want it melded.
I'd like to see Paizo, or another RPG company with a good reputation and without a non-RPG management structure over that company (as current) purchase and shepherd the brand. It would be nice to see the brand answer only to the RPG group.
An annual release under the D&D brand would be fantastic - a campaign setting, something.
|
|
2. I agree that, in the unlikely instance that the D&D brand would be up for sale, I would not want Paizo to go after said brand. I'd rather have Pathfinder be its own thing and stand on its own two feet, and honestly, there is as much baggage as nostalgia that comes with the entirety of the D&D brand.
Yeah, it's like you've just been through a horrible divorce (cough - spellplague - cough) and now a buddy comes in and asks you "Would you like to do a threesome with your ex-wife and me?"
Yay! you already hate your ex-wife and now you must deal with the sudden visualization of your naked buddy with your ex-wife. The third visualization of you thrown into the mix is too horrible for most to cope I think...
All in how good the ex wives booty was. The threesome might be fun after all, tastes do vary
So when do you think Paizo will be able to start publishing new Mystara products? That is my wish, hope, and dream.Wasn't Mystara the setting they made the side-scrolling 'Beat-em-up' in?
It's also the setting that made sense whatsoever...
It's also the setting that made sense whatsoever...
I guess you forgot a "no" in that sentence - so here you are: NO.
Indeed, Mystara had not much internal logic to it - a magical empire with the imperial council consisting of no less than 1000 magic-users of Level 36, and smaller countries in which you would not find anybody above level 15 or so. Different technological levels side to side, different cliched real-live cultures put whereever the desigers wanted (arabian desert adjacent to viking lands) and so on. But hey, it was fun somehow, probably due to nostalgia.
Stefan
It's also the setting that made sense whatsoever...I guess you forgot a "no" in that sentence - so here you are: NO.
Indeed, Mystara had not much internal logic to it - a magical empire with the imperial council consisting of no less than 1000 magic-users of Level 36, and smaller countries in which you would not find anybody above level 15 or so. Different technological levels side to side, different cliched real-live cultures put whereever the desigers wanted (arabian desert adjacent to viking lands) and so on. But hey, it was fun somehow, probably due to nostalgia.
Stefan
Aha, the irony of my post making no sense whatsoever.
I liked all the individual countries (well except Ierendi which was just crap) but someone really should have put some effort into making them fit together better.
I liked all the individual countries (well except Ierendi which was just crap) but someone really should have put some effort into making them fit together better.
Pretty much so. There were cool ideas within the books, but it seems that they were not coordinated too much.
I removed some posts. Friends don't let friends post angry.
I removed some posts. Friends don't let friends post angry.
Ross, it is your day off!! ;)
|
|
It was. It was also the original D&D setting. I loved the setting.Blackmoor and Greyhawk both predate Mystara (Which was a hodge-podge world thrown together to set some modules in). It's not a bad place, just not as old as the others (1972, IIRC).
-Uriel
Sorry. I am clearly not thinking clearly. Although Blackmoor was later retconed to be Mystara in the past.
|
|
It's also the setting that made sense whatsoever...I guess you forgot a "no" in that sentence - so here you are: NO.
Indeed, Mystara had not much internal logic to it - a magical empire with the imperial council consisting of no less than 1000 magic-users of Level 36, and smaller countries in which you would not find anybody above level 15 or so. Different technological levels side to side, different cliched real-live cultures put whereever the desigers wanted (arabian desert adjacent to viking lands) and so on. But hey, it was fun somehow, probably due to nostalgia.
Stefan
Internal consistancy is over rated.
Indeed!
back in the old times you didn't wonder where the Goblins crap just as you do not wonder that Conans undewear must itch like living hell.
Indeed!
back in the old times you didn't wonder where the Goblins crap just as you do not wonder that Conans undewear must itch like living hell.
Trouble is it wasn't so much as where do goblins crap as why is there a large area of wilderness where the most powerful creature is a vampire with a 200 mile land border with the 1000 year-old, most powerful empire on the continent
An annual release under the D&D brand would be fantastic - a campaign setting, something.They do that now. They just call them new editions, or rather 'Essentials'.
Either that or pity sex for old times sake with your ex-wife.
Not in my example of a never-going-to-happen-Paizo-owning-the-D&D-brand fantasy world.
Sorry if it wasn't clear that I was referring to the above.
Quite simply for me, pathfinder (paizo) is doing all the right things, releasing good quality products and supporting their lines in a myriad of ways.
If the D&D brand is in such trouble, I would not want Paizo to pick it up. It can stand on its own two feet now and does not need a supporting leg from a once grand name.
|
|
Trouble is it wasn't so much as where do goblins crap as why is there a large area of wilderness where the most powerful creature is a vampire with a 200 mile land border with the 1000 year-old, most powerful empire on the continentIndeed!
back in the old times you didn't wonder where the Goblins crap just as you do not wonder that Conans undewear must itch like living hell.
Because it was cool? Seriously though, if you are referring to Karamenkos then that had to do with politics. The ruler of the kingdom was once a minor noble who traded the emperor some things he desired but under imperial law could not get for rulership of this troublesome border region and a promise of autonomy. It worked out for the empire because the new nation also allowed for immigration of some of the excess population to the region as part of that same deal.
|
|
Quite simply for me, pathfinder (paizo) is doing all the right things, releasing good quality products and supporting their lines in a myriad of ways.
If the D&D brand is in such trouble, I would not want Paizo to pick it up. It can stand on its own two feet now and does not need a supporting leg from a once grand name.
Since you put it that way. ;-) However, all kidding aside Dracon has a point. If D&D is unprofitable and an albatross around the neck of WotC/Hasbro then why would Paizo want it? Why would the want a license that one of the largest toy/hobby companies in the world could not make profitable? It would be a bad business decision and might likely spell the end of Paizo.
|
An annual release under the D&D brand would be fantastic - a campaign setting, something.They do that now. They just call them new editions, or rather 'Essentials'.
Either that or pity sex for old times sake with your ex-wife.
Not in my example of a never-going-to-happen-Paizo-owning-the-D&D-brand fantasy world.
Sorry if it wasn't clear that I was referring to the above.
Sorry, I got sarcastic and turned into a Troll. It's fixed now. I cast Polymorph (2nd Ed D&D version) now I turned into a sparkly vampire who stalks teenage girls.
All the Best,
Kerney
Since you put it that way. ;-) However, all kidding aside Dracon has a point. If D&D is unprofitable and an albatross around the neck of WotC/Hasbro then why would Paizo want it? Why would the want a license that one of the largest toy/hobby companies in the world could not make profitable? It would be a bad business decision and might likely spell the end of Paizo.Quite simply for me, pathfinder (paizo) is doing all the right things, releasing good quality products and supporting their lines in a myriad of ways.
If the D&D brand is in such trouble, I would not want Paizo to pick it up. It can stand on its own two feet now and does not need a supporting leg from a once grand name.
License = bad.
Ownership of brand = neutral/good.
License = bad.
Ownership of brand = neutral/good.
Purchasing said brand = horribly expensive proposition that tiny publishing company can't pony up for to meet a mega-conglomerate's price.
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
|
Looking over this poor, poor thread, one question springs to mind:
What would Paizo gain by licensing D&D? According to industy reports, acedotal, but reliable, Pathfinder is doing pretty darn well. They'd have to pony up a lot of cash, abide by someone else's strictures and gain a name that they've already proven they don't need. Yeah, they get access to a few closed content critters, but guys, I can't be alone in saying I don't miss 'em one bit.
D&D has a lot of history, but it also comes with a lot of baggage. Let's let someone else play in that game for a while and enjoy the Little Game System What Could, Pathfinder.
Praise to Dancey for the OGL.
|
|
Looking over this poor, poor thread, one question springs to mind:
What would Paizo gain by licensing D&D? According to industy reports, acedotal, but reliable, Pathfinder is doing pretty darn well. They'd have to pony up a lot of cash, abide by someone else's strictures and gain a name that they've already proven they don't need. Yeah, they get access to a few closed content critters, but guys, I can't be alone in saying I don't miss 'em one bit.
D&D has a lot of history, but it also comes with a lot of baggage. Let's let someone else play in that game for a while and enjoy the Little Game System What Could, Pathfinder.
I think the idea is that DnD would gain, rather than Paizo.
A lot of people have a lot of emotions tied to dnd: first rpg, loads of gaming experiences, watching it develop, ups and downs.
Part of the appeal of Pathfinder for me is that it feels like the spiritual successor of dnd, even if the name is slapped on a different rpg.
So, the idea of the dnd name and all of the associated IP being steered by a fantastic company like Paizo is appealing. Calling it PathfinderDnD and playing around with beholders, mind flayers, planescape and suchlike is something that would tickle my nostalgia-gland.
It won't happen, but it's a lovely dream.
|
where do you live that target carries roleplaying games in store?
I'm in the Southern Indiana/ Louisville Kentucky area and as I posted a few pages back, I actually bought a Red Box at Wal-mart when it came out. I still see it up front with the M:tg cards and I have also seen it in the area where you find boards games or over where they keep the Chris Angel Mindfreak learn magic sets.
As for Target they keep the Red Box and the D&D Minis up front with the CCGs as well. Plus, the last time I looked, if you get the Red Box at Target the box has an instant coupon attached to the front so you can get a free box of D&D Minis with your purchase.
I have not seen the Essentials books in Wal-mart or Target, but since I gave up on 4e I haven't really looked for them in stores.
The demise or failure of 4E will be due to management and/or marketing of the product versus the system itself. In addition, I would hate to see the day when there is only one source for D&D, because competition brings on innovation. The OGL is a curse or blessing in regards to the above.
D&D and pathfinder already has enough presence and dominance in the market, to make it difficult for a new third party product to become popular, even if they use an entirely different system/mechanic.
If you have one D&D producer, you will repeat the days of 3.5, before it reached it's bubble.
As always, time will tell, but I would find it rather amusing if Hasbro/Wizards took the same OGL, and copied from Pathfinder. But I don't think that is the real strength of Pathfinder, as the adventures are the bread and butter and keeps people coming back.
Book stores don't count. They already had a number of at least D&D books for years. Every find any D&D books or miniatures in Target or Wal-Mart? Anywhere?And even being owned by Habro, D&D stuff isn't getting into big box stores. Not in any notable quantity at least.Sure it is. Next time you go to Target, Borders, or Barnes & Noble, look for the Essentials line.I have a personal policy of not setting foot inside a Wal-Mart, so I can't answer that. But, yes, you can find it at Target.
Now, why don't Borders and Barnes & Noble count? They are the definition of "Big Box" when it comes to books and games. They are an enormous player in the hobby game industry, even if their staff has no idea. I can point to numerous games that sold incredibly well in my store until one day appearing at one of those stores. At that very moment, sales on that product stopped being "automatic" and we had to start competing.
Wait, you boycott WalMart but WILL shop at Target?!?! Why? (I'll shop at both, a deal is a deal, but except for a more pretentious attitude, around here, Target is just a more expensive wal mart...)
Wait, you boycott WalMart but WILL shop at Target?!?! Why? (I'll shop at both, a deal is a deal, but except for a more pretentious attitude, around here, Target is just a more expensive wal mart...)Book stores don't count. They already had a number of at least D&D books for years. Every find any D&D books or miniatures in Target or Wal-Mart? Anywhere?And even being owned by Habro, D&D stuff isn't getting into big box stores. Not in any notable quantity at least.Sure it is. Next time you go to Target, Borders, or Barnes & Noble, look for the Essentials line.I have a personal policy of not setting foot inside a Wal-Mart, so I can't answer that. But, yes, you can find it at Target.
Now, why don't Borders and Barnes & Noble count? They are the definition of "Big Box" when it comes to books and games. They are an enormous player in the hobby game industry, even if their staff has no idea. I can point to numerous games that sold incredibly well in my store until one day appearing at one of those stores. At that very moment, sales on that product stopped being "automatic" and we had to start competing.
I have to agree. I'm not excited about funding China's military, but if it helps me save money so I have a 401k, I will shop with the EDLP! Plus Wal-mart pays me so I can't say no to a 10% discount on almost everything they sell (fishing supplies, pens, paper, snacks, a television when I save up for it). And sometimes Target actually beats them, or some other outlet around here.
Wait, you boycott WalMart but WILL shop at Target?!?! Why? (I'll shop at both, a deal is a deal, but except for a more pretentious attitude, around here, Target is just a more expensive wal mart...)Book stores don't count. They already had a number of at least D&D books for years. Every find any D&D books or miniatures in Target or Wal-Mart? Anywhere?And even being owned by Habro, D&D stuff isn't getting into big box stores. Not in any notable quantity at least.Sure it is. Next time you go to Target, Borders, or Barnes & Noble, look for the Essentials line.I have a personal policy of not setting foot inside a Wal-Mart, so I can't answer that. But, yes, you can find it at Target.
Now, why don't Borders and Barnes & Noble count? They are the definition of "Big Box" when it comes to books and games. They are an enormous player in the hobby game industry, even if their staff has no idea. I can point to numerous games that sold incredibly well in my store until one day appearing at one of those stores. At that very moment, sales on that product stopped being "automatic" and we had to start competing.
And doesn't have 15-20 minute check-out lines at off-hours.
Aside: Their Archer Farms brand is pretty good.
If I were Paizo, and I could buy (<i>not</i> license) the D&D IP at a reasonable price, sure, I would.
In that case, the way I'd do things is:
1) Rename the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game "Dungeons & Dragons". The other "Pathfinder" products would retain the old names. Reprints of Roleplaying Game material would use the new branding and maybe have a new introduction, but be fundamentally unchanged.
2) Write a D&D System Trademark License for indicating compatibility with what is now the "Dungeons & Dragons Reference Document". Include a bunch of not-in-ToH classic monsters in the Bestiary 3 and the next update of the "D&D RD".
3) Sell off any game worlds that came with the purchase. Licensing them out (except certain bits of cross-licensing associated with the sale) would be a hassle; developing them in-house would require too-rapid transformation of the business. But I'm sure I can find buyers for all of them.
4) Sell the 4th Edition rules, minus the D&D name, to somebody interested in supporting that system. They can do for 4th what Paizo has done for 3rd.
5) Put the entire back-catalog of classic PDFs up for sale again; see if I can arrange POD sales.
The demise or failure of 4E will be due to management and/or marketing of the product versus the system itself...
Exactly!
I remember picking up the first 4e adventure module - it was total and utter crap galore!
I also remembered being disappointed after the announcement by Paizo that they wouldn't do 4e stuff because I thought (and still think) that Paizo Adventures with 4e rules would still rock.